Q&A: Sandbagging Response

"nottenst;c-2039065" wrote:

"thecarterologist958;c-2037759" wrote:

"nottenst;c-2037384" wrote:


Yes, just this week. We couldn't believe that the day after the Christmas they organized themselves to wipe us out in 2 hours.

Day after Christmas nobody is doing anything often, I meant you're expecting them to be calling people out on Christmas day?

If they are organized enough to complete 190 or more battles over 2 hours, then I would expect that they could have had more members participating if they wanted to. That's all.

We have never seen an opposing guild able to clean us out so quickly even when previously outmatched. It just looked suspicious.

We had this exact thing happen this TW. I don't believe it to be nefarious in any way however. (Not that I've investigated) It's just the way things go sometimes. Within about 2-3 hours they'd wiped our board.

"DarjeloSalas;c-2039536" wrote:

"thecarterologist958;c-2038782" wrote:

"StarSon;c-2038674" wrote:


Shorthanded it is.

Shorthanding a TW will almost always give you an advantage, as has been shown many times in this thread.

Bar all the clearly irrelevant examples I've given each territory war this conversation has been active for. There is no way to guarantee an advantage is given, just as my examples are not proof that having the bigger guild is an advantage, there are other factors.

"StarSon;c-2038674" wrote:

"EventineElessedil;c-2030328" wrote:
"Shorthanded"
Fits the situation better. No intent.
Then we can focus on the real issue: whether the matching provides an advantage to the shorthanded team.

Shorthanded it is.

Shorthanding a TW will almost always give you an advantage, as has been shown many times in this thread.

@thecarterologist958 @StarSon here’s one for you:

TW is optional in our guild. People don’t sign up if they can’t commit to regularly checking the board to attack.

The Christmas TW we had our lowest ever sign up total of 44/50. Yay! Advantage us, right?

No. We faced a guild who were in the top 150 total GP (247M) against our 226M. 20 slots per zone so only 39/40 of them signed up. We were well beaten. Not annihilated, but a good 200 points behind them. They cleared our board in 3 hours, we cleared their’s in 23 hours.

Going in short handed doesn’t always give an advantage, because there’s nothing you can do to prevent being matched with a better guild who are going in even more short handed!

25 for max rewards? Now I just need to find 25 other guys who sit out and let the rest of us sandbag... but they all also have to have 5m gp to help in tb and do 600 a day.

Looking for 25 members to join us and sit out tw if anyone wants to collude lmk we got room if u got sand we got bags. Have a feeling no one will ever respond but apparently it's a thing I'll keep u all posted on the status.

"DarjeloSalas;c-2039536" wrote:

"thecarterologist958;c-2038782" wrote:

"StarSon;c-2038674" wrote:


Shorthanded it is.

Shorthanding a TW will almost always give you an advantage, as has been shown many times in this thread.

Bar all the clearly irrelevant examples I've given each territory war this conversation has been active for. There is no way to guarantee an advantage is given, just as my examples are not proof that having the bigger guild is an advantage, there are other factors.

"StarSon;c-2038674" wrote:

"EventineElessedil;c-2030328" wrote:
"Shorthanded"
Fits the situation better. No intent.
Then we can focus on the real issue: whether the matching provides an advantage to the shorthanded team.

Shorthanded it is.

Shorthanding a TW will almost always give you an advantage, as has been shown many times in this thread.

@thecarterologist958 @StarSon here’s one for you:

TW is optional in our guild. People don’t sign up if they can’t commit to regularly checking the board to attack.

The Christmas TW we had our lowest ever sign up total of 44/50. Yay! Advantage us, right?

No. We faced a guild who were in the top 150 total GP (247M) against our 226M. 20 slots per zone so only 39/40 of them signed up. We were well beaten. Not annihilated, but a good 200 points behind them. They cleared our board in 3 hours, we cleared their’s in 23 hours.

Going in short handed doesn’t always give an advantage, because there’s nothing you can do to prevent being matched with a better guild who are going in even more short handed!

So, you're saying that going in more shorthanded (shorter handed?) than your opponent is an advantage, right? So, you're supporting StarSon's "almost always" statement, right? (assuming that at your GP level most guilds are going in with 50 or almost 50 members).

Just trying to get things straight. It seems like you're trying to argue against StarSon while your comment actually supports his statemen.

"Waqui;c-2039544" wrote:

"DarjeloSalas;c-2039536" wrote:

"thecarterologist958;c-2038782" wrote:

"StarSon;c-2038674" wrote:


Shorthanded it is.

Shorthanding a TW will almost always give you an advantage, as has been shown many times in this thread.

Bar all the clearly irrelevant examples I've given each territory war this conversation has been active for. There is no way to guarantee an advantage is given, just as my examples are not proof that having the bigger guild is an advantage, there are other factors.

"StarSon;c-2038674" wrote:

"EventineElessedil;c-2030328" wrote:
"Shorthanded"
Fits the situation better. No intent.
Then we can focus on the real issue: whether the matching provides an advantage to the shorthanded team.

Shorthanded it is.

Shorthanding a TW will almost always give you an advantage, as has been shown many times in this thread.

@thecarterologist958 @StarSon here’s one for you:

TW is optional in our guild. People don’t sign up if they can’t commit to regularly checking the board to attack.

The Christmas TW we had our lowest ever sign up total of 44/50. Yay! Advantage us, right?

No. We faced a guild who were in the top 150 total GP (247M) against our 226M. 20 slots per zone so only 39/40 of them signed up. We were well beaten. Not annihilated, but a good 200 points behind them. They cleared our board in 3 hours, we cleared their’s in 23 hours.

Going in short handed doesn’t always give an advantage, because there’s nothing you can do to prevent being matched with a better guild who are going in even more short handed!

So, you're saying that going in more shorthanded (shorter handed?) than your opponent is an advantage, right? So, you're supporting StarSon's "almost always" statement, right? (assuming that at your GP level most guilds are going in with 50 or almost 50 members).

Just trying to get things straight. It seems like you're trying to argue against StarSon while your comment actually supports his statemen.

Assuming that most guilds go in with 50 members is where the logic falls apart... for example probally less than 5% go in with all 50 active, think about it. It's rare to have a tw with 25 zones. it's usually like 17 to 23 zones so 34 to 46 people is realistic as what "most guilds do".

Not just assuming most guilds have 50 other errors in rationale are...

like less people (39/50, shorter handed) getting win condition rewards is somehow better than more people (44/50, less shorter handed) getting those same win condition rewards. More is more big picture.

Or like you even have any control if you are more shorter handed than your opponent... if you go shorthanded with 45 you could get matched against a guild who sent 40. Go down to 35 get matched against a guild of 30. Drop to 30 and get matched against a guild of 25...

My point is all your doing is getting less rewards making 5 sit out, 15 sit out, even if u go shortest possible handded and make 25 sit out your just getting less rewards as a guild big picture. And good luck finding those people to sit out in hopes of better rewards...

no sucessful guilds are doing this.

"BobcatSkywalker;c-2039548" wrote:

"Waqui;c-2039544" wrote:

"DarjeloSalas;c-2039536" wrote:

"thecarterologist958;c-2038782" wrote:

"StarSon;c-2038674" wrote:


Shorthanded it is.

Shorthanding a TW will almost always give you an advantage, as has been shown many times in this thread.

Bar all the clearly irrelevant examples I've given each territory war this conversation has been active for. There is no way to guarantee an advantage is given, just as my examples are not proof that having the bigger guild is an advantage, there are other factors.

"StarSon;c-2038674" wrote:

"EventineElessedil;c-2030328" wrote:
"Shorthanded"
Fits the situation better. No intent.
Then we can focus on the real issue: whether the matching provides an advantage to the shorthanded team.

Shorthanded it is.

Shorthanding a TW will almost always give you an advantage, as has been shown many times in this thread.

@thecarterologist958 @StarSon here’s one for you:

TW is optional in our guild. People don’t sign up if they can’t commit to regularly checking the board to attack.

The Christmas TW we had our lowest ever sign up total of 44/50. Yay! Advantage us, right?

No. We faced a guild who were in the top 150 total GP (247M) against our 226M. 20 slots per zone so only 39/40 of them signed up. We were well beaten. Not annihilated, but a good 200 points behind them. They cleared our board in 3 hours, we cleared their’s in 23 hours.

Going in short handed doesn’t always give an advantage, because there’s nothing you can do to prevent being matched with a better guild who are going in even more short handed!

So, you're saying that going in more shorthanded (shorter handed?) than your opponent is an advantage, right? So, you're supporting StarSon's "almost always" statement, right? (assuming that at your GP level most guilds are going in with 50 or almost 50 members).

Just trying to get things straight. It seems like you're trying to argue against StarSon while your comment actually supports his statemen.

Assuming that most guilds go in with 50 members is where the logic falls apart... for example probally less than 5% go in with all 50 active, think about it. It's rare to have a tw with 25 zones. it's usually like 17 to 23 zones so 34 to 46 people is realistic as what "most guilds do".

For some reason my TWs seem to play differently than yours. I haven't seen less than 23 slots per zone for ages.

Or like you even have any control if you are more shorter handed than your opponent...

I don't believe anyone here claimed to be able to control match making.

My point is all your doing is getting less rewards making 5 sit out, 15 sit out, even if u go shortest possible handded and make 25 sit out your just getting less rewards as a guild big picture. And good luck finding those people to sit out in hopes of better rewards...

The reason for sitting out is completely irrelevant here.

"DarjeloSalas;c-2039549" wrote:
If my comment supports his statement, why does it seem like I’m trying to argue against him?

The way you used quotes. But OK. You agree with them. All clear now

For those who consider sandbagging an issue I will offer some advice. It will be ignored but here it is.

1 - Take off the tinfoil hats and stop basing your argument around people intentionally trying to get an edge. It makes you look like whiners and weakens your point about the effects it can have on TW.

2 - Stop advocating for "fixes" that just unbalance things in a different direction. That just makes you look like self serving whiners.

As a bonus I even will give you a suggestion of a fix that is not unbalanced and might even be possible to do. A two step matchmaking

1 - Match by effective GP (just like now) followed by...

2 -Match by number of participants, within a plus minus of say 2 people, this method does not punish the vast majority of guilds who are casual and have TW as voluntary content.

Outnumbered
Shorthanded
Minority
Lean & mean
Sparse
Efficient

Just fight the battle and accept the results. You can't win them all.

"Waqui;c-2039561" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-2039548" wrote:

"Waqui;c-2039544" wrote:

"DarjeloSalas;c-2039536" wrote:

"thecarterologist958;c-2038782" wrote:

"StarSon;c-2038674" wrote:


Shorthanded it is.

Shorthanding a TW will almost always give you an advantage, as has been shown many times in this thread.

Bar all the clearly irrelevant examples I've given each territory war this conversation has been active for. There is no way to guarantee an advantage is given, just as my examples are not proof that having the bigger guild is an advantage, there are other factors.

"StarSon;c-2038674" wrote:

"EventineElessedil;c-2030328" wrote:
"Shorthanded"
Fits the situation better. No intent.
Then we can focus on the real issue: whether the matching provides an advantage to the shorthanded team.

Shorthanded it is.

Shorthanding a TW will almost always give you an advantage, as has been shown many times in this thread.

@thecarterologist958 @StarSon here’s one for you:

TW is optional in our guild. People don’t sign up if they can’t commit to regularly checking the board to attack.

The Christmas TW we had our lowest ever sign up total of 44/50. Yay! Advantage us, right?

No. We faced a guild who were in the top 150 total GP (247M) against our 226M. 20 slots per zone so only 39/40 of them signed up. We were well beaten. Not annihilated, but a good 200 points behind them. They cleared our board in 3 hours, we cleared their’s in 23 hours.

Going in short handed doesn’t always give an advantage, because there’s nothing you can do to prevent being matched with a better guild who are going in even more short handed!

So, you're saying that going in more shorthanded (shorter handed?) than your opponent is an advantage, right? So, you're supporting StarSon's "almost always" statement, right? (assuming that at your GP level most guilds are going in with 50 or almost 50 members).

Just trying to get things straight. It seems like you're trying to argue against StarSon while your comment actually supports his statemen.

Assuming that most guilds go in with 50 members is where the logic falls apart... for example probally less than 5% go in with all 50 active, think about it. It's rare to have a tw with 25 zones. it's usually like 17 to 23 zones so 34 to 46 people is realistic as what "most guilds do".

For some reason my TWs seem to play differently than yours. I haven't seen less than 23 slots per zone for ages.

Or like you even have any control if you are more shorter handed than your opponent...

I don't believe anyone here claimed to be able to control match making.

My point is all your doing is getting less rewards making 5 sit out, 15 sit out, even if u go shortest possible handded and make 25 sit out your just getting less rewards as a guild big picture. And good luck finding those people to sit out in hopes of better rewards...

The reason for sitting out is completely irrelevant here.

If you dont recall seeing less than 23 slots for ages then all your matchups are with guilds having 46 to 50 members sign up and that would mean that matchmaking is functioning as even as possibly possible...

If you feel matchmaking is unfair and you have 50 they have 47 then your issue is matchmaking in general, not sandbagging.

"DarjeloSalas;c-2039536" wrote:


thecarterologist958 StarSon here’s one for you:

TW is optional in our guild. People don’t sign up if they can’t commit to regularly checking the board to attack.

The Christmas TW we had our lowest ever sign up total of 44/50. Yay! Advantage us, right?

No. We faced a guild who were in the top 150 total GP (247M) against our 226M. 20 slots per zone so only 39/40 of them signed up. We were well beaten. Not annihilated, but a good 200 points behind them. They cleared our board in 3 hours, we cleared their’s in 23 hours.

Going in short handed doesn’t always give an advantage, because there’s nothing you can do to prevent being matched with a better guild who are going in even more short handed!

So you are saying matchmaking usually gives an advantage while giving an example where for you it didn't? So to some degree you have managed to take two opposing perspectives and provide a statement that supports them both. Going in shorthanded left you with a disadvantage, but you got beat by someone more shorthanded so perhaps it gave them one. I'm impressed by the agreeableness there.