Gender Neutral Options.

I'm worried about how it would come across in text like if you were saying they the group but also had to
talk about what the gender neutral sim was doing in the group but the sim is also called they
surly they wouldn't call the sim it would they

"Sindocat;c-17887460" wrote:
"I noticed that some of the Sims in my neighborhood are Black (like Vivian Lewis). Is there a toggle I can use to prevent that from appearing in my game?"

No, of course I don't mind that Sims vary, and have diverse skin tones. But everyone asking to omit non-binary options, this is what you sound like. Maybe re-think why you have the objections you have.

You’re reaching and you know you are. I hate these topics because you cannot argue against them without appearing like the bad guy. It’s impossible to debate this. Inclusion is good, having it be a toggle is better. If I don’t want black/Asian/white/gay/lesbian/non-binary Sims in my game, that is fine. Because it’s my game.

I support adding it so people can represent themselves. Do it. Give me the option to disable it if I don’t like it. If I don’t want non-binary people in my game, that doesn’t impact anyone else. If I don’t want transgender people in my game, that doesn’t impact anyone else. Et cetera.

Give. Us. The. Choice. That's all we're asking. We're not asking for it to be not included, we're simply asking for the option.

"Justin;c-17886772" wrote:
The skintone update made random generated sims even worse. I hope this non binary thing doesn’t make it even more weird when it comes to their clothes. I would be more fine with it if we can somehow have a toggle to stop new random generated sims.

My solution to this is to, upon seeing a townie I don't like the look of, go into Manage Worlds (this has the added benefit of periodically prompting me to save my game, useful in case of crashes), and give that sim a complete overhaul.

My simworld is "50s sitcom", American-red-state level of traditional. But I am delighted that options exist so that no matter what kind of world people want to play in, we can all do it in game. As someone else put it:

"NoTalent;c-17887495" wrote:
Inclusion is good, having it be a toggle is better. If I don’t want black/Asian/white/gay/lesbian/non-binary Sims in my game, that is fine. Because it’s my game.

I support adding it so people can represent themselves. Do it. Give me the option to disable it if I don’t like it. If I don’t want non-binary people in my game, that doesn’t impact anyone else. If I don’t want transgender people in my game, that doesn’t impact anyone else. Et cetera.

Give. Us. The. Choice. That's all we're asking. We're not asking for it to be not included, we're simply asking for the option.

"NoTalent;c-17887495" wrote:

"Sindocat;c-17887460" wrote:
"I noticed that some of the Sims in my neighborhood are Black (like Vivian Lewis). Is there a toggle I can use to prevent that from appearing in my game?"

No, of course I don't mind that Sims vary, and have diverse skin tones. But everyone asking to omit non-binary options, this is what you sound like. Maybe re-think why you have the objections you have.

You’re reaching and you know you are. I hate these topics because you cannot argue against them without appearing like the bad guy. It’s impossible to debate this. Inclusion is good, having it be a toggle is better. If I don’t want black/Asian/white/gay/lesbian/non-binary Sims in my game, that is fine. Because it’s my game.

I support adding it so people can represent themselves. Do it. Give me the option to disable it if I don’t like it. If I don’t want non-binary people in my game, that doesn’t impact anyone else. If I don’t want transgender people in my game, that doesn’t impact anyone else. Et cetera.

Give. Us. The. Choice. That's all we're asking. We're not asking for it to be not included, we're simply asking for the option.

Yes exactly! ??.

The livestream didn’t say how they were doing to go about bringing gender neutral texts. ‘It’s not a destination but a journey.’
That’s very vague. They must have some ideas so why not share them? Even if they don’t work out at least we’d have some idea how they’re going to implement this.

I’ve got diversity in my Sims but I don’t want to lose he or she texts because that’s how I play and set up my stories.

So yes,
Give. Us. The. Choice.

"NoTalent;c-17887495" wrote:

"Sindocat;c-17887460" wrote:
"I noticed that some of the Sims in my neighborhood are Black (like Vivian Lewis). Is there a toggle I can use to prevent that from appearing in my game?"

No, of course I don't mind that Sims vary, and have diverse skin tones. But everyone asking to omit non-binary options, this is what you sound like. Maybe re-think why you have the objections you have.

You’re reaching and you know you are. I hate these topics because you cannot argue against them without appearing like the bad guy. It’s impossible to debate this. Inclusion is good, having it be a toggle is better. If I don’t want black/Asian/white/gay/lesbian/non-binary Sims in my game, that is fine. Because it’s my game.

I support adding it so people can represent themselves. Do it. Give me the option to disable it if I don’t like it. If I don’t want non-binary people in my game, that doesn’t impact anyone else. If I don’t want transgender people in my game, that doesn’t impact anyone else. Et cetera.

Give. Us. The. Choice. That's all we're asking. We're not asking for it to be not included, we're simply asking for the option.

Just out of curiosity, if someone was posting on this forum about how they wanted a toggle to get rid of every Sim of a particular skin tone, particularly if it was a skin tone that matched people who have traditionally been oppressed in real life, can you imagine how that would sound?

Nobody is forcing you to love people outside of your comfort zone, but it is hurtful when you say that these people should be able to be turned off with a toggle. Yes, I know that you're talking about Sims, but given it mimics language that is heard in day to day life for some people, it is still hurtful.

Personally, I love the idea of randomly generated non-binary and trans Sims, provided it is done in roughly the same distribution of real life. I think it would break the realism for the game if every other Sim was non-cis and obnoxiously loud about it. The vast majority of non-cis people I know look like normal people...probably because they are.

If a player who doesn't like non-binary and trans Sims encountered one in the game and became aware of it, then they could do whatever they would do in real life, whether it's be mean, limit interactions, or just be a general accepting person and get on with it because the vast majority of interactions between Sims isn't woohoo based.

My head-canon already has a few non-binary NPC (Morgyn Ember, obvs), but it has only impacted my game play in a noticeable way when my Sims have gotten romantic with them. Instead of a toggle, maybe treat it like real life and if you don't like someone for some reason like race or gender, don't interact with that person/Sim.

"CAPTAIN_NXR7;c-17887473" wrote:

"Sindocat;c-17887460" wrote:
"I noticed that some of the Sims in my neighborhood are Black (like Vivian Lewis). Is there a toggle I can use to prevent that from appearing in my game?"

No, of course I don't mind that Sims vary, and have diverse skin tones. But everyone asking to omit non-binary options, this is what you sound like. Maybe re-think why you have the objections you have.

I don’t think anyone here is asking for non-binary options to be omitted. I believe this is more about not wanting non-binary pronouns to replace “ he” or “she”. I’m not trying to speak for anybody else though, but this is something I would object to. My sim is either born he or she and anything beyond that should be optional.

That being said, I’d have no problem with npc’s being generated with different gender identities if that’s how they want to express themselves.
However, I would certainly be against full automatic replacement of he/ she with they/ them, just because it’s perhaps the easy way out from a development perspective.
Non-Binary (or whatever else is out there) could be optional in CAS similar to the way I choose either male or female, skin tone, hair colour etc. but where do you stop?

I think it's important to consider what can be added to this game. Simply saying "everything" is not realistic. I don't think everyone would want genders to be replaced with body type in the game for example. So I don't think asking for a toggle is unreasonable at all.

"ktalexander;c-17887515" wrote:


Just out of curiosity, if someone was posting on this forum about how they wanted a toggle to get rid of every Sim of a particular skin tone, particularly if it was a skin tone that matched people who have traditionally been oppressed in real life, can you imagine how that would sound?

Nobody is forcing you to love people outside of your comfort zone, but it is hurtful when you say that these people should be able to be turned off with a toggle. Yes, I know that you're talking about Sims, but given it mimics language that is heard in day to day life for some people, it is still hurtful.

Except nobody was doing that. Not in this thread anyway. That’s just folks turning it into something it isn’t.

But even so, why would there be a problem with asking for an option to turn off specific genetics? What if I only want blue Sims in my game, because in that specific save I prefer to play with Smurfs. Or an alien colony with pointy ears and big roundy eyes? Sorry Asians, Blacks, Whites, or Whatever you are, you’re not welcome. Just gotta turn you off there for a moment. This is Planet Green Skin Pointy Ears and Roundy Eyes.

So what? This is the Sims after all. Doesn’t mean I’m some kind of racist or bigot for asking. If someone’s hurt by that kind of request I guess that’s their problem.

"logion;c-17887575" wrote:

I think it's important to consider what can be added to this game. Simply saying "everything" is not realistic. I don't think everyone would want genders to be replaced with body type in the game for example. So I don't think asking for a toggle is unreasonable at all.

I agree. I think it’s very important for the team to develop tools that help us create anything or anybody we want. That’s the beauty of a life simulator, especially if it’s done well. The more options, the better. Whether that’s achieved by including toggles in CAS or in game shouldn’t make any difference, as long as the choice is ours.

When it comes to representing specific gender identities I just wonder how this will be added to the game that we currently have, without leaving anyone out. I just read that there are 72 genders! Probably more by the end of next year.

I do remember when the Pride flags were included in an update, one specific flag was omitted which caused a massive uproar. This is what I’m talking about. Where do you stop? If and when we get a non-binary toggle, another group wants something else. And so on and so forth.

I believe the Sims 4 core engine needs an overhaul and additional tools/ algorithms to make this whole inclusiveness thing meaningful for everybody.

I honestly wish people would stop wanting to add everything real life into this game. If we add something in the game, people will rage about the other few things they didn't include etc, ect. I'm so tired of people nagging about stuff that should be included and represented. I just want to play The Sims and forget about the world and the gender craziness, pronouns etc. And it doesn't matter what you add, people will never be happy. I see if in almost every game.

"ktalexander;c-17887515" wrote:
Instead of a toggle, maybe treat it like real life and if you don't like someone for some reason like race or gender, don't interact with that person/Sim.

But it's not real life.

If I want to delete every SIM toddler in the game because I don't like playing with them I have that option.
If I want to delete every dog in the game because I don't like dogs, I have that option.
If I want to populate my world with aliens and have no humans at all, I have that choice.
If they force gender neutrality into my game, I want the choice to turn it off.

I'm fine with an option being added in CAS for those that have been asking for it. However I don't want the game assigning this to my sims autonomously. It should be my choice if I want a gender neutral sim.