Relic Delta kills mid-game: CG is throwing 2/3 of my teams in the trash

LOL, I said the verb that literally means "to severely damage (something) : to destroy the strength, efficiency, or wholeness of (something)." I guess that's not allowed.

And then I was sure that "t-u-r-d" was a normal-enough word to not be an issue. I speak English. I know what is profanity and what isn't.  

Well I never expected to see such a miserable display of self-loathing from you

This is a load of catastrophising nonsense. 

Is everyone at the same level as you able to field a dozen or more r9 teams? Of course they aren’t. You’re in the same boat as everyone at your level - which is exactly the same position as you’re in now.  

Check your current GAC bracket, I checked mine when this first came up and I am fairly average for where I am. I am in K2 and it is not full of R7/R8/R9 squads, I still have R3/R5 characters on defence most of my high relics are requirements, GL's or raid/TB characters. In fact the relic delta is being introduced because many of us take characters to R3-R5 and leave them there with little motivation to invest upwards. We will all need to evolve into a new meta where some counters may require more investment. A relic delta of 1-2 sounds workable in most consistent counters. Most of my low relic stuff works on looping turnmeter, its difficult to say how the relic delta will impact these squads as they perform well with under-investment currently. My R3 phoenix (with R7 captain rex) can take out R7 Inquisitors with R9 Third sister. That is a cheap counter so I am not opposed to bumping a few characters if I need to or seeing if another counter works better now. 

Why do think 2/3 of your teams will be useless? Do you expect to only get matched with high relic opponents?  Don’t understand this thought process…currently many teams that are barely relic 5, don’t stand a chance

That's, like, completely wrong. Relic Delta doesn't make any characters irrelevant, just worse/better relative to other relics. Compared to low players, your roster is getting absolutely shredded. 

Look, I don't know how to say this more clearly. But please try to tell me (civilly) where I'm going wrong. 

• 2/3 of the teams I use in various game modes, including teams that I rely heavily on, include at least some g12s.
• By CG's stated intention and design, g12 should almost always lose against r3+ now.  
• Several of you have said that I should check my bracket or the people I usually fight against. I'm telling you, virtually every battle I fight in GAC and TW is against fully reliced teams, mostly r5 and above. In Conquest, I could usually finagle some g12s to survive and do work with the right datacards. That will probably not be possible anymore.
• Hence, about 2/3 of the teams I use now will be useless. 
  
  

Relic delta will wreck mid-game players who still use g12 units. 

I don't think this is extreme or self-loathing to say. Where am I wrong?

So what if a G12 worked last week and not this week it’s not killing mid game. Mid game is all about leveling towards end game, I can tell you I am shocked if I see any G12 in Kyber, how long did you expect to still be using G12? Changes in the required relics to function happens constantly between mid game and end game. Sometimes because you break through to higher brackets, sometimes because all the players around you in your existing bracket are increasingly higher levelled so you invest just to keep the same rewards and sometimes because a new character alters the available counters success rates. This time it’s a alteration on how relic levels interact, it will not hurt to bump the G12’s up it is literally the point of the game and would have been needed at some point in the future. 

My thoughts:

gufu21 wrote:

2/3 of the teams I use in various game modes, including teams that I rely heavily on, include at least some g12s.

This is something you'd need to try and fix anyway.  G12s are distinctly inferior to relics (in most cases) and it means you can't use datacrons.  Yes, it's a bit more of a problem with Relic Deltas, but it's already a problem.

gufu21 wrote:

By CG's stated intention and design, g12 should almost always lose against r3+ now.  

Yes, this is how they want it.  However, your squads aren't all G12, just have 'some' G12.  Obviously, it'll be case by case.  Generally, if your G12s are in a supp role, it might not make any difference.  My guess is your G12s are more fillers than match winners.

gufu21 wrote:

Several of you have said that I should check my bracket or the people I usually fight against. I'm telling you, virtually every battle I fight in GAC and TW is against fully reliced teams, mostly r5 and above.

So, this isn't clearcut.  For me, I'm going to get royally nerfed by Relic Deltas.  I'm 12.5 million in Kyber 2, which is a smallish GP for K2.  I roam to the very top of K2 at the end of 3v3 seasons.  I am the underdog in around 82-3% of my GAC matches.  GP will be more king now and I will be pushed down to probably K3.  Maybe bottom of K2-K3.  So, it depends on the average GP of your league or division, as to whether you'll be negatively effected or not.  Remember, there will be an initial resettling of players.  If you are in a division where the average player is not above your GP, you won't be adversely effected.  Those players with more relics will move up, and people with rosters closer to you will move down.  In one way, it might do what a lot of players want, give more even GP match ups.  For me, this is a negative.

gufu21 wrote:

In Conquest, I could usually finagle some g12s to survive and do work with the right datacards. That will probably not be possible anymore.

I believe they stated that PvE (Conquest in particular) will be re-calibrated so that Deltas do not adversely affect the environment.  Remember the reason (told and not told) for Deltas.  It's because the curve of relics isn't balanced.  I.e. the cost of upgrading doesn't match the value (to a degree).  This means that players are not getting good enough value out of higher relics vs lower relics (in PvP).  That's what they want to fix (so that we all spend more on relics of course), not to ruin your PvE experience.

gufu21 wrote:

Hence, about 2/3 of the teams I use now will be useless. 

I don't think this will be the case, and you can fix it....and SHOULD fix it.  If you're a GAC hotshot, or your guild are TW hotshots.....then yes, you will be negatively effected.  If these are not the case, there will be some re-settling, yes.  Then, other than a dumbing down in GAC and more teams being unbeatable, your overall experience will be similar.

In my mind anyway.

Anyway, I hope this helps.

Rius_975518199 wrote:

So what if a G12 worked last week and not this week it’s not killing mid game. Mid game is all about leveling towards end game

The "so what" for me is this:

• 2/3 of my teams are suddenly no longer viable.
• Playing with many different characters and teams is fun. 
• There will be a lot less fun for me because I now can't do that. 

Of course mid game is about leveling, and g12s won't last forever. But RD is not gradual drop in usefulness. It's jumping off a cliff from 60–70% useful to probably 0%–20%. And there's no big jump in g12 resources to compensate. 

harvestmouse1 wrote:

gufu21 wrote:
By CG's stated intention and design, g12 should almost always lose against r3+ now.  

Yes, this is how they want it.  However, your squads aren't all G12, just have 'some' G12.  Obviously, it'll be case by case.  Generally, if your G12s are in a supp role, it might not make any difference.  My guess is your G12s are more fillers than match winners.

Yes, that's a fair nuance: Many of my squads are a mix of g12s and relics. But the end result is still binary: win vs. loss. And I think RD is going to push almost all of these into loss when the g12s either melt away or can't hit. 

Let me give you some examples: 

• OG EP team (not SK): G12 except for r7 Vader. If the opponent gets turns, everyone but Vader will now quickly melt. There's now almost zero margin for error. 
• Omi Traya: All g12. They will die quickly against relics and do no damage except annihilate. This bread-and-butter counter is dead. 
• Mon Mothma (no Luthen): G12 except for r5 MM. They all melt, no damage. 
• Sana rebels: Only ROLO and Lando are reliced. G12 ST Han melts and the team falls apart. 
• Dash scoundrels: Only Dash is reliced. YOLO did damage but now won't. L3 and VanChew will melt. 
• Bossk BHs: Greef and Mando are g12. They evaporate, maybe before I reach contract. 

harvestmouse1 wrote:

I believe they stated that PvE (Conquest in particular) will be re-calibrated so that Deltas do not adversely affect the environment. 

They said that instead of r4–r8, hard Conquest will cap at r5 in Sector 2—and "this may be accompanied by an increase in the base stats of each unit."  That will prevent RD from hurting my fully reliced teams. But it won't prevent RD from turning g12s into tissue paper. Fun side effect: A lot of us cheese the unit- or faction-specific feats with low-gear units (since they're usually for newer units a lot of us don't have built up). That's probably over too. So yes, my Conquest experience will change drastically for the worse. Fewer viable units = slower progression, fewer feats. 

harvestmouse1 wrote:

gufu21 wrote:
Hence, about 2/3 of the teams I use now will be useless. 

I don't think this will be the case, and you can fix it....and SHOULD fix it.  If you're a GAC hotshot, or your guild are TW hotshots.....then yes, you will be negatively effected.  If these are not the case, there will be some re-settling, yes.  Then, other than a dumbing down in GAC and more teams being unbeatable, your overall experience will be similar.

I think it will be the case for almost all of them. Since I virtually only face fully reliced teams, I don't see a game mode—PvP or PvE—where g12s remain viable. 

I DO WANT to fix it, obviously. But as I said above, my roster's usability isn't gradually fading at a rate I can offset by upgrades—it's jumping off a cliff all at once, and I'm not getting more g12 gear or kyros to address that—and dropping in GAC and Conquest may mean I'll actually have less.

Suddenly, most of my basic teams need relics to be usable, so stretching toward a GL seems out of the question. And with dozens of characters suddenly not playable, I'll be left with 7 good teams. And that's boring and less fun for me. This is not a similar overall experience.