New players have no chance....

"icanectc;c-1715189" wrote:
While you kinda go on a rant there at the end, you do bring up a good point about scalability. Even MMOs after years of existence allow new players to start at max level provide decent gear etc to help ease the transition. While im not necessarily in the opinion this game is at the point where peeps are heavily outed and needs a buff to get them started one day it could happen. Nothing would prevent a brand new player from farming kotor toons and getting revan immediately before cls jtr chewie etc.

Fact is new players can build squads anyway they want there isn't a specific progression required of them. Though us players artificially create one.

My buddy started playing in October when revan dropped and was in an entirely new shard first place was Phoenix. By Dec there was 20 revans running horrible jedi squads. So I'm not sure we are at the place where new players need help. Cg and ea definitely have metrics that know when people fall off vs stay playing and in willing to bet it's within normal parameters. Otherwise we would see something being done. If anything they are creating more end game content. Proving it's player base is driving them to create this.

I did go on rant which I'm sure didn't help my argument but I'm really passionate about this. I know that if CG doesn't change and keeps on with their current release new players won't have a chance with power creep and everything else unless they sit down with an excel sheet and a guide and basically play somebody else's game just so they have chance once they get to 70+. Your buddy got lucky most of us new players are not. The shard I got dropped in it was nothing to see 4 to 6 zeta full G12 arena teams starting at 800. The 100 of my shard is ungodly and I know I will never get close. I suspect we have a discord mafia but can't prove it so far. My fleet is the same way 7* HT ,Bombers, and the list of newly released 7* ships. I fully admit my ships are lagging behind so I can barely stay above 200. It just reinforces that I didn't get serious until somewhere between lvl 50 & 60. I'm 85 and have spent more money then care to think about and my account is realistically prob a lvl60.

"Liath;c-1715193" wrote:
Where are these irrefutable facts of yours? What data do you have regarding player retention rates and how they have changed over time?

It's all around and you are a blind man if you don't see it. The amount of dead guilds and dead accounts ranging mostly from 40 to 60 is all around. In my alliance alone which has roughly 8 guilds ranging from the hard core to training. We actively try and go out and recruit new players and teach them the ropes and build them up and we have had 2 successes in the last 6 months out of 100s of players. When they quit the answer is almost always the same. They don't want to have to wait 2years or more to fully enjoy the game.

You go to the reviews section in the store and read new player reviews and they all say the same. Great if you want to mess around SW Toons but if you are a competitive gamer prepare to spend years to just get to the competitive level and by that time you are already behind on whatever new thing they have released.

One reviewer wrote I played until level 63 and I advise any serious gamer to stay away. Since I started playing every update is incredibly buggy and almost makes you the gamer feel like you are beta testing their game for them. Power creep is rife in the game and they purposefully bottleneck you on the gear you need which every toon seems to need 2 to 6 of to upgrade while you sit there with literally 1000s of other gear. Unless you have a ton of cash or just want to have some nostalgic fun with some star wars characters. If you want to torture yourself go for it.

There is a lot of reviews just like that one perhaps not as in depth. CG would never release the actual numbers but after STR and these last few months the new to intermediate players are moving on. I mean vets are moving on because of the issues.

"Eddiemundie;c-1715203" wrote:

"Liath;c-1715193" wrote:
Where are these irrefutable facts of yours? What data do you have regarding player retention rates and how they have changed over time?

Well regardless, i think he has a point that it is ridiculously difficult for a new player to catch up.

Even worse is now with traya and revan, if u are in a young shard and didnt buy revan, u are effectively out of the arena. This is unless u had the foresight to rush for traya farm and unlocked her. Even so, it took my alt (started in dec'17) about 10 months to unlock traya with dedicated farming strategies.

Thanks for the support. I foresee it getting far worse since the holiday season is upon us.

"Kyno;c-1715219" wrote:

"Eddiemundie;c-1715203" wrote:

"Liath;c-1715193" wrote:
Where are these irrefutable facts of yours? What data do you have regarding player retention rates and how they have changed over time?

Well regardless, i think he has a point that it is ridiculously difficult for a new player to catch up.

Even worse is now with traya and revan, if u are in a young shard and didnt buy revan, u are effectively out of the arena. This is unless u had the foresight to rush for traya farm and unlocked her. Even so, it took my alt (started in dec'17) about 10 months to unlock traya with dedicated farming strategies.

But who do they have to catch up to?

They are paired to face players that have been in the game roughly the same time as them.

Or paired with player that have put in a similar amount if development.

Not having revan does not take you out of arena. The top arena spots are always filled by those who are more invested, but people always find a way.
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Its been said the average life of SWGOH gamers now is between level 40 and 60 levels that's generous

Where?
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On my alt I have unlocked all nodes, GW simmable, and was in a guild raiding in less than 6 months, why would it take 2 years to have a shot at any of those toons?

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As you said, they have done this. It is easier to get started, and keep going. They have now moved marquees further out so new shards are not so effected by those releases (as an example). I'm sure they have the actual data and are not going to let the pace of the game get those numbers out of balance.

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I can yell you from conversations with the dev team that every new game mode and character/faction release leads to a push of new players and/or uptick in player traffic. Most of which have had their own issues, but none the less none have been a PR disaster when you look at the actual data.

Kyno I have accepted that you will almost always cheerlead CG except for the one time with Revan. I like how you and other experienced players are using your alt as a way to validate that it isn't hard for new players. In the very beginning of my post I guess I should have added that to the excel and guide ready gamers when they start. The fact you had to use your alt as a way to defend that new players don't have it so hard proves my point. You are a VET of course you know exactly what you should do for maximum gains right at the gate unlike the regular gamer that has no clue what to do. This game has got to start incorporating a way for new and mid level players to help them that DOESN'T have dollar signs in front of it.

Your also right CG has the data but they aren't going to release the fact that the mid level player base is stagnating and losing ground. EA would have their head. Supercell didn't have to answer to a higher power and could do that and then ask the player base what can we do to turn this around. That is exactly how a game that has been out 3+ years should act. Why I laughed so hard when SC shared there response to EA when EA made overtures about buying SC lineup of games. SC basically said why so you can ruin our game like every other game you touch.

"Commander_Wolffe;c-1715243" wrote:
As a new player, I think the biggest probably is power creep.

As every new release (e.g. Revan, HT, etc.) comes out, it's extremely OP. Unlike with older players, an OP character is only slightly (let's say 5% better for arguments sake) than the last OP character which they've had multiple events/chances to collect.

For a new player, if you miss the OP release on the initial release, then that +5% power difference is more like +25% vs younger inventories. That means new, non-whale/kraken, players are at a much higher disadvantage because these OP releases have such a bigger impact on newer, younger players than with older players who have counter teams, other OPs, more options.

In my shard, Bastilla was release, then GMY, then Revan. These are 3 strong Jedi team members which immediately dominated the squad arena with Jedi meta. While there's still some Empire/Sith in top 20, the Sith is the underdogs unless that player purchased Sith meta or restarted their account until they started with a Sith meta (DN, DS).

In my fleet shard, one guy purchased the HT pack (most of our shard wasn't high enough level for HT marquee), with a g2 Bossk (1 or 2 star) and a 3 star HT, he held the top position for more than a month. His fleet GP is still half of everybody else in the top 25 and he still (months later) is constantly in the top 10 with a 4/5 star HT fighting full 7 star fleets at twice his GP.

The power creep on OP releases affects newer players a lot more than older players. Any new player that is competitive a little will get frustrated that a single release can impact their entire gameplay. For older players, Revan was an OP, but there were many counters and other teams with synergy that could alleviate that. For younger players, there's less options.

The only option for younger players is to spend money - it's full p2p. The new players trying to do f2p are great, but they need to set their expectations that 1 person can buy 1 pack and be unbeatable for weeks or months until that release is put on a hard node that requires months of farming to release.

Thank you for sharing your viewpoint everybody the only way we can hope to affect change and extend the life of this game.