Please do something about these GG nuke squads

"C_Augustus1;c-1972234" wrote:
This post is adorable. DR mirror matches are decided by who has the fastest BSF. Essentially, OP wants arena determined purely on luck.
In full disclosure as I have a nuke team and malak team, I will say that they have similar investments.

Luke’s quote once again applies. Everything you just said was wrong. DR matches, if you have Marauder, depend a lot more on the fastest DR than the fastest Bastila. I have the fastest DR in my shard. I can auto any other DR squad, even one with a faster Bastila. Even if you don’t run Marauder, fastest Bastila doesn’t necessarily determine who wins.

OP wants arena determined by who can gear and mod their squads competitively.

GG nuke team works with a single zeta G13 GG (hopefully with some relics), G12 T3 with two zetas and G11 IG, BB-8 and either IPD or R2. Sith Empire teams typically require triple zeta DR, double zeta Malak and usually zetas on HK and Bastila. The entire team needs G13 or at least G12. Not to mention the larger investment to acquire the toons to begin with. No, the investments are not similar. Not even close.

"DarkHelmet1138;c-1972246" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1972209" wrote:

"DarkHelmet1138;c-1972191" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1972171" wrote:

"DarkHelmet1138;c-1972154" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1972146" wrote:

"DarkHelmet1138;c-1972138" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1972136" wrote:

"DarkHelmet1138;c-1972135" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1972116" wrote:

"DarkHelmet1138;c-1971974" wrote:
For those that don't like the gg nuke team, it won't last long once the meta shifts. It requires the opponent to have lowered defense from ferocity to work.

This is not true. They land enough debuffs on their own to equal ferocity. Ferocity just replaces their debuffs as they drop off. This team will beat any team without tm on damage or some high tenacity schtick.

Do you really think the next meta won't have ridiculously high defense or tenacity or something that makes them also counter gg as well as darth revan?

It's not just that ferocity is a debuff that makes darth revan vulnerable. Ferocity turns your defense into offense, making that team particularly vulnerable.

I never said that any team could win. But there are plenty of ways already to control gg even at relic 7 with g12 toons alone. Stun, fracture, tenacity up, protection up, just to name a few.

I run ep lead with triumvirate against it in arena and gg usually gets at least one aoe off but unlike the darth revan most of my team survives and can control the team long enough to annhilate him fairly easily.

A bastilla lead works too because the protection up allows you to take enough hits to survive him.

There are already too many ways to counter him out to have him be arena viable in a non darth revan arena.

Who was predicting what the next META will have? Certainly not I. I was merely correcting an erroneous statement that GG nuke works because of Ferocity... it does not.

Ferocity lowers the defense of the sith empire characters. This plays a role in them being one shot by his aoe. I have run teams that don't use ferocity and they typically survive a few attacks and all you have to do is kill gg and the battle is won.

Look the only time Sith Empire actually has any defense whatsoever against the GG nuke team that can be affected by ferocity is when Darth Malak is below 50% health, and then it's only him, and only marginal.

It literally makes no difference to the GG nuke team. They have removed all the SE's defense before ferocity comes into play in between their own defense pen, the defense pen they get from T3, and defense down from 88.

Ferocity was the idea behind the original idea for the nuke team, but the evolved nuke team could really kind of care less about it.

Nothing in gg kit lowers defense for the gg nuke team. His leadership lowers it by 50% but gg isn't in the lead for the nuke team.

Ferocity lowers se defense by 15% per stack. So it does come into play.

Look I've done the math. First 88 cuts everyone's defense in half. Then T3 gives everyone massive defense pen which when combined with their own has a greater total than the defense the sith empire have left.

This isn't supposition. This is why they say T3's 2nd zeta and the g12 Stun Gun are mandatory for the comp to work.

Sorry but you're wrong. Ferocity can't lower their defense past 0%. it doesn't help like that. Nor is it even necessary.

I'm assuming you're referring to the defense down that ig has a 50% chance to land. Since ferocity also lowers tenacity by 15% per stack, it plays a role on whether the defense down lands. If it does, you are correct, that the defense can go to zero where ferocity doesn't matter for dmg.

But it does raise the chance of the debuff landing in the first place and it lowers defense in the case that the defense down is resisted, which from the kit it is resisted quite often. It only has a 50% chance on getting past the first test. Then it has a 15% chance of being resisted even with high potency so a 42% chance to land if you have 100% more potency than your opponent has tenacity and less if you have low potency or they have high tenacity.

But against teams tgat don't have ferocity and have some decent tenacity (either naturally or through mods) the defence dow is going to land on one or two characters on average. On a sith empire team it'll still be 3 or so but they all effectively give themselves 75% defense down whether it lands or not. That's enough to make one shotting them easy.

Actually the AoE that lands the defense down will be used before anyone has ferocity on the SE side. Also 85% is the maximum debuff rate, and that can be reached by having 15% less potency than your opponent has tenacity. Well modded Nuke teams have 100% potency, so teams with 115% tenacity or more will have a chance of getting more than minimum resists on debuffs. Really ferocity doesn't help debuffs land for the nuke team either.

I take first in arena with GG Nuke every day. Yesterday I defeated a Reliced Padme team with it to take first.

For IG to land the debuff it goes through 3 tests.

First it only has a 50% chance to try per his kit. Most newer kits skip this one and have 100% chance to try.

Second it has to get through the 15% resist chance.

Then if it gets that far, it does the tenacity/potency check. Basically tenacity minus potency equals chance to land with thos test.

Ferocity does play a role in that last test if it's on a character.

And as for your second point, padme teams aren't that great on defense. I beat them when I see them easily as well. All it takes is thrawn fracturing padme and the team falls apart.

And my original point wasn't that darth revan was the only team that gg nuke could beat on offense only that when the meta shifts and there are less darth revan teams to prey on, there will be less gg nuke teams since they work particularly well vs darth revan and not much better than other teams vs other teams. And they don't hold on defense all that well as it is. Or at least it's easy for me to send in a three meta ago team with only fair mods and mostly g12 and have a nearly 100% win rate.

I never said it wasn't viable to climb just that it'll likely not be a counter for the next meta. Though I'll admit my experience is mostly with the team on defense and yours appears to be on offense. That could make the difference.

My only point is that ferocity doesn't make or break that team, it's viable all on its own outside very high tenacity teams or ones with tm on damage effects.

That's what I said to begin with, everything else was in support of that.

It's a really good team that can beat a lot of teams outside of its few weaknesses. Lots of cleanse is another weakness, but if the team is weak they'll die even with lots of cleanse.

"DarkHelmet1138;c-1972266" wrote:

"TVF;c-1972264" wrote:

"Cardiff0;c-1972247" wrote:
Tbh most of these comments are super unrelated to OPs point and unhelpful and that’s why he is having to say the same thing over and over.

People disagreeing that anything needs to be done /= unrelated comments

Either that or it's trolling. Because the op posts a "wah, I don't like this team post," we should all just echo it and demand a nerf.

The comments are unrelated because a bunch of you are using a straw man. My original point (which has been repeated many times now) was that people shouldn’t be able to climb with crappy mods and mostly G11 toons on their squad. Seriously, go back and read the first line of the original post. I would have no problem with this team if it required G12/13 on all the toons and maybe at least one competitive speed set. My problem is not that I can’t beat this team (I can) or that I fall out of the Top 20 now (I don’t) or whatever other made up nonsense you want to ascribe to me. My words have been very clear that my issue with this team is that it allows people to climb to top ranks with purple gear on three toons and without mods that would normally be required to be competitive.

And post 3 covered it just fine.

"Liath;c-1965258" wrote:
Running this squad properly requires significant investment in characters that wouldn't otherwise warrant it, and requires specific modding as well.

But here we are.

"TVF;c-1972264" wrote:

"Cardiff0;c-1972247" wrote:
Tbh most of these comments are super unrelated to OPs point and unhelpful and that’s why he is having to say the same thing over and over.

People disagreeing that anything needs to be done /= unrelated comments

OPs point is that undergeared toons shouldn’t be beating fully relicd teams. Kind of a fair point tbh. I’ve seen some comments addressing it like those saying you do need good gear (IMO you don’t) but most are just unrelated to what he’s saying tbh, hence why he has literally had to repeat his point about 50 times.

And a fair few people just sound kinda butthurt that hes complaining about a team they use to climb.

I definitely don’t think they should actively do something about this, it’s far too late to redesign all their kits, but there is a point about game balance here when a mish mash group of random characters are basing a team around one OP ability/huge damage character and beating the best team in the game fully relicd

"TVF;c-1972289" wrote:
And post 3 covered it just fine.

"Liath;c-1965258" wrote:
Running this squad properly requires significant investment in characters that wouldn't otherwise warrant it, and requires specific modding as well.

But here we are.

Except that is false. The only toon it requires an investment in that wouldn’t otherwise be useful is T3. Hell, I’ve seen people running this in the Top 10 with G11 BB-8 with no zetas. So it doesn’t even require you invest much in the toons that ARE otherwise useful. It requires specific modding? So what? It doesn’t require mods that are hard to acquire or special in any way. Most people probably had the necessary mods sitting unequipped already.

"SoonerJBD;c-1972302" wrote:

"TVF;c-1972289" wrote:
And post 3 covered it just fine.

"Liath;c-1965258" wrote:
Running this squad properly requires significant investment in characters that wouldn't otherwise warrant it, and requires specific modding as well.

But here we are.

Except that is false. The only toon it requires an investment in that wouldn’t otherwise be useful is T3. Hell, I’ve seen people running this in the Top 10 with G11 BB-8 with no zetas. So it doesn’t even require you invest much in the toons that ARE otherwise useful. It requires specific modding? So what? It doesn’t require mods that are hard to acquire or special in any way. Most people probably had the necessary mods sitting unequipped already.

I'm still waiting for the 8,000 people in my shard storming their way to first every day because this is so easy.

"TVF;c-1972327" wrote:

"SoonerJBD;c-1972302" wrote:

"TVF;c-1972289" wrote:
And post 3 covered it just fine.

"Liath;c-1965258" wrote:
Running this squad properly requires significant investment in characters that wouldn't otherwise warrant it, and requires specific modding as well.

But here we are.

Except that is false. The only toon it requires an investment in that wouldn’t otherwise be useful is T3. Hell, I’ve seen people running this in the Top 10 with G11 BB-8 with no zetas. So it doesn’t even require you invest much in the toons that ARE otherwise useful. It requires specific modding? So what? It doesn’t require mods that are hard to acquire or special in any way. Most people probably had the necessary mods sitting unequipped already.

I'm still waiting for the 8,000 people in my shard storming their way to first every day because this is so easy.

I mean it’s pretty easy. You need 1 relicd char and 2 zetas (not including GGs)

Ok. Still waiting.

If it was such nonsense that GG can take 1, why are so few people running it? And therefore, why does it even matter? If you aren't falling outside the top 20, who cares? How does it affect you in the slightest?

"TVF;c-1972337" wrote:
Ok. Still waiting.

If it was such nonsense that GG can take 1, why are so few people running it? And therefore, why does it even matter? If you aren't falling outside the top 20, who cares? How does it affect you in the slightest?

I can only guess why it isn’t used so much. My guess would be that most serious players (and on old shards the people still there are serious) have DR and have invested into DR and so don’t see any point in investing in something else. Also that most players are not interested in climbing to 1st and taking payout.

Also your shard /= everyone’s shard ;) so OP might have more of a problem than others. I can only take him at his word that there are some people on his shard with 2 mil GP climbing to 1st. And he probly feels that is a bit of a violation, given the effort he has put in.

As for me, it doesn’t bother me at all. I mean I use it to climb when I couldn’t otherwise so I can’t complain really. And like I said I don’t think anything should be done about it. But it is a bit concerning about the state of the game when they lose control of game balance and unintentional teams (cheese teams at that) are popping up and that is what happened in my eyes.