"Waqui;c-2200060" wrote:"Nikoms565;c-2199956" wrote:"Waqui;c-2199893" wrote:
Why did the rewards structure suddenly become unfair just because (one or many) players can now solo the raid? If the structure was fair before why not after? Players have been "screwed out of (top-10) rewards" ( @Mugz722' words) for years. Why is that suddenly a problem now that players can solo the raid?
In guilds where many players solo the raid every time (raid after raid) the rewards get distributed more evenly since in case of ties the order is random. Why is that unfair? And how exactly would "evening out" the rewards be any different (other than allowing players to score zero/low and still receive OK rewards)?
Yes, more total rewards would be nice for your guild. Agreed. But what's the reasoning behind your request?
It wasn't fair before. That's actually the bigger point. Many more non "tip of the spear" guilds are just realizing now. That said, the real issue is the (now) mutli-layered gear crunch that CG has engineered through added gear levels and their respective recipes (many g12+ pieces not only require "HSith gear", but gear from earlier bottleneck points - carbanti, stun guns, cuffs, etc.)
The complaints about raid rewards really just stem from the fact that raids, relatively speaking, are throwing scraps to anyone outside of the top 10 (HSith most especially). That simply is resulting in gear-starved players fighting ravenously over the scraps that drop.
Yes, but why now? The fact that more and more players are now able to solo the raid actually solves this issue. What's the issue now? The only issue I see now is, that the players who used to have the whole cake now have to share it with their fellow guild members.
"Waqui;c-2200060" wrote:"Nikoms565;c-2199956" wrote:"Waqui;c-2199893" wrote:
Why did the rewards structure suddenly become unfair just because (one or many) players can now solo the raid? If the structure was fair before why not after? Players have been "screwed out of (top-10) rewards" ( @Mugz722' words) for years. Why is that suddenly a problem now that players can solo the raid?
In guilds where many players solo the raid every time (raid after raid) the rewards get distributed more evenly since in case of ties the order is random. Why is that unfair? And how exactly would "evening out" the rewards be any different (other than allowing players to score zero/low and still receive OK rewards)?
Yes, more total rewards would be nice for your guild. Agreed. But what's the reasoning behind your request?
It wasn't fair before. That's actually the bigger point. Many more non "tip of the spear" guilds are just realizing now. That said, the real issue is the (now) mutli-layered gear crunch that CG has engineered through added gear levels and their respective recipes (many g12+ pieces not only require "HSith gear", but gear from earlier bottleneck points - carbanti, stun guns, cuffs, etc.)
The complaints about raid rewards really just stem from the fact that raids, relatively speaking, are throwing scraps to anyone outside of the top 10 (HSith most especially). That simply is resulting in gear-starved players fighting ravenously over the scraps that drop.
Yes, but why now? The fact that more and more players are now able to solo the raid actually solves this issue. What's the issue now? The only issue I see now is, that the players who used to have the whole cake now have to share it with their fellow guild members.
"kello_511;c-2200062" wrote:"Waqui;c-2200060" wrote:"Nikoms565;c-2199956" wrote:"Waqui;c-2199893" wrote:
Why did the rewards structure suddenly become unfair just because (one or many) players can now solo the raid? If the structure was fair before why not after? Players have been "screwed out of (top-10) rewards" ( @Mugz722' words) for years. Why is that suddenly a problem now that players can solo the raid?
In guilds where many players solo the raid every time (raid after raid) the rewards get distributed more evenly since in case of ties the order is random. Why is that unfair? And how exactly would "evening out" the rewards be any different (other than allowing players to score zero/low and still receive OK rewards)?
Yes, more total rewards would be nice for your guild. Agreed. But what's the reasoning behind your request?
It wasn't fair before. That's actually the bigger point. Many more non "tip of the spear" guilds are just realizing now. That said, the real issue is the (now) mutli-layered gear crunch that CG has engineered through added gear levels and their respective recipes (many g12+ pieces not only require "HSith gear", but gear from earlier bottleneck points - carbanti, stun guns, cuffs, etc.)
The complaints about raid rewards really just stem from the fact that raids, relatively speaking, are throwing scraps to anyone outside of the top 10 (HSith most especially). That simply is resulting in gear-starved players fighting ravenously over the scraps that drop.
Yes, but why now? The fact that more and more players are now able to solo the raid actually solves this issue. What's the issue now? The only issue I see now is, that the players who used to have the whole cake now have to share it with their fellow guild members.
It’s probably a bit of the opposite as well. People who were formerly relegated to taking low ranks are now able to solo the raid - and feel that their rewards should be improving as a result.
For those players I imagine it feels a bit like a kick in the teeth to solo the raid and still not take top ranks as a result.
"Nikoms565;c-2200108" wrote:"Waqui;c-2200060" wrote:"Nikoms565;c-2199956" wrote:"Waqui;c-2199893" wrote:
Why did the rewards structure suddenly become unfair just because (one or many) players can now solo the raid? If the structure was fair before why not after? Players have been "screwed out of (top-10) rewards" ( @Mugz722' words) for years. Why is that suddenly a problem now that players can solo the raid?
In guilds where many players solo the raid every time (raid after raid) the rewards get distributed more evenly since in case of ties the order is random. Why is that unfair? And how exactly would "evening out" the rewards be any different ?
Yes, more total rewards would be nice for your guild. Agreed. But what's the reasoning behind your request?
It wasn't fair before. That's actually the bigger point. Many more non "tip of the spear" guilds are just realizing now. That said, the real issue is the (now) mutli-layered gear crunch that CG has engineered through added gear levels and their respective recipes (many g12+ pieces not only require "HSith gear", but gear from earlier bottleneck points - carbanti, stun guns, cuffs, etc.)
The complaints about raid rewards really just stem from the fact that raids, relatively speaking, are throwing scraps to anyone outside of the top 10 (HSith most especially). That simply is resulting in gear-starved players fighting ravenously over the scraps that drop.
Yes, but why now? The fact that more and more players are now able to solo the raid actually solves this issue. What's the issue now? The only issue I see now is, that the players who used to have the whole cake now have to share it with their fellow guild members.
Because the players who have had the whole cake to themselves for months and months and months are already very far ahead of their fellow guild members. When a new raid (or new "tier", as apparently the case will be) drops they'll be able to to jump to the top of that heap and reap top rewards sooner as well.
Full disclosure - I'm one of my guild finishing in the top 10 of HSith regularly. I also am one of the people that pointed out this flaw back when CG first changed HSith rewards to be so top heavy.
The rich get richer and the people in the guild that need the rewards to build their roster can never catch those in the guild who are reaping the highest rewards - and , because of the obvious concerns, those with the top rewards can't "donate" that top gear to the lesser players anyway.
Raids are supposed to be a guild accomplishment. Not a competition within the guild. But the reward structure of Hsith has made them the latter, not the former. As I said, I benefit from the poorly designed, top-heavy reward structure - but I can still see it's not a good system.
And before anyone suggests that guilds should rotate solos or stronger players should "lay back" once in a while, or damage or timing caps or any other silly guild guidelines to "help" the situation, I would suggest that it shouldn't be on the guilds and their leadership to attempt to mitigate a poorly designed payout structure for an event that is supposed to be a combined guild effort.
