Pack Refreshes

@Devancon11 I agree that Outdoor Retreat (as well as Dinning Out) could use a refresh.  Game Packs were a new thing when those 2 were released, and over the years they have been more fleshed out than these 2 were. 

I do love the idea of a Summer Camp for kids and teens .🥳  Might be difficult for rotational players (just like Discover University was difficult for those types of players), but there are some of us who don't usually play rotationally, so this would be a nice addition! 

Thinking about each of the interesting points you made, I replied to each one:

-children would go for the entire summer   -- I would still hope for some of the summer to be spent with the family, but a good chunk of the summer they can go to summer camp

-teens are aloud a counselor job -- yes, I think teens being allowed a counselor job would be a good addition! Maybe it would have some sort of reward if they had this job applied to an adult job or aspiration. 🤔 I hope there would be some benefit from having such a job that would affect gameplay, but it isn't necessary.  

-(young) adults will be park rangers -- do you see this as an active job, or a rabbit hole job.  I think an active job would be fun, but that seems a bit too much for a Game Pack, so I don't think that would happen. 😞

-lakes are a new water feature (i feel like this isnt necisary to add) -- I believe there is already a lake by the Hermit's House in the secret area

-parks, new lot type -- I'm not sure what you mean by this one 🤔, because the whole area is considered one big park, like a state or national park in real life. Do you just mean a playground area? Also, what new lot type do you have in mind?  

Anyway, hopefully they will do a refresh on this pack in the near future! 🥳🤞

I like your idea but I think it should be its own separate pack instead of being creammed into an Outdoor Retreat refresh.

Outdoor Retreat doesn't need a refresh because although it is an older pack it covers the idea of camping well.

I would like to see a few small patches that make activities that can only be done by single Sims group activies like:

• Going on a nature walk
• Finding collectibles such as bugs and plants
• Exploring the forest to find the hermit

I also would like Sims to be able to view collectibles such as the bug and frog cases like they do art. Squeamish Sims will not enjoy this activity. 😉

Some great ideas here.

I love outdoor retreat. I'd love to be able to edit the Hermit's cottage as on console I can't do that and I've got Claire Huber the hermit in a beautiful and picturesque location but her home needs work. I'm not talking glass walls and Scandi modern living but certainly I'd like to make her a cosier cottage as she always looks unhappy and unkempt, bless the poor love. I did get her some nice clothes though in keeping with her style, country patchwork chic!

I'd love a waterfall feature to be added somewhere that can be used on regular lots, just a small one as I keep trying to create my own but they mainly consist of ponds on steps! I'd like to be able to release the frogs in the garden too as I love frogs as a country girl myself and had 2 pet frogs as a child. My Sims ponds always have frogs on lily pads but I'd love to add the rare ones so you can see them and not just catch them.

There's not that much for kids to do at Granite Falls so I generally don't take them. I edited a few of the holiday homes to make them kid and pet friendly but an outdoor themed play area/kids camp would be good. I might try that one day if I get Little Campers.

In the UK we have things called Assault Courses (no we don't beat people up) or Outward Bound courses, in the US it might be a kind of boot camp I suppose. With climbing walls/rope climbs, ziplines, high wire rope walks, tire jumps and more. All of these probably aren't feasible but I'm sure some would be. Even a rock climb would be good as I love this in Snowy Escape.

I've played granite falls every which way, my Sims stay there for weeks. Some of them take fireflies home and add them as decor. Maybe a (kinder and critter free) firefly jar lamp could be a new item as a reward.

The aspiration needs a little work too as it's pretty buggy. It gets confused if your Sim already knows the Unidentified Plants and won't unlock without the hassle of rooting through every bit of fruit in the inventory till you find one in the batch that says Unidentified. Spending the night in the tent 5 times is also tricky, if your Sim doesn't stay in the tent for a strict number of hours it won't register.

I'd love pony trekking to be added. It's been said that horses would be tricky to add and I've tried to suggest every which way to add them somewhere so here's another one! Pony trekking in the forest!

Outdoor Retreat:
If there are summer camps, I think the Sims 4 would have to really tweak the aging settings for how long a sim is a child or a teen. There would also need to be a summer holiday that would probably only last a few Sims days and it would work like a rabbit hole similar to how scouts and acting do. It would be nice if teens could have a camp counselor side job and adults could have Park Ranger careers, but I think they would again just be rabbit holes and at best you'd unlock clothing and maybe get small rewards going up the ranks. So I don't know how much that would actually impact game play. I have nothing to say about parks. *Shrugs.*

Other Packs:
I'm sure this is asking for far too much of EA, but the latest packs have really made me long for revamps of the previous ones that have worlds and residents. No offense to EA's builders, (after all, they are more focused about creating the game and not building "dream" starter homes) but I cannot help but think having some of the existing lots be remade by Sims Creators.

I'm not saying every single lot, but the ones that at least have premade townies could have some up-dos as well as a starter home or two. Seeing lilsimsie's video of trying to remake the empty Strangerville house in the top cliff was great. It had the same vibes of the original but was more aesthetically pleasing.

Now, some may argue, "Well, then just download her build from the gallery" or "Edit it yourself." The thing is, one, I do not want to replace that lot every time I start a new game. It would be nice if it was still default. Two, if anyone who follows Simmers on videos who build or have been Creators for the recent builds should know that every default lot is made to cater to all players, meaning they are built with those with low specs to be able to play more smoothly. Three, not all of us are builders. Some of us like to just play and may edit the build here and there over time, but keep the main structure. Again, it would be nice to have a more aesthetic structure that makes good use of the space.

Another thing I wonder about is if EA can go back and tweak or edit some of the smaller worlds in the previous packs to be more expansive like how Cottage Living, Wedding Stories and Werewolves have been. I mainly keep thinking of the Vampires pack, really. It has always felt so small and now it feels even smaller than before. An idea I had was remake Vlad's Manor into a community lot like how the library is in Werewolves. It could hold old as heck computers for the Vampires to use since none of them have a lick of technology in their homes. There could also be a gym area and a semi-functional cemetery. A Sim in your family died but you don't want the gravestone/urn on your lot or inventory? You can take the gravestone there. A family member died off the lot? It could spawn at the cemetery. Your Sim witnessed a death or found the gravestone of a friend sitting around? They can take it to the cemetery.

So where would Vlad be then? He'd have a shell castle that works like Michael Bell's cottage or Greg's trailer. He could hang around there. There could be a gate or sign to help you summon him. So where would this be located? That boarded up cave that is fairly useless outside of letting bats fly out sometimes? Make that a portal that leads you to the lot Vlad lives on. It could work similarly to the portals that you can use to leave hidden areas like the Sylvian Glade, the Forgotten Grotto or the hang out spot in Windenburg. It would also be a place that is so well sheltered by trees that he will not burn when it is sunny. (If you really want to kill him with the sun, take him elsewhere.)

It would also be cool if one could actually access the small island at the lake somehow. Maybe you could find something rare or interesting there along with some lore on the tombstone.

The Werewolves pack also really made me more interested in having some real premade Sim lore for Vampires and Spellcasters. A diary by Vlad and/or one of the Vators that you can discover that sheds more light into the creation of vampires, the uprising, the turning of Lilith and Caleb, some more info on Miss Hell and the like. The same for the Spellcasters... a diary or a book that delves furthermore into the history of the Realm, how the balance to keep it stable works and maybe some more tidbits about mermaids, cow plants and maybe how plant Sims came about.

Anyway, those were just some whimsical thoughts I've been having a lot lately in regards to Refreshes.

@simsplayer818 and @Player_jp5s5eav , you both have added a lot of ideas! 😎

 @simsplayer818 , I know the kind of course you are talking about! The kind that have you go between trees using rope bridges, or even scramble along giant rope nets and then roll down others, and then use a zip-line ! 🥳  That would be so much fun for our Sims (and us to watch them!).  The only problem is it would probably require a lot of new animations.😓, so I don't know if this is possible.   But I sure love this idea! 😀

@Player_jp5s5eav , so you have the idea to make visiting Vlad's mansion a reward for seeking him out by doing something in the game?  Interesting idea!😀  The only thing is that I would still want to be able to play as Vlad, or use his house! 🤔 But I like the idea of a reward for those Sims who are curious and persistent enough to seek out his home! 
I didn't mind how small Forgotten Hollow is for a while, but you are right in that is seems empty without at least one community lot in the area.  I love the houses that they built but I wish there was one library, bar, or something,   mostly because it seems odd that any non-Vampire Sim would wonder through that neighborhood on their own -- there should be some reason for them to be there!  They added bars to Glimmerbrook and Moonwood Mill so it makes sense that regular Sims would visit.  And don't even get me started on how they need proper, functioning graveyards in TS4! 😭 Forgotton Hollow would have been perfect! 

I have had various thoughts regarding how Vlad could work if there was a revamp of the Vampires pack. Again, he could be as he has always been - a playable premade Sim. Nevertheless, there is potential of making him something a bit more in the pack beyond "You befriend me enough, I'll then turn you into a vampire if you ask and then send you a few messages about what is happening to you." After that, he just kind of... calls you up whenever he wants to hang out because you took time to build a close enough relation to him. So, what about making him even more of a mentor and source of information? I'd say in a way that is a bit like the Sages in Realm of Magic but also as a way to gain lore. The closer your relationship, the meatier the information becomes.
I'd still expand the world some via one of three ways:

1. A sixth lot to the present map to add a community lot... one that may face opposite of Vlad's Mansion but is still closer to the town square.

2. Turn Vlad's mansion into a community lot that he still lives on. Again, the place is huge and only one Sim is living there. Edit the inside a bit to be sort of a tribute to his heritage. The manor is like a historical landmark that the public has access to, but must treat with respect like a museum. Change some of the rooms that are practically never used into something more. The living room could have more bookshelves and be a library or be changed into a music area. The dining room could become more of a dusty, spider web covered computer room. Upstairs with the bedrooms could be changed to the main library if the downstairs is made into a music area, otherwise one room could become an art room and the other room could be a music room. Higher up could become a gym area with an outdoor hot tub. Then the very top that you can access could more or less remain the same as Vlad's office as he is still owner of the place, but is also the manager. The basement meanwhile would be his private domain that you cannot access unless he invites you in. Of course, it would need an updo to better suit that. Change the two sections with the lesser quality coffins into cleaner, more decadent rooms that would make more sense for him. The question would be whether he would be so much a philanthropist to do such a thing (I don't really see that)... or if he made the manor into that as a way to lure plenty of curious humans who think the library is a place they can be safe in to Forgotten Hollow. Make the unusable graveyard area into an actual usable one.

3. Completely convert the lot with Vlad's mansion into a new build community lot and create a "hidden world" like how you go through a passage to get to the Hermit in Outdoor Retreat. There you can find Vlad, his castle, perhaps a greater sense of danger and maybe you could discover something interesting (like an item) that you cannot find elsewhere.

Either way, it would still be nice to be able to find more interesting lore on the history of Forgotten Hollow and the premade vampires. The library could likely provide random tidbits of the creation of Forgotten Hollow. Vlad, Lilith and Caleb meanwhile could provide greater information on themselves and the vampires we've only seen mentioned and in the Gallery, their pasts, how they got there. Oh, heck... Miss Hell and the others could actually have their own "shell" areas that they lurk around or at least they could appear in the world despite not having actual lots to live on.

<super unpopular opinion>Am I the only person who actually likes some of EA's lots?

Not because they look super-realistic-amazing, or are especially beautiful, but because THEY WORK. Like, sometimes I download something cute off the gallery and have to run around deleting things to put my own objects in, or correcting pathing errors, or whatever. It's super popular to fill EVERY SINGLE AVAILABLE SQUARE INCH with clutter and decorations and I move in a Sim with objects of their own and have to find a way to reno the adorable house to accommodate them and... yeah. I am admittedly not an amazing builder and renoing someone's beautiful creation so I can put items related to MY SIM instead of the imaginary family the builder had in mind... yeah. Not always awesome.

The EA lots are blank canvases and sometimes that's what I want.

Also, some of the Game Changer lots are AMAZING and one is LOVELY but also the subject of a recent bug report. No matter how lovely a house is, if my Sim drops their queue every time they step up or down a platform and there are 7 platforms on the ground floor, I'm not playing there. I feel a little like some of the Townie lots weren't tested as vigorously as the starters but then Neighborhood Stories came along and freed those houses up for me to move in, and... yeah.

(Shoutout to James Turner's starter in Werewolves for being super playable and versatile.)</super unpopular>

That said, well. I was just telling a friend the other night that I really love Riverside Roost, mostly because a couple of my favorite Sims have lived there, and LilSimsie did an entire video on that lot entitled "I tried to renovate the ugliest house in The Sims 4 base game" so maybe my opinion is suspect.  😉 That said, it's legitimately a New Orleans style house! So it's mostly happy memories and partly that there's room for things that actually belong to my Sim.

Other EA faves include Pier Palace, Von Windenburg Estate, Hounds Head, Yuma Heights, and the Chieftan's Villa. I love Ophelia Villa for happy memories playing there, but the master bath that eats people is... something I deal with every time. 😉  Oh, and the Admiral's Shipwreck, I did a R2R there with a klepto teen and it was PERFECTION.

I WILL say that some other EA lots are... questionable. 😉 But they're not all awful!

@Player_jp5s5eav , I would prefer option #1 where the new community lot is facing Vlad's estate! But your other ideas are interesting too. And I do like that Vlad would continue to mentor you.  I also would prefer a library , which you mentioned, because it fits better in that neighborhood than something like a bar or gym would. It honestly was the first community lot that came to mind when I thought about it! I would love to read lore on Vlad's family as well as the Vatores! 

@xochiquetzl_xkvn , I like some of EA's lots! I loved the Goth house (except that one modern turquoise chair that is in their kitchen for some reason! 🤷‍♀️😅 And I know they got a lot of flack for the large houses in Strangerville, but to me it made sense... one house is owned by a group of 3 roommates, so it is going to be a bit mismatched and eclectic. The Rosswell's house is supposed to tell the story of a once wealthy family who are now struggling, having to sell off most of their possessions but still trying to keep the old family house. This is also an opportunity for those who like to decorate but don't like to place the walls, rooms, etc.  As for the Sigworth's house, it is bad, but base housing (housing for the military) is not pretty!  So again, it makes sense!  But I did see LilSimsie's renovation of that house and liked it much better. 😄 I would have put the kitchen in the front as well! 
My main problems with EA houses were the modern one that came with Get Famous with 3 or 4 bathrooms but only one toilette! And also the Glimmerbrook one in ROM that the windows and counters interact so that they all go to the third floor bathroom to wash dishes ! 🤦‍♀️😓  I fixed it once in one of my saves, but then forgot how I fixed it! 😅
And I love the start home in Moonwood Mill that James Turner made!  It is perfect for just one or two Sims!  I also saw his video on how he made it ! 😎

The Shipwreck in Island Living and the Plane crash bunker in Stragnerville are a lot of fun! 

I do not remember all the names of the houses that I like or dislike, so I guess I should pay more attention to that! 😅  i will have to revisit the ones you mentioned.... right now I only remember Ophelia Villa because I was thinking it was a nod to The Sims 2's Ophelia Nigmos! 😀  I do love Ophelia Villa! But then again, I love that style of house! 

I like houses on the Gallery that have a lot of detail in it, but I like clutter because it feels more live-in and not so sterile.  And there are some builders on the Gallery that do play test their builds! (And that one Glimmerbrook house that I mentioned must not have been playtested by EA or they would have found you can't wash dishes in the kitchen!).  So, for me, it just varies on which EA house you are talking about! 😉

"Not because they look super-realistic-amazing, or are especially beautiful, but because THEY WORK."

That is pretty much what I am getting at about updating some of the lots in various Sims 4 packs and the Base game. I love things I see on the gallery, but the chances of me ever downloading any of the lots on it are slim because so many of them use so many cheats and clutter. Nevertheless, I'd like to see some "remakes" of already built lots.

The look should pay strong ode to the original, but at the same time be given a more sensible floor plan and in some cases exterior. Thus basically a give and take as placed on all the Creator's EA collaborates with: EA gives them a description of what they are envisioning along with reference images. The Creator then takes that information and builds a lot that has all the basic requirements and stay within the limitations of not using cheats while building... like "move objects". The Creators then send in their builds to be evaluated. EA makes sure the lot works for low spec computers and meets the expectations of the lot type. Thus, like James Turner's Werewolves starter home, it is definitely a starter, but it has a more sensible floor plan, well sized rooms and stays generic.

Personally, I have a habit of almost always starting out in the Streamlet Single, but I always think the layout could be better. I rather feel the same with the neighboring houses to it. The floor plans are just odd and sometimes feel incomplete. I just have no idea how to make them more ideal nor how to keep it within the low spec requirements.

There is then the fact that the Base game and older packs didn't have as many tools and items at their disposal as the more recent packs do. The stair configurations, the ladders, the bunk beds, the glass roofs, the free items added into build/buy now exist.

I would love to see some of the pre-existing Sim families have their homes slightly redone. Again, keep the same general concept, but make them "better" as well as give some character to the rooms. Ever go to the Landgraab's and wonder just whose bedroom is whose? (Also, shouldn't Nancy at least have a hidden room completely unknown to Geoffrey to keep all her criminal career stuff in?)

The same goes with The Spencer-Kim-Lewis home... Other than Olivia, no one seems to know whose bedroom is whose and often think one of the four "adult" bedrooms is a guestroom. (I totally believe Eric and his mom are on the top floor and share that bathroom, Alice is in the room across from Olivia's and Dennis' room is the ground one.)

When I see the Goth's home, I am often left thinking that Alexander deserves a room inside the house. Sure, that little room on the very top of the build is interesting, but... geez... I feel sorry for the kid. He has to walk up all those flights of stairs just to get to his bed, he's practically cut off from the rest of the house and he is farthest from the bathrooms. Let the kid have a room inside! Turn that small room into a cute hangout/lounge space the kids like to go to or maybe some sort of office Mortimer uses to get away and find perfect silence to write.

My main interest, though, falls on builds like "Planet Honey Pop!" which is pretty much outdoors despite all the walls. To make that karaoke stage they used curved foundations, so if you have Seasons installed you'll find the inside has frost along the walls and your Sims are cold. There are other builds that have similar problems... Like the Bar in Brindleton Bay and the Cafe in Windenburg that have those "open windows" into kitchen areas.

I'm pretty sure there are other community lots I've felt could be edited some to be "Seasons prepared", but I cannot think of them at the moment...

Oh! Back to specific Pack Refreshes... The "Romantic Garden Stuff Pack"! If you have "Seasons" you will learn soon enough that a ton of the plant life in that is fake! "Romantic Garden" my foot! Fake hedges, fake flowers, fake foliage! "My what a magical garden! Those roses look magnificent! I'd like to smell their perfume... Wait a minute... This doesn't feel right... These stems are plastic! The leaves and petals are fabric! There is no scent! This garden is a cheap imitation! The romance is dead! Dead!!!"

So... yeah. I think it would be good if "Romantic Garden Stuff" could get an update to make the items change with the seasons... (Along with some of the other plant items in various packs, admittedly...)

@PugLove888 

Von Windenburg Estate is the house where the Villareal family lives, on the 64x64 lot on the Crumbling Isle. And Pier Palace is the expensive empty home on the Crumbling Isle with a ginormous deck next to an unusable pier.  Hounds Head is the 64x64 lot in Brindleton Bay; I've played in it a lot (and bulldozed it to play my unfinished Legacy Challenge). The Chieftan's Villa is the one in Ohanali Town where Lia Huata and Keala Hoapli live. Yuma Heights is the big expensive Spanish-style house in Oasis Springs, across from the Landgraabs.

Speaking of pack refreshes, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE to be able to swim in Brindleton Bay and Windenburg. PLEASE LET US SWIM in some older worlds where it would be appropriate!

And I do genuinely love Ophelia Villa, but I often add a basement and expand the little tower where Alexander sleeps and give him a door onto that roof. It's not that big a lot and has a lot of house on it. I think the turquoise chair is for Alex, since it's a kid's chair, but I always remove it and replace it with a matching chair!

Also, I feel the base housing remark on a personal level, SO TRUE!

@Player_jp5s5eav 

Heh, yeah, no toilets. The house itself is kind of cool, but man. No toilets! I've gone in and given them toilets and upgraded their walk-in closets with items from DHD before...

So, the Landgraabs. Yeah, I feel you, I was super confused, but after playing them Nancy is the one with fitness skill so I assume the treadmill is hers, so that makes the room on the right hers and Geoffrey's. Also, both Malcolm and Nancy think it's "uninspiringly decorated."  ROTFL!!! (It's not one of my favorites, but my Black Widow renoed it.)

Spencer-Kim-Lewis: I gave the downstairs bedroom to Dennis Kim because he has some gardening skill and it's right next to a garden space. I figured the super pink one was Vivian. Olivia's is obvious. So that leaves the upstairs. Do Eric and Alice have separate bedrooms? Am I supposed to read something into that?

As for the Sims not knowing which room is theirs, though, alas, that's par for the course.  Half the time when I start playing in Opheila Villa Morty is sleeping in Alex's bed, and he and Bella often woohoo in Cassie's bed (boundaries! Not okay, Mom and Dad!).