NRaas Story Progression castes help

"CarryOnMyWaywardSons;c-16415460" wrote:

John and Jane apparently inherited the disallowed career settings from their respective castes since the number is in parentheses. However, it seems like I can still get those jobs? I thought the "join blah blah blah career" option would be greyed out and say "StoryProgression Denied" like it would if you try to flirt with someone you set Romance: Allow to false on, but it doesn't.

I'm pretty sure that using SP's Career:Disallow prevents the sims from entering those careers on their own and being able to stay in them, not that it would prevent the player from directing the sims to join them by either in-game commands or MC.

"CarryOnMyWaywardSons;c-16415460" wrote:
I also don't want certain castes flirting with each other or within the same caste. For example, Sims in the MaleBannedJobs caste are NOT allowed to have romantic relationships with Sims in the FemaleBannedJobs caste OR with Sims who are also in the MaleBannedJobs caste. However, they can flirt with Caste C and Caste D.

The Flirt options dictate on which pairs of sims SP can run Flirt Scenarios, not what the player can direct them to do. The player-directed commands on the Romance menu are not "Flirt Scenarios."

If you want to restrict player-directed romance options with NRaas mods, you have to use a different mod that we are not allowed to discuss on this forum together with SP (its name begins with a "W"). For that, we must move the discussion to NRaas.

Also, in the example given, you don't need to set Allows and Disallows at the same time. If something is Allowed by caste membership explicitly, it is understood that all other sims who are not members of the allowed caste are automatically disallowed.

"CarryOnMyWaywardSons;c-16415460" wrote:
All of the custom castes are Automatic and require all filters to be met before being assigned to a sim. I set it to Auto after I assigned them manually, however.

I'm afraid that I can't follow this. A caste is either Automatic or Manual, it can't be both and you can't add sims (by name) to an Automatic caste. I mean, you can, but then we get unreliable results.

If I decide that Sally, Suzie, and Frank are to be the three members of Caste A for no reason in the world other than I want them to be, then the caste must be and stay Manual. If Sally, Suzie, and Frank are the only sims in town who meet the filter criteria, you want sims who end up meeting the criteria at some future point to become members of the caste all by themselves, and you want any of the original three to drop out of the caste when they no longer meet the criteria, then the caste should be Automatic.

Automatic vs. Manual only governs who gets to be in the caste, not what its members are allowed to do once it has some.

I guess you've already looked here: Nraas faq

@jillbg Yeah, but I don't really understand.

This is the sort of thing where support for NRaas mods is (usually) better provided at NRaas. It's kind of what we are there for.

The hierarchy of SP Options goes Town > Lot > Household > Caste > Sim.

Settings on the left flow to the right and become inherited. They will show up on groups or sims on the right in (parentheses).
Settings explicitly set on the right will trump those on the left. They will show up without parentheses.

So by definition, Caste Options will always "override" Town Options as long as the sims you are expecting to ultimately adjust this way are really members of the caste in question. Caste Priority doesn't enter the picture unless a sim is a member of more than one caste at the same time (e.g., you have a Female caste, an Elder caste, and a Werewolf caste, so an elder female werewolf would belong to all three) and the castes have conflicting options settings among them. In that case, the highest Priority caste wins. If all of the castes have the same priority, which one wins out for just the conflicting settings will be random.

But none of this changes the fact that Caste Options always win out over Town Options.

I can give you some more detailed examples if this doesn't clarify things enough.

@igazor So it's like...for the Teen caste I can turn curfew on and the curfew will work, even if the Town Options curfew is off? Because Teen overrides Town? By this logic the settings in my castes should override the Town options, which are at default. I feel like the other castes that apply to these sims are being chosen over my castes because of the random thing you mentioned.


Could you give me those examples?

Curfew behavior is weird, let's look at a different example first.

SP > Town Options > Death:Allow Aging > True
SP > Caste Options > Vampires > Death:Allow Aging > False
SP > Caste Options > Females > Death:Allow Aging > (no options selected)
SP > Caste Options > Teenagers > Death:Allow Aging > (no options selected)
SP > Sim Options > Lucy Sim > Death:Allow Aging > True

In this case, everyone it town is aging except apparently vampires. Lucy is a teen female vampire, but she will age because her explicitly set Sim Options trumps the others. Caste Priority is not an issue because none of the other castes she belongs to (like Females and Teenagers) have an Aging setting selected and her own Sim Options would override those anyway. The other female vampires in town who are not Lucy will not age.

When a sim belongs to more than one caste, it doesn't mean that only one caste wins out and the others are disregarded, it's a setting by setting thing when the caste options are all applied together or superimposed upon each other if you want to think of it that way.
=====================

SP > Town Options > Death:Allow Aging > True
SP > Caste Options > Vampires > Death:Allow Aging > False
SP > Caste Options > Females > Death:Allow Aging > True
SP > Caste Options > Teenagers > Death:Allow Aging > (no options selected)

In this case, the entire town is aging except for vampires. But Females are explicitly set to age (for some reason). So if the Vampire caste and the Female caste have the same priority, it will be random as to which one's Aging setting gets applied to Lucy on a game session's startup. If Vampires has a higher Caste Priority set than Females, then Lucy will not age. If Females has a higher Caste Priority set than Vampires, then Lucy will age.
=====================

But as I said, curfews are weird. First of all, they are gated by General options that are going to take effect regardless.
SP > General Options > Options:Situations > Options:Grad/Proms/Curfew > Curfew Based on Work Days > (T/F)
SP > General Options > Options:Situations > Options:Grad/Proms/Curfew > Curfew Enforcement Days > (select days of the week to enforce curfews, or none at all)

Then we have these.
SP > (Town, Household, Caste, Sim) Options > Curfew:Begin
SP > (Town, Household, Caste, Sim) Options > Curfew:End
SP > (Town, Household, Caste, Sim) Options > Curfew:Force

These are the three that follow the hierarchy after the General options are applied. If the Begin and End times are the same, then SP falls back to EA standard, it doesn't mean that there is no curfew. There really is no way to completely not have curfews, at least not without a different mod, but we can select whether they are strictly enforced or not. Unenforced curfews tend to kick up moodlets when teens are out late for example, but they really shouldn't be rounded up by the police and dragged home unless something is misfiring or something else is getting in the way. I've seen this happen something like once with curfews unenforced, it was very annoying, and I quit without saving in order to replay that evening.

Note 1: The SP Extra optional add-on module is required to see/change any of these settings.
Note 2: Why not just use Town Options together with the General ones in this case? Curfews are only enforced on children and teens anyway. Well, I suppose also unaccompanied babies and toddlers, but those two age groups aren't supposed to be wandering around town on their own at any time of day. YAs and older should not be affected, they can stay out as long as they like.

@igazor I see. For one of my castes I want a group of, Teen, YA, A, and E males to not be allowed to have a set of jobs. Same goes for a caste of females with identical settings.

SP > Town Options > Career: Disallow > (no options selected)
SP > Caste Options > Males/Females > (no options selected)
SP > Caste Options > Teen/Young Adults/Adults/Elders > (no options selected)
SP > Caste Options > MaleBannedJobs/FemaleBannedJobs > Career: Disallow > (59)
SP > Sim Options > John/Jane Doe > Career: Disallow > (59)

John and Jane apparently inherited the disallowed career settings from their respective castes since the number is in parentheses. However, it seems like I can still get those jobs? I thought the "join blah blah blah career" option would be greyed out and say "StoryProgression Denied" like it would if you try to flirt with someone you set Romance: Allow to false on, but it doesn't.



I also don't want certain castes flirting with each other or within the same caste. For example, Sims in the MaleBannedJobs caste are NOT allowed to have romantic relationships with Sims in the FemaleBannedJobs caste OR with Sims who are also in the MaleBannedJobs caste. However, they can flirt with Caste C and Caste D. Caste C and Caste D cannot flirt with each other or within themselves, but can flirt with the two BannedJobs castes.

SP > Town Options > Flirt: Allow/Disallow Caste > (no options selected)
SP > Caste Options > Males/Females > Flirt: Allow/Disallow Caste > (no options selected)
SP > Caste Options > Teen/Young Adults/Adults/Elders > Flirt: Allow/Disallow Caste > (no options selected)
SP > Caste Options > MaleBannedJobs/FemaleBannedJobs > Flirt: Disallow Caste > MaleBannedJobs, FemaleBannedJobs
SP > Caste Options > MaleBannedJobs/FemaleBannedJobs > Flirt: Allow Caste > Caste C, Caste D
SP > Sim Options > John/Jane Doe > Flirt: Allow/Disallow Caste > (2), (2)

The castes in parentheses are the same castes from the BannedJobs castes, so they've inherited them but they can still flirt with MaleBannedJobs and FemaleBannedJobs. All of the custom castes are Automatic and require all filters to be met before being assigned to a sim. I set it to Auto after I assigned them manually, however.

It looks like my castes are being inherited and taking priority over the others in my sims' cases, so idk what's wrong.

I'm pretty sure that using SP's Career:Disallow prevents the sims from entering those careers on their own and being able to stay in them, not that it would prevent the player from directing the sims to join them by either in-game commands or MC.

That's fine, I'll just have to remember not to put my sims in those careers.

Also, in the example given, you don't need to set Allows and Disallows at the same time. If something is Allowed by caste membership explicitly, it is understood that all other sims who are not members of the allowed caste are automatically disallowed.

I didn't know that. I had a feeling that it was kind of redundant to do both but I didn't want to mess anything up. Thanks for that tip.

If you want to restrict player-directed romance options with NRaas mods, you have to use a different mod that we are not allowed to discuss on this forum together with SP (its name begins with a "W").

Ohhh ok, gotcha. Found the setting for that just now.

If I decide that Sally, Suzie, and Frank are to be the three members of Caste A for no reason in the world other than I want them to be, then the caste must be and stay Manual. If Sally, Suzie, and Frank are the only sims in town who meet the filter criteria, you want sims who end up meeting the criteria at some future point to become members of the caste all by themselves, and you want any of the original three to drop out of the caste when they no longer meet the criteria, then the caste should be Automatic.

See I didn't realize it should have been automatic at first, then I made it Automatic after I added sims manually. Should I remove everyone from the castes then, as you said, make it Automatic since I want future sims to also be in those castes? Or would it be better to delete the custom castes then remake them and do Automatic?

Btw, thanks for helping me through this today, I'm starting to understand how it works a little better.

"CarryOnMyWaywardSons;c-16415521" wrote:
See I didn't realize it should have been automatic at first, then I made it Automatic after I added sims manually. Should I remove everyone from the castes then, as you said, make it Automatic since I want future sims to also be in those castes? Or would it be better to delete the custom castes then remake them and do Automatic?

Btw, thanks for helping me through this today, I'm starting to understand how it works a little better.

I've done that before myself, or at least changed my mind about how a caste should be defined mid-stream. It's probably fine to just remove the sims from the caste, but I would delete the caste entirely and create a new one anyway just to be sure.

And you're welcome, that was of course entirely my goal. We like to give our users enough information so they can have fun with the mods and be dangerous at the same time. ;)