Forum Discussion

Astthengach's avatar
4 years ago

Jedi Master Luke needs some love [MERGE]

TL;DR: the upcoming changes strengthen all GLs but JMK and JML - JMK being mostly unaffected or even slightly buffed. JML will become weaker in most GL matchups, and his off-meta counters are largely unchanged. He could use something to bring him up, as the other GLs got.
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The road ahead presented some big changes to a bunch of characters, most importantly GAS, Vader and JKL. Notably, GAS got better with his clones, and Vader got some good utility, recovery, and a ton of crit chance to make up for his damage loss. In the meantime, JKL got 25% more offense and 195 more armor penetration (which only very mildly alleviate the damage loss from losing armor ignore), and 25% tenacity (which is virtually useless). He also gained true damage against non-GL tanks, which is good but extremely limited and doesn't really affect GL vs GL matches. This is expected, as the goal was to make non-GLs weaker vs GLs.

JKL is a staple of any JML team - while you can beat some weaker teams without him, going against most GL comps requires him, especially in squad arena. GAS is also extremely common and part of his best team. With these nerfs this team's damage drops drastically, thanks to GAS and JKL no longer ignoring armor or reducing the HP pool of the opposing GL. The team also loses control with GAS no longer increasing the cooldowns of the other GL, and since JKL's Jedi's Will is shared it means another character (generally GAS or JML) will also be dealing reduced damage.

Meanwhile, the JML vs SEE matchup got even worse thanks to the SEE buff. Jedi have plenty of locked buffs - Hoda's Master's Training, JKL's Jedi's Will, Bastila's Battle Meditation, and most notably JML's Jedi Legacy. This greatly limits the ability of JML to beat SEE, as SEE will be gaining TM constantly. The other Jedi GL is of course unaffected, thanks to his TM preventing lead.

If it seems like JML was hit hardest by these changes, it's because he was. Looking at the other GLs facing each other:

  • JMK doesn't use JKL and doesn't have to use GAS, his best team includes C-3PO instead. While C-3PO's confusion was nerfed, this nerf affects JMK less still (no TM gain to enemies anyway, and -50% defense is arguably better than cooldown increase on a GL) and in any case his primary role is reducing cooldowns to his own team - a role that is unchanged.
  • Rey doesn't have to use either JKL or GAS, and can use CAT as an Unaligned Force User. She also got a buff to Sudden Whirlwind which now makes her scale better with relics, and SEE's buff inadvertently makes her stronger against him - she can now gain mastery constantly when facing SEE. JML can technically make use of CAT, but he loses a lot in return, he's designed for use in a full Jedi team.
  • SEE grew stronger vs JML as noted above, and also thanks to GAS no longer being able to increase his cooldowns. He's unaffected against SLKR and JMK (stronger against JMK + GAS comps), and mildly weaker vs Rey if she swaps Lifeblood around, or has anyone who grants locked buffs on her team. Overall he's about the same in terms of GL balance, and much safer from off-meta counters.
  • SLKR is probably unchanged in terms of GL balance, but his off-meta counters are pretty much all destroyed now. He's in the same place he was vs GLs, but better overall.
  • JML is weaker against SEE thanks to the SEE buff, unaffected vs Rey most likely (her buff to damage won't be significant to him), mildly weaker vs SLKR (probably not enough for it to matter, but the GAS/JKL nerfs will affect him here) and weaker vs JMK thanks to those same nerfs. Meanwhile, his off-meta counters (DR being the big one) haven't changed in any significant way - while he can now apply debuffs through BSF's CBM, you can't ability block Sith Empire, and DR + BSF start the battle with foresight anyway - making them immune to his breach.


In addition to all these points, there are a couple more I want to bring up, which in my opinion are related:

  • JML has 15 less mastery than all other GLs. Purportedly this was done because he enters battle with Jedi Legacy and thus has double mastery from the get-go, but I don't think that's a good reason. At R8, JML has 120 mastery at the start of battle. Compare that to Rey (105 after lead, gains 5.25 whenever an enemy gains TM), SLKR (105 after lead, can siphon another 42 after a single critical Stasis Strike), SEE (112.5 after lead, gains 11.25 whenever a Deceived or Linked enemy takes a turn), or JMK (93.75 after lead, gains at least 46.8 on his first ult and potentially 187.5… it's clear that extra 15 mastery isn't significant at all, the difference is gone within a couple of turns.
  • JML remains the single GL incapable of stacking mastery. As noted above, all other GLs have ways to increase their mastery constantly, making them scale much better. JML and his team can increase their mastery by up to 60% temporarily, or double it once with his ultimate - but not both, and both require using Inherited Teaching instead of their main abilities. This is even more punishing against SEE and JMK, since they nullify the TM gains from Inherited Teachings, making it even weaker compared to using an attack.


    JML has always required at least one other strong Jedi on his team to beat GLs, making him a pricy GL. Now that these strong Jedi are being adjusted, he's becoming collateral damage, and worse even for the price of using him. Therefore, I think it's fair that he gets some sort of buff to compensate for his loss.

    Allowing him to stack mastery would be the ideal way to go in my opinion, as it would bring him on par with the other GLs in the one place where he was always behind. My suggestion - give some permanent mastery gains (5-10%) to the use of Inherited Teachings. This will make JML's team capable of ramping up over time while not being OP. They'd still have to use Inherited Teachings if they want to benefit from mastery increases.

    This is a long post I know, I hope it explains my issues with these changes.