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olddumper's avatar
7 years ago

The EP Vader Rework: A Sith Story

I would like to start this thread by giving a big shout out to CG. Great Job guys. For everybody out there complaining I am about to give you some prospective and a little history.

This current EP and Vader rework has been the best dark side addition to the game to date. Let's look at some of the best squad/toons in the history of this game and what you needed to do to acquire them.

RJT: farm all of the FOO to get BB-8, farm the vets, and drop tons of gear and zeta's to build a meta squad

Talzin: You had to pay for this toon and then gear all the nightsisters likely from scratch. That's a ton of work.

CLS: He was pretty easy to obtain but you still needed to put your gear and zeta's on him.

Thrawn: they made you farm 5 scrubs and then you needed to zeta and gear him from scratch

DN: you had to pay for this toon to get him right away.

DT/Krennic: citadel pack, enough said

ShT/Chaze: tournament refreshed

Rex P2P for a very long time

In general you can see a pattern CG just doesn't give your free meta toons, until now. What did you need to do to get Vader and Ep up and running? Slap 1 zeta on Ep lead and put some mats on zader unique? Most people have had these two toons for years at this point. They literally are on most peoples g12 row by sheer osmosis. People should be stunned that the devs just gifted us toons that level CLS and Nightsisters and contend with RJT for free.

Next let's look at the long term impact of these toons. Let's start with Ep. Remember how Rex was meta for like 2 years because his lead had way too much TM gain? Well now Ep has a lead with equally stupid TM gain, doubly stupid for empire allies. Whenever a new debuff heavy Empire or Sith the TM loop gets that much tighter. (They actually kind of boxed themselves in here, since new AOEs will need to contain a limited number of debuffs.) The Empire and Sith now have a clear leader. Palpatine.

Now let's look at Vader. I can do this one quick. Vader is roughly 300 to 350 speed now in any given match. 350 speed doesn't go out of style and his 1st two moves in unison grant TM under EP so his whole squad can move 1st.


Lastly let me help you all out. Here is the long and short of building this squad. EP lead with Thrawn and Vader are a must. Thrawn has fracture and stuns like crazy next to Vader. Wampa and IPD are the premier 4 and 5 but that's a big investment which may not work for FTP. ShT is probably the most F2P friendly tank and should be your 4. In your last spot you have some flexibility. Let's look some toons that fit and why they work.

DN: His unique lays tons debuffs for TM, he can dispel, increase cooldowns and he has an instant kill.

DT: AOE dispel, AOE debuff, deathmark, daze.

Tarkin: AOE with 10 debuffs that doesn't trigger any response. He can load up for big damage or reduce enemy TM. Holding them in shock and stun.

SA: Blasts out TM, can 1shot bb-8 and other squishy toons. Hides well.

Remember more toons are coming out so treat your 5th spot as a stop gap solution for now until we know more. Just grab whoever you have most complete.



After much deliberation and testing this was an amazing rework. Sure it won't let you camp out in 1st but that's and absurd standard to have for a zeta or two.
  • "Olddumper;d-157876" wrote:
    I would like to start this thread by giving a big shout out to CG. Great Job guys. For everybody out there complaining I am about to give you some prospective and a little history.

    This current EP and Vader rework has been the best dark side addition to the game to date. Let's look at some of the best squad/toons in the history of this game and what you needed to do to acquire them.

    RJT: farm all of the FOO to get BB-8, farm the vets, and drop tons of gear and zeta's to build a meta squad

    Talzin: You had to pay for this toon and then gear all the nightsisters likely from scratch. That's a ton of work.

    CLS: He was pretty easy to obtain but you still needed to put your gear and zeta's on him.

    Thrawn: they made you farm 5 scrubs and then you needed to zeta and gear him from scratch

    DN: you had to pay for this toon to get him right away.

    DT/Krennic: citadel pack, enough said

    ShT/Chaze: tournament refreshed

    Rex P2P for a very long time

    In general you can see a pattern CG just doesn't give your free meta toons, until now. What did you need to do to get Vader and Ep up and running? Slap 1 zeta on Ep lead and put some mats on zader unique? Most people have had these two toons for years at this point. They literally are on most peoples g12 row by sheer osmosis. People should be stunned that the devs just gifted us toons that level CLS and Nightsisters and contend with RJT for free.

    Next let's look at the long term impact of these toons. Let's start with Ep. Remember how Rex was meta for like 2 years because his lead had way too much TM gain? Well now Ep has a lead with equally **** TM gain, doubly **** for empire allies. Whenever a new debuff heavy Empire or Sith the TM loop gets that much tighter. (They actually kind of boxed themselves in here, since new AOEs will need to contain a limited number of debuffs.) The Empire and Sith now have a clear leader. Palpatine.

    Now let's look at Vader. I can do this one quick. Vader is roughly 300 to 350 speed now in any given match. 350 speed doesn't go out of style and his 1st two moves in unison grant TM under EP so his whole squad can move 1st.


    Lastly let me help you all out. Here is the long and short of building this squad. EP lead with Thrawn and Vader are a must. Thrawn has fracture and stuns like crazy next to Vader. Wampa and IPD are the premier 4 and 5 but that's a big investment which may not work for FTP. ShT is probably the most F2P friendly tank and should be your 4. In your last spot you have some flexibility. Let's look some toons that fit and why they work.

    DN: His unique lays tons debuffs for TM, he can dispel, increase cooldowns and he has an instant kill.

    DT: AOE dispel, AOE debuff, deathmark, daze.

    Tarkin: AOE with 10 debuffs that doesn't trigger any response. He can load up for big damage or reduce enemy TM. Holding them in shock and stun.

    SA: Blasts out TM, can 1shot bb-8 and other squishy toons. Hides well.

    Remember more toons are coming out so treat your 5th spot as a stop gap solution for now until we know more. Just grab whoever you have most complete.



    After much deliberation and testing this was an amazing rework. Sure it won't let you camp out in 1st but that's and absurd standard to have for a zeta or two.


    So i guess you find it normal for some badly written OP scavenger "Mary Sue" to dominate the meta and not Vader and the Emperor, because their "reworks" won't make them dominate the meta, as we all hoped they would!
  • IPD is on my wishlist. 2 shards per player clearing the mission is nice, but it's still gonna take a while unfortunately.
  • "swgohfan29;c-1454463" wrote:
    "dimi4a;c-1454456" wrote:
    "swgohfan29;c-1454448" wrote:

    IMO Luke was more of a mary sue than Rey ever was. Just saying.


    That's absolutely not true, because unlike Rey, Luke received an actual training while Rey became strong in the Force on a whim and with no training and that's due to poor character development and that is why she IS a "Mary Sue"!


    Yes. Luke was undoubtedly able to defeat vader with his vast amount of Lightsaber training given to him by......ummmmmmm

    Oh! And he was also a brillant pilot despite never being into space because of .........wait.....


    1. In both their duels on Bespin and on the second Death Star Vader was just toying with Luke and didn't want to kill him, because he wanted to turn him to the Dark Side. Luke just caught him off guard and overpowered him using his brief anger. If Vader wanted to kill him he was going to be like in Rogue One and then it's game over for Luke!
    2. Before becoming a pilot for the Rebellion, Luke already had experience and piloting skills from his races with Biggs flying their T-16 skyhoppers in Beggar's Canyon on Tatooine. This, coupled with his potential in the Force helped him during the Death Star trench run.
    3. Stop defending Rey!
  • "dimi4a;c-1454444" wrote:
    "Olddumper;d-157876" wrote:
    I would like to start this thread by giving a big shout out to CG. Great Job guys. For everybody out there complaining I am about to give you some prospective and a little history.

    This current EP and Vader rework has been the best dark side addition to the game to date. Let's look at some of the best squad/toons in the history of this game and what you needed to do to acquire them.

    RJT: farm all of the FOO to get BB-8, farm the vets, and drop tons of gear and zeta's to build a meta squad

    Talzin: You had to pay for this toon and then gear all the nightsisters likely from scratch. That's a ton of work.

    CLS: He was pretty easy to obtain but you still needed to put your gear and zeta's on him.

    Thrawn: they made you farm 5 scrubs and then you needed to zeta and gear him from scratch

    DN: you had to pay for this toon to get him right away.

    DT/Krennic: citadel pack, enough said

    ShT/Chaze: tournament refreshed

    Rex P2P for a very long time

    In general you can see a pattern CG just doesn't give your free meta toons, until now. What did you need to do to get Vader and Ep up and running? Slap 1 zeta on Ep lead and put some mats on zader unique? Most people have had these two toons for years at this point. They literally are on most peoples g12 row by sheer osmosis. People should be stunned that the devs just gifted us toons that level CLS and Nightsisters and contend with RJT for free.

    Next let's look at the long term impact of these toons. Let's start with Ep. Remember how Rex was meta for like 2 years because his lead had way too much TM gain? Well now Ep has a lead with equally **** TM gain, doubly **** for empire allies. Whenever a new debuff heavy Empire or Sith the TM loop gets that much tighter. (They actually kind of boxed themselves in here, since new AOEs will need to contain a limited number of debuffs.) The Empire and Sith now have a clear leader. Palpatine.

    Now let's look at Vader. I can do this one quick. Vader is roughly 300 to 350 speed now in any given match. 350 speed doesn't go out of style and his 1st two moves in unison grant TM under EP so his whole squad can move 1st.


    Lastly let me help you all out. Here is the long and short of building this squad. EP lead with Thrawn and Vader are a must. Thrawn has fracture and stuns like crazy next to Vader. Wampa and IPD are the premier 4 and 5 but that's a big investment which may not work for FTP. ShT is probably the most F2P friendly tank and should be your 4. In your last spot you have some flexibility. Let's look some toons that fit and why they work.

    DN: His unique lays tons debuffs for TM, he can dispel, increase cooldowns and he has an instant kill.

    DT: AOE dispel, AOE debuff, deathmark, daze.

    Tarkin: AOE with 10 debuffs that doesn't trigger any response. He can load up for big damage or reduce enemy TM. Holding them in shock and stun.

    SA: Blasts out TM, can 1shot bb-8 and other squishy toons. Hides well.

    Remember more toons are coming out so treat your 5th spot as a stop gap solution for now until we know more. Just grab whoever you have most complete.



    After much deliberation and testing this was an amazing rework. Sure it won't let you camp out in 1st but that's and absurd standard to have for a zeta or two.


    So i guess you find it normal for some badly written OP scavenger "Mary Sue" to dominate the meta and not Vader and the Emperor, because their "reworks" won't make them dominate the meta, as we all hoped they would!


    Well I don't see any reason that two easy to farm characters we get handed for next to nothing should dominate the meta.

    I'm hopeful that they can be a meta option but that will be with the addition of a couple of more characters not on their own.

    I dont want anyone to dominate the meta.

    Also I just want to say that the mistake that cg made was giving us Palpatine and Vader for next to nothing. At the moment they are probably a dominant mid game team replacing the likes of Wiggs and chaze in the mid game meta but with a couple more characters hopefully this will change.
  • "leef;c-1454504" wrote:

    "Naraic;c-1454498" wrote:


    Also I just want to say that the mistake that cg made was giving us Palpatine and Vader for next to nothing. At the moment they are probably a dominant mid game team replacing the likes of Wiggs and chaze in the mid game meta but with a couple more characters hopefully this will change.


    at the time of palpatines release, he definately dominated the meta and wasn't "that" easy to obtain.


    Fair point.

    What was the level cap when Palpatine was released 75 or 80? Mods weren't released yet. Wedge was p2p. Phoenix didn't exist.

    The Palpatine event has been powercreeped into being easy. I started a new account in late November. On that account I had two different rebel teams that were able to clear stage 7 of the event.
  • @Olddumper you think palp is a better leader for empire than thrawn? Thrawn also generates tm, but also recovers protection and allows the empire to have that all important cleanse. I see the merits of palp, but I think the cleanse is too valuable to drop.
  • "msb14;c-1454540" wrote:
    @Olddumper you think palp is a better leader for empire than thrawn? Thrawn also generates tm, but also recovers protection and allows the empire to have that all important cleanse. I see the merits of palp, but I think the cleanse is too valuable to drop.


    Yes he spits out way more TM. In and EP vs Thrawn battle the Thrawn team will not move; except for possibly a few toons cleansing themselves, or if they have a faster Vader that gets 1 turn at the start. This probably isn't the best judge though. what we care about is their turn meter gain vs RJT. EP lead Sith have proactive TM gain where-as Thrawn has reactive. In a battle vs RJT that means in order for your Thrawn squad to gain TM BB-8 RJT and the gang all get to start rolling. If you ever do get your TM moving because they are beating up on you eventually you will run out of TM gain because the opposing squad has quit feeding you TM. With EP lead it's the total opposite the more TM you gain, the more debuffs you lay, thus the more TM you gain. Even though BB-8 is usually faster than Vader, RJT squad gum up vs EP usually around mid battle. Shock an stun hold them in place and as you land more and more debuffs you turn meter starts to loop. Just think of EP as a newer better version of old school zfinn Resistance

    The only time Thrawn would put out more TM is if you have complete garbage tier mods.
  • "dimi4a;c-1454480" wrote:
    "swgohfan29;c-1454463" wrote:
    "dimi4a;c-1454456" wrote:
    "swgohfan29;c-1454448" wrote:

    IMO Luke was more of a mary sue than Rey ever was. Just saying.


    That's absolutely not true, because unlike Rey, Luke received an actual training while Rey became strong in the Force on a whim and with no training and that's due to poor character development and that is why she IS a "Mary Sue"!


    Yes. Luke was undoubtedly able to defeat vader with his vast amount of Lightsaber training given to him by......ummmmmmm

    Oh! And he was also a brillant pilot despite never being into space because of .........wait.....


    1. In both their duels on Bespin and on the second Death Star Vader was just toying with Luke and didn't want to kill him, because he wanted to turn him to the Dark Side. Luke just caught him off guard and overpowered him using his brief anger. If Vader wanted to kill him he was going to be like in Rogue One and then it's game over for Luke!
    2. Before becoming a pilot for the Rebellion, Luke already had experience and piloting skills from his races with Biggs flying their T-16 skyhoppers in Beggar's Canyon on Tatooine. This, coupled with his potential in the Force helped him during the Death Star trench run.
    3. Stop defending Rey!


    2. If i m not wrong (and i could be), this is never shown in the movies. Therefore you cant compare them (yet) until books about rey s past come out. Aslo if thats true that explains why Rey was able to fly the Flacon, being able to fly the quadjumper
    1. 1. Thansk for explaining how luke was able to want to kill Kylo for TLJ!. Brief Anger.
    2. I m not even sure how brief anger should be able to defeat a lifetime of combat experience against sith and jedi. So all thr Jedi had to do to survive Vader was to be angry briefly?

    3. Nah.

    @dimi4a
  • Agreed, they were a great rework. Competitive but not blatantly op. No one should have expected them to destroy the old meta like CLS and Rey did, but if you like the characters then it's pretty easy to build a good team around them now

    Also, we have no idea what's in store for later this month. Could be a few new sith releases that push them over the top