Bastila Jedi Nerf ?

"Gannon;c-1632861" wrote:
Yea that guy is wrong, ask a dev. You don't start at 100% potency. I've seen at least three separate comments by moderators stating this. At 6:40 this guy claims that toons start with 100% potency, but he's totally wrong.
At low levels, or if you don't understand the math, it may seem that way.. But it's a product of the tenacity-potency check. Even at base 15 tenacity v 0 potency you still end with only a 15% chance to resist. (15-0=15)
Very different from starting with 100 potency, which would invalidate tenacity almost completely.
Even a bastilla lead would only ever get 15% resist chance, regardless of tenacity if that were the case

Hahaha wow...... enjoy misunderstanding the mechanics of the game nevertheless I'll take the word of Warrior(a game changer that has discussed with the developers and got confirmation by the them that this indeed is correct) over what you try and tell me. Again, welcome to the 90% crew.

"Crazygone510;c-1632862" wrote:

"Gannon;c-1632861" wrote:
Yea that guy is wrong, ask a dev. You don't start at 100% potency. I've seen at least three separate comments by moderators stating this. At 6:40 this guy claims that toons start with 100% potency, but he's totally wrong.
At low levels, or if you don't understand the math, it may seem that way.. But it's a product of the tenacity-potency check. Even at base 15 tenacity v 0 potency you still end with only a 15% chance to resist. (15-0=15)
Very different from starting with 100 potency, which would invalidate tenacity almost completely.
Even a bastilla lead would only ever get 15% resist chance, regardless of tenacity if that were the case

Hahaha wow...... enjoy misunderstanding the mechanics of the game nevertheless I'll take the word of Warrior(a game changer that has discussed with the developers and got confirmation by the them that this indeed is correct) over what you try and tell me. Again, welcome to the 90% crew.

That's fine, be willfully ignorant to game mechanics. I'll take the word of Kyno, a moderator here, as well as the other players and moderators who actually understand how the game mechanics work, rather than some random no-life YouTuber. To each his own :)

"Crazygone510;c-1632862" wrote:

"Gannon;c-1632861" wrote:
Yea that guy is wrong, ask a dev. You don't start at 100% potency. I've seen at least three separate comments by moderators stating this. At 6:40 this guy claims that toons start with 100% potency, but he's totally wrong.
At low levels, or if you don't understand the math, it may seem that way.. But it's a product of the tenacity-potency check. Even at base 15 tenacity v 0 potency you still end with only a 15% chance to resist. (15-0=15)
Very different from starting with 100 potency, which would invalidate tenacity almost completely.
Even a bastilla lead would only ever get 15% resist chance, regardless of tenacity if that were the case

Hahaha wow...... enjoy misunderstanding the mechanics of the game nevertheless I'll take the word of Warrior(a game changer that has discussed with the developers and got confirmation by the them that this indeed is correct) over what you try and tell me. Again, welcome to the 90% crew.

@Crazygone510 that guy is wrong. We can see the data mined formula for Tenacity and Potency in the actual game files. He's trying to give a dumbed down version of it which doesn't look that different but is functionally wrong as there isn't a 3rd separate check.

Appling a debuff goes thru 3 possible checks (technically 4) if the one before fails it doesn't matter about the others if any fails than it doesn't apply
1. Evasion - > is the abily evaded (dodged/deflection). Some abilites can't be evaded
2. Process/application rate - > this is in the ability description. If no % chance to apply is given than process rate is 100%. Some require other things to process like a crit hit
3. resisting - > tenacity vs potecny check. Chance to resist is tenacity - potency where chance to resist can't go below 15%, this is what the Dev's have stated it is. Some abilites the debuffs can't be resisted as stated in the ability descriptions and tenacity down can never be resisted.

The 4th check is actually 1st and that is immunity. Some characters (jyn with unique zeta is immune to stun) are immune to certain debuffs so it just skips all the checks and doesn't even attempt.

To the claim of every Debuffer gets 100% potency if it does state a % chance to apply is false. The Debuffer has 100% chance to "process" so it skips step 2 above but still goes thru step 1 and 3.
Sion AoE skips steps 1 and 2 since it is unavoidable and doesn't state an application rate however it still goes thru step 3 based on his modded potency plus any lead, buff or unique potency he may get. If he got 100% potency because his AoE doesn't give a application rate than zeta bastilla Jedi would rarely resist his debuff because he would have close to 200% potency with a traya lead and that.

So not having an % to apply just means 100% chance to apply (process step 2) still goes thru resist check (step 3)

2 different teams here. one in lower gear and one in g12+ and 16e mods. My sion has 117% Potency(3 sets). I tried with both ZMaul and EP(no zeta). With EP that would add the 35% putting sion at 152% With the 100%abilty potency that I claim exists would be 252% potency. My vader only has 75% potency so 110%potency with EP lead (210%with ability)

I also tried with a ZMaul lead and noticed vader only landed once but sion still landed his pain. 117% + 100%abilty potency is 217%.

Opponent: (Bastila 150% buff)
Bastila 37%Tenacity (187%)
GMY 33% Tenacity (183%)
Obi 49% Tenacity (199%)
Hoda 44% Tenacity (194%)
Ezra 41% Tenacity (191%)

https://youtu.be/xBW_QZKG29s

The better team with g12+ and 16e mods.

Bastila 42% Tenacity 192%
Obi 41% 191%
GMY 43% 193%
Ezra 44% 194%
Fulcrum 47% 197%

Apologize but game kept pausing which cuts video into 3 videos. But this was a great fight! Abilities do start at 100% potency.

https://youtu.be/8n3uTfPbaUI
https://youtu.be/bt2t0dyHYgU
https://youtu.be/ADZ4sjQ85xc

"Crazygone510;c-1634967" wrote:
2 different teams here. one in lower gear and one in g12+ and 16e mods. My sion has 117% Potency(3 sets). I tried with both ZMaul and EP(no zeta). With EP that would add the 35% putting sion at 152% With the 100%abilty potency that I claim exists would be 252% potency. My vader only has 75% potency so 110%potency with EP lead (210%with ability)

I also tried with a ZMaul lead and noticed vader only landed once but sion still landed his pain. 117% + 100%abilty potency is 217%.

Opponent: (Bastila 150% buff)
Bastila 37%Tenacity (187%)
GMY 33% Tenacity (183%)
Obi 49% Tenacity (199%)
Hoda 44% Tenacity (194%)
Ezra 41% Tenacity (191%)

https://youtu.be/xBW_QZKG29s

There is no ability potency unless stated in the ability like bastila basic attack.

In the vid sion landed pain on Ezra and bastila
191 - 152 = 39% chance to resist which is above min but not a lot. In my testing I have found 60% and below chance to resist might as wel be min chance to resist.

As long as the chance to resist is not 100% than debuffs can land based on good ol rng

The last video where sion lands on all but bastila is because the damage he did wipe all the protection up and they lost the bonus tenacity. Sion AoE order of operations is damage>dispel>apply pain so with 152% potency any of them with out protection up would have min 15% chance to resist.

Keep believing a wrong video though, sorry I shouldn't call it wrong because I have not watched the video and I don't need to as I was in on the discussions with Dev's that got the answers and prompted that video, so I will say keep interpretating the video wrong it is your choice to not have a correct answer.

We are both agreeing on the same thing but just worded it differently. You call it 100% chance to pass and he and I referred to it as "potency". But either way, it's nice to see debuffs landing. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

"Crazygone510;c-1635199" wrote:
We are both agreeing on the same thing but just worded it differently. You call it 100% chance to pass and he and I referred to it as "potency". But either way, it's nice to see debuffs landing. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

It is not the same thing. It looks the same but is functionally different. There's another recent thread where someone actually shows the maths that the video you thought was gospel is slightly wrong.

I'll post it here again since it's nearly the same discussion so it's relavent. I've never looked at the data mined source code so I won't claim to know what the truth of the matter is but here are some examples from the two way people have discussed.

My previous post from the other thread...

TL;DR some different calculations of chances for debufs to land or not... just because ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
TarlaBille wrote: »
"OK it's technically wrong but functionally the same thing. Who cares."

I know this doesn't mater at all but if you did want to calculate exact debuf rates then it's important to note that functionally it's not the same thing at all. Taking two examples in which the chance to apply effect case is met here is what you could expect from the two different versions of the calculation...
NB: I've called this (100 + Potency - Tenacity)/100 equation given above "chance to apply"
1) Probability of debuf fail = max(0.15, (Tenacity - Potency)/100)
2) Probability of debuf fail = 1 - (chance to apply * (1 - chance to resist))
= 1 - (((100 + Potency - Tenacity)/100) * 0.85)
Take a potency of 90 and a tenacity of 180 (e.g. a palp vs jedi type case)
in case 1) Probability of debuf fail = 0.9
in case 2) Probability of debuf fail = 0.915
Second case potency = 50, and tenacity = 55 (e.g. more traditional debuff toon vs common tenacity pre new mods)
in case 1) Probability of debuf fail = 0.15
in case 2) Probability of debuf fail = 0.1925
No idea if it's actually case 1 or 2 in reality but the second seems like a complete mess of a method to use.
Regarding this comment however,

Whatelse73 wrote: »
"If I can't do a mass stun of a whole team more than once or twice a week (3 mass stuns a match, times 5 a day times seven days = 105 attempts?) with my 150+ potency EP, then something is broken."

lets assume EP has infinite potency and the opponent has zero tenacity so best case scenario. Chance of landing 5 stuns is going to be (0.7*0.85)^5 = 0.075 so about 7 in every 100 attempts. I'd consider toning it down a bit on your potency to be honest because apart from bastila teams the extra that you are modding for is mostly wasted.