Gender Neutral Options.

"logion;c-17887523" wrote:

"Sindocat;c-17887460" wrote:
"I noticed that some of the Sims in my neighborhood are Black (like Vivian Lewis). Is there a toggle I can use to prevent that from appearing in my game?"

No, of course I don't mind that Sims vary, and have diverse skin tones. But everyone asking to omit non-binary options, this is what you sound like. Maybe re-think why you have the objections you have.

This is why we can't even have any discussion or objections about this because people like you make it into a you vs them discussion.

We all have different opinions on what they should add to this game, but as soon as we talk about representation, you are the bad guy if you have any objections or questions about it.

You're right, I do think that people who don't want entire categories of everyday people to exist are the "bad guys". I'm struggling to see how it would negatively impact you to have non-binary or trans Sims in the game and I can see how it would benefit people who like diversity, particularly those who identify as non-binary or trans.

I think the comparison between one type of bigotry and another is a sound one.

"CAPTAIN_NXR7;c-17887636" wrote:

"ktalexander;c-17887515" wrote:


Just out of curiosity, if someone was posting on this forum about how they wanted a toggle to get rid of every Sim of a particular skin tone, particularly if it was a skin tone that matched people who have traditionally been oppressed in real life, can you imagine how that would sound?

Nobody is forcing you to love people outside of your comfort zone, but it is hurtful when you say that these people should be able to be turned off with a toggle. Yes, I know that you're talking about Sims, but given it mimics language that is heard in day to day life for some people, it is still hurtful.

Except nobody was doing that. Not in this thread anyway. That’s just folks turning it into something it isn’t.

But even so, why would there be a problem with asking for an option to turn off specific genetics? What if I only want blue Sims in my game, because in that specific save I prefer to play with Smurfs. Or an alien colony with pointy ears and big roundy eyes? Sorry Asians, Blacks, Whites, or Whatever you are, you’re not welcome. Just gotta turn you off there for a moment. This is Planet Green Skin Pointy Ears and Roundy Eyes.

So what? This is the Sims after all. Doesn’t mean I’m some kind of racist or bigot for asking. If someone’s hurt by that kind of request I guess that’s their problem.

"logion;c-17887575" wrote:

I think it's important to consider what can be added to this game. Simply saying "everything" is not realistic. I don't think everyone would want genders to be replaced with body type in the game for example. So I don't think asking for a toggle is unreasonable at all.

I agree. I think it’s very important for the team to develop tools that help us create anything or anybody we want. That’s the beauty of a life simulator, especially if it’s done well. The more options, the better. Whether that’s achieved by including toggles in CAS or in game shouldn’t make any difference, as long as the choice is ours.

When it comes to representing specific gender identities I just wonder how this will be added to the game that we currently have, without leaving anyone out. I just read that there are 72 genders! Probably more by the end of next year.

I do remember when the Pride flags were included in an update, one specific flag was omitted which caused a massive uproar. This is what I’m talking about. Where do you stop? If and when we get a non-binary toggle, another group wants something else. And so on and so forth.

I believe the Sims 4 core engine needs an overhaul and additional tools/ algorithms to make this whole inclusiveness thing meaningful for everybody.

I have less of an issue with wanting an entire world of fantasy people than I do with turning off actual real world types of people in typical "realistic"* game play. I will always think it is bigotted to say "these types of people who are doing no harm to me should not exist" and I don't get the impression it's the ethos that the creators of the franchise stand behind. I don't think it would make sense in this sort of game.

I feel like I'm talking to a wall with much of this discussion. I think it's important for people who are reading it and possibly not feeling safe expressing their opinions towards inclusivity to know that they are not alone, which is why I joined in the conversation initially.

One last thing I can't help but to comment on is your statement of, "If someone’s hurt by that kind of request I guess that’s their problem." If you're knowingly hurting people, that says something about you, not them.

*Realistic as a world with cow plants and alien abductions can get...

"MagicaCat;c-17887657" wrote:

"ktalexander;c-17887515" wrote:
Instead of a toggle, maybe treat it like real life and if you don't like someone for some reason like race or gender, don't interact with that person/Sim.

But it's not real life.

If I want to delete every SIM toddler in the game because I don't like playing with them I have that option.
If I want to delete every dog in the game because I don't like dogs, I have that option.
If I want to populate my world with aliens and have no humans at all, I have that choice.
If they force gender neutrality into my game, I want the choice to turn it off.

Oh good, it sounds like you're well versed on deleting Sims. Why would deleting non-binary and trans Sims be any different, if you happened to notice them?

"Sharonia;c-17887754" wrote:
I'm fine with an option being added in CAS for those that have been asking for it. However I don't want the game assigning this to my sims autonomously. It should be my choice if I want a gender neutral sim.

I definitely agree with this, but don't see it happening. In CAS, we're never forced to choose a particular gender. I imagine that if you had a baby Sim that was identified as a particular gender at birth, but you felt like they didn't fit that gender as they grew up, they would be able to come out as non-binary or trans.

"ktalexander;c-17887815" wrote:
Oh good, it sounds like you're well versed on deleting Sims. Why would deleting non-binary and trans Sims be any different, if you happened to notice them?

Why should I have Sims I theoretically don't want in the first place forced into my game?

The problem probably, would be that a good part of their budget from now on will be employing programmers to get in and sort out some kind of code change or toggle to get it done and less spent on the gameplay and objects that most want.

The only answer possible that I use at present is to make all my own Sims and families up to and beyond the limit allowed for my game and delete any others that I don't want. Keeping a lot of them in the family bin to be the bartenders etc. I've got way over 250 Sims in one save and they seem to be the only ones turning up roaming the streets around to come in contact with. I did find Eliza Pancakes turning up as the bartender a lot before I got rid of her too.

Putting on this thread again. How will non binary option work? I.K. It is not a choice to be non binary, but it is a choice to transition, so will babies be born this way? If not, will adult townies be non binary, but townies generated younger will not be.

"MagicaCat;c-17887657" wrote:

"ktalexander;c-17887515" wrote:
Instead of a toggle, maybe treat it like real life and if you don't like someone for some reason like race or gender, don't interact with that person/Sim.

But it's not real life.

If I want to delete every SIM toddler in the game because I don't like playing with them I have that option.
If I want to delete every dog in the game because I don't like dogs, I have that option.
If I want to populate my world with aliens and have no humans at all, I have that choice.
If they force gender neutrality into my game, I want the choice to turn it off.

Do you have that choices though?
Game constantly populates worlds with sims. I don't think it's possible to get rid of a certain type of sims without mods — if you don't have enough elders in your game, it generates some. If you delete all the celebrities, it generates new ones, and I don't think you can delete all dogs too, because new strays will appear.

"BettyNewbie1;c-17887838" wrote:
Putting on this thread again. How will non binary option work? I.K. It is not a choice to be non binary, but it is a choice to transition, so will babies be born this way? If not, will adult townies be non binary, but townies generated younger will not be.

That's probably their headache at the moment and a great slice of the Sims 4 budget eaten up.

Why are you all so worried about it being optional or not when we already have some gender customization in game? Do you see any random generated townies with opposite body frames to their gender? No, you don't because that's optional. I think we have a pattern here, no?

"Justin;c-17887464" wrote:

"CAPTAIN_NXR7;c-17887109" wrote:
I have a simple question because I am but a simple man...He/Him/Dude or IT on days when I look like a clown.

If gender neutral was to be added aren’t there other gender identities that need to be added? Or how should I see this? How does this work? Should I not call it gender identity?
You have to forgive me but googling anything gender related these days confuses me.

I understand folks want to be represented ‘n all, but from a developers point of view I can imagine that trying to implement different gender identities and different pronouns and make it work for everybody (without offending anyone) would be a complete and utter nightmare!

Which genders should be included, or is it only the additional one (gender neutral) and then everybody will be happy?

Theres a reason why these pronouns don’t exist for made up genders in other languages. Because there’s only two genders & they exist in the game already. You can’t change your chromosome based on how you feel. If that was the case I’d be a hairy mermaid out at sea waiting for my hunk sailor boy. But I’d end up being locked up for being a danger to myself?

You can be whatever you want. :smile: Btw, you don't get to decide how many genders there are. Gender is different from sex, maybe do a research on that :smile: