Adding height to The Sims 4 or maybe it will be a Sims 5 edition

@SimmeringPassion ,

I'm so thankful I made you laugh. Everyone could use a little laughter, especially nowadays! Just thinking about Yamachan being 10 feet tall makes me laugh so hard lol! It's kind of like when you right click on an object and it gives you the option to "Set as head" for a Sim. So then you can literally have a 10 foot refrigerator with a body walking around. Some of those cheats are just too funny.

So, this is for you. I can't remember the exact words the Sims say when they gain that specific sentiment, but it goes something like, "I'm so happy you don't think my llama jokes are lame." Maybe I'm way off, but it's definitely for you. 😃

Don't hold your breath because it's not as simple as just making one sim taller or another sim smaller and bingo,  you're done!  Speaking as a self-taught 3D artist and self-taught coder, the problem is that in order to keep one sim from kissing another's knees (lol nice example OP) is that targets are generally created during the coding, adjusted during modeling and then positioned during the animating process.  For example in order to reach the lips of Sim A by Sim B, Sim B must tilt its head downward by angle s while Sim A tilts its head upward by angle r.  Then if Sim B decides to kiss Sim C, Sim B instead has to tilt its head upward by angle r and Sim C has to tilt its head downward by angle s where r and s are variables designated to angle of tilt for kissing.  That's just for the head.  Any physical interaction between sims would also have to be adjust so that if Sim B is trying to brush the cheek of Sim C for example, Sim B's hand isn't actually brushing the air above Sim C's head.  So now, instead of having one action animation that fits all sims of that age group, you have to have many animations for each sim of every height variation.  After all, trying to kiss someone that is a full foot shorter than you is a lot different than trying to kiss someone that is just an inch or so shorter.  Coding could be written perhaps to adjust these different angles but again coding is tricky.

Think about how one game would likely have upwards of a million lines of code (I've never programmed a game so can't be certain), however from my own limited programming experience I can tell you it takes a lot of code to perform some simple tasks.  Also coding is a lot more demanding than say writing a thesis.  In a thesis if you misspell a word or misplace a comma, you get points off for it.  If you misplace a comma or misspell a word in a massive code, the code breaks.  

So imagine trying to tell a computer to tell a skeleton to tell a body that there is someone in front of it that wants to kiss it.  Then telling that computer to tell that skeleton to tell that body where that someone's lips are.  Now the computer has to adjust how far the head and the back have to tilt and if perhaps one sim may have to raise itself up on its toes while the other sim bends its knees.  Typically from what I've learned by talking to people in the industry, animations are done then adopted by all characters so that these details are dealt with.  However, adding height variants suddenly takes away the possibility of creating a one size fits all animation loop and now coders have to manipulate the skeleton (called the rig) to meet each individual encounter.  That sounds to me like massive code re-writes.  

That's just for height.  A lot of what people (myself included) would love to see in the game simply can not be done after the initial coding is written without risking a full breakdown of the entire code.  Coding can be very strong and powerful but coding is always more fragile than glass.  The whole plane of glass is always just one crack away from shattering.

So that's my perspective based on my personal experience.  Perhaps in four years, after I've gotten my BAA in game development, I'll have a clearer understanding and find out I'm wrong but I don't see how.  

Anyway, I've always loved the idea of height variation but until I started playing with modeling, rigging and animating objects as well as picking back up on basic programming in office settings, I didn't realize just how much goes into a single line of code and just how fragile an entire game can be.  After all, how many times does a new update come out and suddenly people start reporting new breaks in seemingly unrelated areas?  That's the nature of glass, it splinters before it breaks.

@000Unavailable,

I am always happy to have a “lame” laugh, because as far as I know it’s not a lame laugh but just a laugh, I love your humour and it really makes me laugh out loud!

Thank you for the refreshing sense of humour! Who doesn’t love a laugh! I know I can’t resist comedy no matter the form!

I love being a part of this community for everything it brings that’s including your humour!

I remember setting my sims head as a mailbox as my first experience of mods I remember my sim walking round as a mailbox headed sim, it was a very crazy time 🤪😏 I love your comments and everything it brings!

@PenguinFoop 

I know what goes into coding for teaching myself coding as well! I appreciate your comments I love reading them! 😏 

I know height is all about the coding because I’ve been there myself! Omg have I been there!

I know I have seen the many problems that the simmer creators face and I feel for them! I know as a person interested in the same field I get their and your hearts! 

I have read everything you are saying and I appreciate your comment and welcome your comment and presence to the chat!

I love new comments, ideas and prospectives! I know everything you’re saying is the truth I have some level of understanding (not all but some) I know some of the struggle that goes into it (not all because I know I don’t know everything) but I feel their pain!😜🤪😝😏😂🤣😉😝🤪

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@SimmeringPassion wrote:

@PenguinFoop 

I know what goes into coding for teaching myself coding as well! I appreciate your comments I love reading them! 😏 

I know height is all about the coding because I’ve been there myself! Omg have I been there!

I know I have seen the many problems that the simmer creators face and I feel for them! I know as a person interested in the same field I get their and your hearts! 

I have read everything you are saying and I appreciate your comment and welcome your comment and presence to the chat!

I love new comments, ideas and prospectives! I know everything you’re saying is the truth I have some level of understanding (not all but some) I know some of the struggle that goes into it (not all because I know I don’t know everything) but I feel their pain!😜🤪😝😏😂🤣😉😝🤪

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Yeah, coding is a nightmare when it breaks but breathtaking when it doesn't.  Lol  Maybe we can chat in private some time.  I live a pretty isolated life so those I know don't have any idea or inclination toward this so it would be great to have someone that gets the struggle. 🤓

@SimmeringPassion @PenguinFoop The mod I use is the Height Slider by GODJUL1. This mod links the foot slider in CAS to directly change the height of a Sim, i.e. bigger feet means taller Sims, smaller feet means shorter Sims. I can't post a link in this forum the this mod can be found at the Mod the Sims website. The file-size isn't very large (2.78 kb) and using it does not seem to slow my game down at all & and my FPS rate is pretty much the same when I use this mod as in test saves where I don't. I like for the Sims in my game to come in all different shapes, sizes, and colors, and this mod definitely does affect every Sim in my game, including NPCs, randomly-generated townies, everyone except for pets.

I am no expert at all when it comes to coding, but much of the height-related compensation for tall Sims interacting with shorter Sims already seems to be either in the base game or in this mod itself. I'll use a modded version of the base game Goth family to provide some examples of what I am referring to:

In this example I have made Mortimer taller, not like freakishly tall but taller than average, while I have made Bella shorter than average by about the same amount (using the MC CAS module of MCCC to assign a number value to a foot size with a range of +100 to -100 and with 0 being the default size of an un-modded Sim, I have made Mortimer a +20 and Bella a -15).

For most interactions the animations look pretty good and there is definitely seems to be some kind of compensation for their different heights going on here. When they hug you can see there is a clear height difference but the interaction looks fairly natural. When they hold hands their hands appear to meet rather than the taller Sim having his hands much higher than the shorter Sim (like they were playing patty-cake or something). You can also see that Bella is reaching up to massage Mortimer's shoulders rather than having her hands somewhere further down on his back.

The animations look very normal when either of them interact with items around the house. A short Sim (Bella) interacts with the stove to cook some grilled cheese (yum!) and a tall Sim (Mortimer) washes his hands in the sink to get ready to eat those tasty grilled cheese sandwiches.

For their daughter Cassandra I made her even shorter (her foot size is a -20 using MC CAS). Since her mother is still a young adult I wanted Cassandra to appear to be a young-ish teen like maybe 15 years old or so. There is a significant height difference between her and her father. In a vanilla no-mod game they would be the same size, yet she definitely appears to be tilting her head up and looking upward to his face when they chat. She gets her dad the old electric hand buzzer trick (I can't believe he fell for that one!) and their hands are at the same level. Dad forgives her and gives her a loving hug and the animation looks fairly natural. Cassandra also interacts just fine with items around the house.

So anyway, this mod isn't perfect. When a tall Sim kisses a short Sim their lips don't quite line up. Even then it's much closer than it would be without at least some height compensation going on and it's not all that noticeable unless you are looking close. I haven't created any extremely tall or short Sims but if I did I expect the animations would look less and less natural as the size difference gets greater. The other odd thing with this mod is their Sim avatar portraits in the lower left corner of the UI are a bit off for either very tall or very short Sims, though this doesn't really affect game-play at all. I expect if EA ever added this feature to the game that their version would be more polished; however, until they do mods like this is all we'll ever have.

P.S. Just word of warning, I have not yet updated my game for the Dec. 7th game patch so I am not certain if this mod is still compatible.

@RandomBuzziness That's very interesting!  perhaps it wouldn't be as difficult at I had figured.  I'm not sure how mods work but apparently they work well with the core coding otherwise they wouldn't work at all so maybe there is a hope for a height differential after all!!!!  Thanks for sharing this!  I hate to be wrong but when I am, it's always good when it's for the right reasons.  😃

Edit:  Unfortunately, I'm on console so mods aren't an option for me or I'd definitely check it out!  I hope that they can implement it or use it at least as a starting point in their own version.

@SimmeringPassion ,

You're so welcome! I really am happy I made you laugh. Thank you for making me laugh, too and for all your kind comments! This topic and chatting or sharing ideas and jokes with you has been so much fun. As I said before too, hopefully it'll make the creators laugh if not anything else. 😃 You know it's a serious topic when Yamachan and sentiments are involved ha ha.

@PenguinFoop and @RandomBuzziness ,

Thank you for the information you shared on this topic. It was very helpful! I didn't realize there's a chance that it would be that complicated to make a height slider that works 100%. We'll definitely keep hoping for it though because that MOD makes it seem more possible. 👍

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@000Unavailable wrote:

@PenguinFoop and @RandomBuzziness ,

Thank you for the information you shared on this topic. It was very helpful! I didn't realize there's a chance that it would be that complicated to make a height slider that works 100%. We'll definitely keep hoping for it though because that MOD makes it seem more possible. 👍

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Yeah no problem and as I stated I am by no means an expert.  And the Mod does seem very appealing so it does look possible.  Maybe they will implement it!!!  If so, I'll be so happy!

@PenguinFoop I don't think you were wrong at all in your earlier post. You were simply pointing out that the coding would be very complicated and I am sure you are very much correct in this. I think we possibly just underestimated how much of that complex coding has already been put in the game.

As for mods for Sims 4 on consoles I think it's still a possibility at some point in the future. Mods are available for games like Skyrim SE and Fallout 4 on XBox One and PS4 so it seems like it would technically be doable. All of the mods I am using for Skyrim on my XBox One were originally PC mods that were ported for use on consoles. A big difference is that those games are in their final versions and no are longer having any new content being added (and no more patch updates), whereas Sims 4 will still be getting new content for at least the near future. The biggest headache for me as a mod user (and I'm sure even doubly more so for mod creators) is constantly having to update mods for new Sims 4 content and new game patches. I'm not complaining here, it's my choice to use mods and my responsibility to keep them updated. I'm just saying this part makes it all much more complicated. Perhaps after EA is finished with Sims 4 and has moved on to something new (i.e. Sims 5?) then we could see mods become available for console players, and if so they will very possibly be console versions of mods that already exist for PC players.

I don't work for EA and I don't have any inside information on any of this so yeah I'm just completely guessing on everything here :D

I must say, I'm starting to get the feeling that maybe it really is almost time for The Sims 5. It just kind of seems that way, but I could be wrong.

@000Unavailable@RandomBuzziness

I know sims 4 has been out for years but I still love it so so much! I want the sims 5 but i still haven’t played all the packs yet! Haha 😆

I feel like with the sims 5 it might revolve more about the players experience with mods and maybe visiting other players worlds and house in real time, it’s just a thought but a possible one in my head, I see it becoming a more mod compatible game which would be great because then it would allow players to have what they want a bit more that would appease everyone that little bit more!

Message to all!

I love what this chat have became! It’s magical how we have grown as a topic now!

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@SimmeringPassion wrote:
@000Unavailable@RandomBuzziness

I know sims 4 has been out in years but I still love it so so much! I want the sims 5 but i still haven’t played l the packs yet! Haha 😆

I feel like with the sims 5 it might revolve more about the players experience with mods and maybe visiting other players worlds and house in real time, it’s just a thought but a possible one in my head, I see it becoming a more mod compatible game which would be great because then it would allow players to have what they want a bit more that would appease everyone that little bit more!

Message to all!

I love what this chat have became! It’s magical how we have grown as a topic now!

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I agree!  When I first bought TS4 I tried it, hated it and swore never to play it.  So months later, I gave it another try and in so many ways I suddenly love it!  There are of course things I miss about TS3 but all in all and overwhelmingly, I love TS4 and actually am dreading the idea of having to adjust to a new game.  

Of course that doesn't mean TS4 is perfect but the beauty of TS4 is that it's so customizable.  AND the only game in my 50 years that I've actually ever bought an expansion for.  So yeah, not really feeling that it's time to move on to TS5 yet.  In fact, I'll probably not play 5 when it first comes out.  I love and support the teams that give us TS but just not even the slightest bit ready to move on from TS4.

OH!  Unless TS5 gives us height sliders!!!!  Then I might buy it before any of you!  👿

One thing I hope you're wrong about though is TS5 being Modcentric.  If that happens, it divides us all from each other again.  As a strictly console player, mods for Sims has always eluded my grasp so if that trend continues and TS5 does become more Modcentric, then consolers would once more not be able to share or download from pc users.  So the community that TS4 has finally brought completely together would once more be splintered.  

@PenguinFoop @000Unavailable 

I remember when TS4 came out I had a hard time adjusting with the new graphics of it and mown i cant see the sims without the graphics it has now! I want to experience all TS4 has to offer and I love I it! 

Idk where TS5 will head but any thoughts a good thought!

It just makes me really sad...or upset, I don't know, frustrated maybe? That the entire reason for the sims 4 having teens the same height as adults was that it was easier, saved money, and was less time to do since they didn't have to animate interactions with the different height. Teens are and should be a unique life state with their own CAS assets, different clothes from adults at least, young adults and teens I agree with having similar styles, but think about a 16 year old wearing the same thing as a 50 year old, that's how I see my teens and adults.

This was just a cheap, fast way for the sims team to please EA, which is upsetting, just like with leaving toddlers out for a while. I want unique teens again, with their own styles, own animations, and not the same height. They are a different life state, they should be treated like one, just like children, toddlers, and babies.

A height slider to me, with no knowledge of how to code something like that, seems to be rather tricky, but maybe if they gave us a handful of different preset heights to use, that would be simpler? Like even if we were just given "short, average, tall" as height presets for each age. Could be an interesting idea, but I do see people complaining about not proper representation with those types of presets.

@SimmeringPassion ,

Aww gee...thanks a whole bunch! Your posts had the same affect, believe me! 😃

I know what you mean, because I can't stop thinking about him being 10 feet tall either! All of the sudden the world starts shaking in TS4. One of the Sims asks (in Simlish, of course), "Is there an earthquake???" Another Sim looks out the door and says, "No, that's just Yamachan. Hey, Yamachan!" That would probably be one of the biggest events in the history of The Sims lol.

This kind of has absolutely nothing to do with the height slider, but your name reminded me of how funny it is when Sims are really good at playing the piano and they can jazz up the place. First off, just watching that specific Sim playing the piano and listening to the song that's being played during that time is so funny, but then the funniest part to me is how the rest of the Sims act when the place is being jazzed up. They'll stand there and nod and occasionally react in some other kind of way lol! It's kind of like when a Sim is horrible at playing the violin, but they'll still gather around the person, listen, and give them a tip as if they're putting on such an amazing show! These Sims sure get bored an awful lot and love being entertained, don't they? I guess it was always COVID-19 in their world lol. A Sim goes over another Sim's house or they invite another Sim over and after a little while they go straight to the TV or computer ha ha.

@SimmeringPassion and @PenguinFoop ,

Yes, the graphics are so amazing in this game! I love how there's so much detail around every lot and it's not just empty land. Even if there are just a bunch of trees and lakes, it still makes it look so detailed. Even if it's not an open world where they can just go to one lot and another, it's still neat that you can see other Sims and pets walking around. Sometimes I want to go back to TS3 to give it more of a chance because I didn't play very much with that one, but comparing the way it looks to TS4 makes it very difficult for me to go back. Just the lighting itself is more amazing and the way the Sims actually act and look. So, I definitely understand what you mean. Sometimes I'm ready for TS5 and then there are times when I don't want TS4 to end, because I feel that a lot more could still be added, but if they do first add the height slider in TS5, then I think I'll have to let this one go ha ha. TS2 was also fun! I remember how exciting is was to first see the game in 3D animation and I do remember the bigger variety of heights between the Sims, which I miss as well. Even the original game was fun to me. Some of the activities and packs were a ton of fun. But comparing the graphics and the options you have...it'd be very hard to play now! Talk about being kind of spoiled, huh?

@Shae1664 ,

I really do understand why you're frustrated....these Sims could be more different/unique. To be honest, I was very surprised that they ended up making teens the same height as young adults. Having different age groups in the future would be nice too, because they go straight into their 20's when they have their birthday and they were just in high school a day ago. Another thing is that if two Sims are a couple when they're both teenagers, if one of them ages up to young adult, they have to wait until they're both aged up to young adults to have any romantic interactions again because there's no age in between. Just a lot to think of to expand TS4 a little or to add them to TS5. I know the makers are very capable. Look at the difference in graphics between the original game and TS2. They could do so much and they would do an awesome job, I know it.

@000UnavailableOMG I saw it the same way!

But firstly that is there an earthquake and then no that’s just Yamachan made me laugh so much!

The second half made me laugh even more that my cheeks hurt a little bit hahaha! It’s so true they will go straight for the technology! Maybe to watch their favourite soap that their missing out on while they’re there! Or maybe to go play their version of sims on the computer!? We just don’t hahaha I’ve always had the trippy thought of imagine they’re like us thinking they’re sentient beings but really their being controlled by someone else on a computer! Really gives me an inception thought! Hahaha

Love your text colour too! I’ve tried to think about doing a colour like that but I just don’t know what one so I left it out!

They'll always give minimal effort and energy even when the sim has mastered the skill set for that instrument! 

@000UnavailableIkr! I have went through everything you said! I remember I went back to the sims 3 and I played it for about 5 minutes and the battery quit because I couldn’t take the graphics anymore lol! I also miss the sims 3 the way they used to cuddle in bed! I always imagined how TS4 would do I would be more realistic but I was wrong! There’s no sleep time cuddling!

A height slider would be also a must to buy the sims 5 though foreal