Speed ruins it

It seems the goal is to make speed more equal to all which should make other stats worth it. More mods with speed on them will make small difference in speed and that is nothing to worry about.

"Speed is the God stat," and its sister, "Action economy is king," are problem that's been with gaming for nearly 30 years. This game ain't gonna fix that aspect of variable turn length combat systems.

A good enough set of mods can double or more a unit's speed, which is both the initiative and turn taking mechanic. Without a nuclear nerf bomb to those speed mods, the ability to act first, and to act more often will always be the most important thing, especially since most good teams have a turn meter engine that they need to get rolling as fast as possible, and that doubled speed will more than double the turns you take. Especially if you're also draining opponent turn meter and killing enemies, depleting your opponent's ability to act.

No sane amount of raw stats is likely to ever surpass that.

"YaeVizsla;c-1604182" wrote:
"Speed is the God stat," and its sister, "Action economy is king," are problem that's been with gaming for nearly 30 years. This game ain't gonna fix that aspect of variable turn length combat systems.

A good enough set of mods can double or more a unit's speed, which is both the initiative and turn taking mechanic. Without a nuclear nerf bomb to those speed mods, the ability to act first, and to act more often will always be the most important thing, especially since most good teams have a turn meter engine that they need to get rolling as fast as possible, and that doubled speed will more than double the turns you take. Especially if you're also draining opponent turn meter and killing enemies, depleting your opponent's ability to act.

No sane amount of raw stats is likely to ever surpass that.

If everyone can place a 100-120 speed set on their toons ,then speed becomes about turn order and for all practical purposes other stats do become more important, because you can jump them up and only lose small amounts of speed.

What about stat caps, so that you have to focus on other stats when you hit the max?

"Tryxa;c-1604191" wrote:
What about stat caps, so that you have to focus on other stats when you hit the max?

They do all have maxes, and they are only slightly different for each toon due to base stats.

"Kyno;c-1604193" wrote:

"Tryxa;c-1604191" wrote:
What about stat caps, so that you have to focus on other stats when you hit the max?

They do all have maxes, and they are only slightly different for each toon due to base stats.

Then what about introducing a new stat that can reduce enemy speed (like how potency and tenacity are opposites).

You mean like Speed Down debuff?

The reason Speed is so strong is because there's no disadvantage or clear counter to it (other than fighting Speed with Speed). Offense is countered by Defense, Health, and Protection, so depending on character role one may be better than the other, though most players opt for Offense for many units. Critical Damage / Chance often triggers Uniques or is countered by the Critical Hit Immunity Buff, so it's a fairly safe option but not the best option in many cases (especially against Zarriss and General Kenobi). Potency and Tenacity counter each other, though admittedly it needs some work (Tenacity Up / Tenacity Down Buff are what those two stats are all about currently).

In order for Speed to NOT be a viable option there needs to be a reason to NOT take it or to counter it without investing in Speed. Diminishing returns or a stat cap will still see people investing in their characters with as much speed as possible or doing a cookie cutter build for units where they invest X amount into speed to hit the cap and then dumping into other stats. It'd be a Band-Aid and wouldn't fix the underlying problem.

I'm not 100% sure what would be the best way to counter Speed at this point, but I think that's what has to happen. Some kind of new stat, or new Uniques or Leader skills or something to make gaining a ton of Turn Meter a bad thing. (IE: Unit gains 1% Offense (Stacking) per 1% Turn Meter each enemy gains. This Offense bonus is lost when this unit makes an attack. - Make the unit slow and weak but make its skills have high ratios so that when it finally does get a turn the attack is devastating if the enemy has taken a ton of turns. If they hadn't taken a lot of turns the hit will be weak and the unit with superior Offense / Defense will win.)

"Huatimus;c-1605628" wrote:
You mean like Speed Down debuff?

Speed down does not reduce speed, oddly.

Or rather, speed serves as two completely separate stats.

It affects turn meter gain, which is the lesser of its functions in the context of arena, and the only one Speed Down significantly affects.

The second function of speed, and the more important, is as the initiative mechanic. Determining who goes first. To inflict speed down, someone has to do something. And by the time that happens, speed's function as initiative mechanic is over.

"Huatimus;c-1605628" wrote:
You mean like Speed Down debuff?

No, not like a debuff. More like how tenacity is a whole other stat that can counter potency.