Re: My thought on the Goth refresh.

Is there a reason why Mortimer wears the same suit for everyday, party, hot(!) and cold weather?

@valohim666 I like your idea! 🥳

@kusurusu , most likely he has enough money to just buy duplicates of his favorite suit. 🤣  But yes, I would certainly have given him a more breathable Hot Weather outfit!  Poor guy must be sweltering!🥵   I might have to change that!  In one of my saves I gave him a hat for his Cold Weather outfit. 

I also changed Cassandra's swim bottoms to match the swim top because I think it looked stupid with the baggy shorts.  I do wish Bella was wearing the iconic shaped dress of hers, and not just a red dress.  Her Party dress looks closer to the original.  But the rest of the clothing I like! 😎

I have mixed feelings.  I love the new Cassandra, and I think Bella is beautiful, and of course I love that they have non-whitewashed skintones, but I think I prefer the old Alexander. Part of that is because I miss his adorable sweater vest and preppy vibe, and part of it is because, well.

Old Alexander looks a bit odd when he ages up--I'm thinking of the ears and the nose in particular--but my Sims have married old Alexander in a couple of saves so it's not the end of the world. New Alexander looks very, very odd when he ages up. It'll take a while for me to get used to that.

For reference, here's one of my recent teen age-ups of old Alexander:

<3 so adorable! (Okay, I did plastic surgery on his ears and made him less frowny...)

Obviously, this isn't a problem limited to Alexander. Here's a YouTube video by someone else on the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfXn_0O7DUo

And for reference, here's my YA age up of Cassandra in the same save... you can tell you've inspired me.Ready for University!

@xochiquetzl_xkvn , i agree about Alexander and how cute his sweater vest was!  It really seemed to fit his personality, from both TS4 and TS2!  And I absolutely love your grown up Alexander ! 😃 But even without the cosmetic "surgery" you did on him, old Alexander still looks better grown up than new Alexander does! 🤨

Yes, even when I make children genetically from the parents in CAS, I always age them up before I accept them because sometimes certain combinations in the game don't make for normal looking humans!  Sometimes mom's eyes and chin don't look good with dad's jaw and nose! 😅 Occasionally I forget though! 🤭😂

I love that shirt with that skirt you put on Cassandra!  I will have to give her an outfit like that! 😍

@PugLove888 I always thought the original Alexander looked pretty goofy with his huge ears, though I do have a soft spot for him seeing as how my middle name is Alexander and I too look goofy so I can't complain lol. The original Cassandra is one of my favorite vanilla sims, so yeah definitely not liking the new version of her. I certainly don't think she looks bad by any means, but I'm just really biased towards the old version because I always thought she was really cute.

I actually just had my first real look in game at the update, and overall I don't like it all that much. As I said I don't mind the new Cassandra, but I much prefer the old looks for the entire family. Luckily I managed to make a copy of the old family to my Gallery before updating, which thankfully I had turned off the automatic Sims Delivery option or I wouldn't have been able to make that copy. I also made a copy of the new version, and renamed everyone just so I could have that version in my current save along with the original. So yeah while I may not really like them as the Goth family, they do make for a nice addition into my current save as a different family.

@PugLove888 

I have a soft spot for Alexander because one of my early Sims married him and moved in with the Goths. Morty was gone, alas, but we had Bella as an old lady living with us, and an adutl Cassandra. They're my favorite pre-made family and I've played them a lot. <3 I have grown children who got Alexander's nose, lol, but fortunately it suits them.

I love my aged up Alexander, too!  <3 I tried to keep the sweater vest preppie vibe. What a cutie! I didn't really do much, mostly tweaked the ears.

And yes, new Alexander aged up, yikes.  Poor baby! If I adopt him I'm aging him up to YA, fixing him, and aging him back down.

Cassandra, I like the whole schoolgirl vibe she has as a teen and I wanted to keep the general tone but make it more grown-up and less... private school uniform.  :D 

@xochiquetzl_xkvn , yes, I've always loved Alexander ever since the Sims 2!  And the Goths are my favorite Maxis-made family for all versions of the game!  They are just so iconic to the franchise! When thinking of the Sims families, I think of the Goths first, then the Landgraabs, and then either the Newbies or the Calientes!  I wish Bella's brother, Michael Bachelor, had been added to TS4!  😢

Before TS2 came out, and I was playing TS1, my niece got all excited that I played the Sims.  She said she heard from school that there is a family that everybody hates because they are miserable and hard to play.  I figured out she meant the Goths, and I told her it wasn't the family -- it was the way their house was designed!  They only had that one bathroom and everybody always walked in on family members or guests that were using it! 🤭 🤦‍♀️😅 There would often end up being a traffic jam in the bathroom! 🤪

@valohim666 I like the update but I also liked the original version.  My problem is mostly that I think of each version of the Sims in terms of their pre-made families, and now there are 2 sets of Goths, so it messes with my brain!  😰🤪

I really liked al the old Goths.  I think they just should have darkened their skin tone to match previous versions of the game, added set Hot and Cold Weather clothing, added some likes and dislikes, and call it a day!  That would have been the best.  However, I think they did a good job, for the most part, on making new Goths.  Alexander being the biggest disappointment, but only when he ages up.  

There are a few things I wish they did different, like keeping that preppy/nerdy look for Alexander that the original TS4 Alex had (as mentioned by @xochiquetzl_xkvn ), keeping the shape of Bella's dress the same (the shape of the dress is just as iconic as the color!) and a few other things (like giving Mortimer more comfortable Hot Weather clothes, giving him a hat for Cold Weather, Giving Cassandra different swim bottoms or a one piece, and I actually preferred her shirt from the original version as well.  I like the new shirt, but it doesn't really say "Cassandra Goth" to me other than its color. )

As for faces, I like both versions of Cassandra's face.  But I'm biased as the new version looks like my Sisiter-in-Law looked when she was a teen! 😄  I will say that the new Bella does seem to look a little more brooding like the TS1 Bella, even though her mouth is too wide when she smiles and her hair is too wavy for Bella. I love Mortimer's new outfit, but I will miss his old one as I could always tell it was him with that jacket on! 😅

So while I do like the new versions, I still miss the old versions.  You can certainly say i have mixed feelings! 😂

But poor Alexander! 😭 Maybe they will give us a Plastic surgery pack (like they had in one of the packs from TS3) so he won't have to fear ageing up! 😅😉

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@PugLove888 wrote:

keeping the shape of Bella's dress the same (the shape of the dress is just as iconic as the color!)

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With that it's not the shape of the dress, it's the fact that they significantly changed her body shape. For me Bella overall had the most unique look of any character in the game, but now I find she looks too much like some randomly generated sim. Plus before I could see that character and instantly go "that's Bella Goth" where as with the new look I'm not sure I could ever get to that point (or if I do it will take a while), and that original Bella is always going to be THE Bella for me in this game. 

So for those of you that may not like the new look, and you're like me and simply can't see them as the Goths, do like I did and rename them to something else then put them into your save as a completely different family while keeping the original Goths. I personally think they work great as an entirely new family, so in my current game they're the Rich family (which was just a random name). Since I have a copy of the original Goths, the new Goths, and the renamed version of the new Goths in my Gallery, next time I start a new save I'll swap the new one out with the original while adding the Rich family back in as well.

@valohim666 , that is a good idea! 😎

@PugLove888 Admittedly I'm a very negative person, but I figured hey if I don't like them as the Goths then I'll rename them and use them as a different family. I know others will probably say things like "that's not the Goth family" or "I'd rather have the original", which were my exact thoughts at first lol, but instead of being negative about it I figured I'd put them into my current game and just have them be a new family in town.

I don't know if it will work going from Xbox to other platforms, admittedly I'm not very familiar with how the Gallery works, but if anyone wants the original base game version of the Goths I shared mine that I have in my Gallery. I've done absolutely nothing to them at all other than adding "(original)" to the name so that I know it's the old vanilla version. Just search for "Goth (original)" and you'll hopefully find it. I'm sure others have uploaded original versions as well, so even if you don't find or use mine you should be able to find an original version.

@valohim666 , while I figured I could find them somewhere on the Gallery, I went ahead and looked for your upload of them and downloaded them!  Thanks! 😃

I do have some old Save game files that have the originals in them, but they will eventually age and die unless I play them.  I do have my original save file of my playing only them, but I let them age because I didn't know one day that version would be gone!  So it is always good to have back up! 😅

@PugLove888 I figured there would be others on there as well, but a lot of times it seems there's no way of knowing what has been done to things on the Gallery (unless the uploader specifically says) so I didn't want to spend a lot of time browsing for one that was actually vanilla originals. I probably should edit my upload somewhere to say that it is indeed an untouched version, because I'm sure some people that will be looking will want a version that hasn't been edited.

I'm just glad that I'm the type of person that disables auto updates whenever I can, because if I didn't I wouldn't have had the backup of the original version. I had actually started a new game just to see the new version, only to find that because I hadn't done the Sims Delivery update I still had the old version lol. So I took full advantage of that and made a copy of the older version, especially since it was on a brand new save since it meant no aging or anything had been done to them yet. I definitely wasn't going to backup the version in my current save since not only has Mortimer died of old age, but the neighborhood stories also decided really early into the save that the Goths needed a bunch of kids so they had three more and adopted one as well.

@valohim666 , yes you might want to put that info in that this is an untouched old Goth family! I'm just glad you saved it so you (and I) didn't have to go searching! 

I'm cracking up that you meant to try out the new versions but hadn't enabled the Delivery yet! Sounds like something I would do! 😂🤪🥰

@PugLove888 Not sure if it will stay at the top or not, though I guess it will as long as no one leaves comments lol, but I did add a comment saying that it's an unedited base game version straight out of a new save.

It was hilarious when it happened. As soon as I went to look at the Goths and I saw the old version, it was just one of those facepalm type of moments and I quickly realized I needed to update. 

Oh and by the way I just had the new version of Mortimer walk past my sims' house, and while I didn't see it before the first thing that came to mind was the resemblance to Vincent Price. Makes me wish I renamed the family to Price, with Mortimer being renamed Vincent.

@valohim666 , Now I can't wait to see the new Mortimer "in the wild"! 🤣  My parents used to watch the show "Mystery" and he was a host of it for some time!  Love him! 😀

I have to say, I do love Mortimer's new outfit! 😍 But the old one was so recognizable! 😄

@PugLove888 Mortimer is the one new Goth I like the most, admittedly it's mostly because he reminds me so much of Vincent Price lol. My dad used to show me a lot of old movies and TV shows, so I've seen him in quite a few things. Plus I'll always remember him for his part in Michael Jackson's song Thriller, and as Egghead in the old 60's Batman show.

Yeah completely agree with you. I think the new Mortimer is the one that I almost want to like more than the original, but yeah like you said the old is so recognizable though I think for me having played since 2016 I think it's only natural that the originals are going to stand out more.

@valohim666 Yes, I've seen some very old movies of Vincent (back when he had dark hair and looked even more like Mortimer) and I didn't recognize him at first until he spoke, and then it was unmistakable that it was him!  That movie was Song of Bernadette. 😇
I had the Thriller album when I was young and was so excited, he had a spoken part on the title song!  It's been about 40 years but I still can recite all of Vincent's lines, copying his rhythm and intonation! 😂
I had forgotten that he was in the Batman TV series!  But that is probably where I first was introduced to him because my older brothers always watched that show! 
He also had a part in The Brady Bunch as Professor Whitehead who wanted the tiki they found! 🤣
And then he was briefly in one of my favorite movies, Edward Scissorhands! 🥰

I understand!  I started TS4 when it came out, which isn't that much longer than when you started, so I have grown accustomed to original Goths as well.  Even though I like a lot of what they did with the new version, it is very hard for me to see these "interlopers" as the TS4 Goths 😉😂  I do appreciate that their skin tone looks more like TS1 and TS2 Goths.  It is just odd to have such a revamp of actual facial features in the same game! I would much rather they fix the skin tones, give them Hot and Cold outfits, and give them some likes/dislikes. I mean, they all seem to love black, red, white, and gray! 🤣

@PugLove888 I ended up listening to Thriller (the song, not the album) right after my initial post mentioning Vincent because that was one of the first things that came to mind. It was quite depressing on so many levels, though luckily just the awesomeness of the song helped counteract some of the bad feelings.

I had forgotten about him being in the Batman series too until I went back to look up things I was familiar with that he was in. Never knew he was in The Brady Bunch, though to be fair that's not something I ever watched.

I can appreciate the attempt to try and update the Goths, but yeah to go so long with the same looks and then suddenly change them seems odd to me especially since the looks are about all that they changed. I'm sure there are some out there that maybe didn't like the older look and will see the new versions as the Goths, but I'm sure there are even more people that are just so used to them looking a certain way that there's no way they can see that as the Goths. I too like some of what they changed, which is why I renamed them and put them in as an entirely new family, but to replace the originals seems wrong and they really need to give an option for which version people want to use when starting a new game.

By the way, is it just me or is there some resemblance to the Sims 3 version of Bella in the updated version? I feel like around the eyes it looks a little like Sims 3 Bella, then again it could just be me lol.

@valohim666 , some are going to prefer Goths 2.0 and others are going to prefer Goths 1.0. 😉 To me, I always think of the Sims 1 Goths with Sims 2 Alexander, since he hadn't been born yet in TS1!  Even if Ilike other versions of the Goths, the first iteration will always be cannon to me !   However, it is much easier to accept a new version of the Goths in a new version of the game.  Since we are still playing TS4, the newer Goths will be harder to get used to! 

I'm sorry the song touched on depression for you! 😭 It is an excellent song, and was quite the big deal when it was made. (It erroneously has been called the first horror video -- I don't know which one was actually the first, but I know of one that was made earlier!) 

The Brady Bunch storyline that Vincent was in was only a 3 parter (and I can't remember if he was in the first part or not).  

I'm not sure about TS3 Bella.  I'm not a fan of TS3 (though I loved the CASt color and pattern tool and a few other things). Even when I took my CC/mods out it was still so laggy and often crashed.  Didn't like the open world because there was never anyone in it by the time my Sim traveled to that location. Anyway, every time I think of TS3 Bella and Mortimer, I just think of them as kids. i know I aged them up at some point, but they never seemed like the real Bella and Mortimer to me once I did that. 😥 So you very well might be right on the eyes, but I can't remember other that her eyes as a little girl. 🤷‍♀️

@PugLove888 I mostly meant specifically the Sims 4 versions of the Goths, though yeah I do agree that when it comes to The Sims as a franchise people will have their preferences. Like for me personally I actually prefer the original Sims 4 version because it's become what I'm used to, especially since I haven't played any of the other Sims games in a long time.

It just hit a lot of marks that really bother me. For example just knowing that both MJ and Vincent Price are dead hit me the wrong way, then the fact that my dad had introduced me to both and he died of cancer last year really hit hard. Factor in that I've struggled with depression for most of my life and that certainly didn't help. For the video of the song, I almost don't even want to call it a music video since it's almost like a mini movie. While so many music videos are just a bunch of random nonsense, that one really told a story and was just awesome. I haven't seen the video in ages, yet to this day I can easily picture Michael turning to the camera with those weird beast like eyes at the end.

Maybe I'll have to track down any episodes of that he was in, just to see him of course lol.

I actually liked the concept of Sims 3, I liked the idea of the open world, but I thought the execution was really poor. I found that it needed mods just to run well enough, and even with certain mods it still had issues. The game was meant to have story progression, but the vanilla version didn't even seem to work so you needed mods to make it actually feel alive. The Create A Style is one thing I really wish made a return to Sims 4, because with that you could match almost anything. To be fair I'm probably not remembering Bella properly anyway, I mean as I said it's been a while since I played.

I still stand by this redesign being a big W, at least for Bella Goth. However, looking at her in CAS instantly made me think of a few slight tweaks that would make more sense and be more faithful to her original looks.

All I did here was change her face with minor tweaks so she could look more like her SIms 2 design. I also gave her a green necklace instead and made it a diamond shape since she's the face of the series to many.

While the skin tone she has now is pretty good. It didn't seem warm enough compared to the original Bella Goths so I picked a slightly more accurate tone. You could go even further than the one I chose but this felt like the most natural and fitting one with the makeup she had on. It also feels like a nicer compromise between all the variations her tone has had.

I removed her mouth lines from this Young Adult version since it didn't really fit the age she had listed. Speaking of which, something you will notice that the redesign failed to do is make her age the same as Mortimer. They were both the same age in Sims 3, yet she's now a young adult like any other Sim just starting out. So For the final change, I wanted to actually age her up.

While I think the redesign we saw for Bella is good, if they ever go back and update things to touch up the odder-looking rest of the Goth family, I'd really like the small tweaks I did or similar ones to actually be done to Bella. I believe it captures all of the best of all versions while being pretty accurate to the original designs. Also, that green diamond necklace solidifies her place as the main face of the series so I'd love that above all else, lol.

@valohim666 , sorry, I didn't state that as clearly as I could have!🤦‍♀️ I understood you were talking about the first version of the TS4 Goths verses the 2nd  version of the TS4 Goths,  and I should have said "some are going to prefer TS4 Goths 2.0 and others are going to prefer TS4 Goths 1.0. "  And then I confused the matter by talking about TS1 and TS2 Goths, which I only did because the TS4 Goths 2.0 version was to try to fix their skin coloring to look more like the Goths in the previous games. 😅

I'm very sorry for the loss of your father! 😭 I can see how both MJ and Vincent would make you feel sad, even if you still enjoy their work.  My husband lost his mom last year and it has been hard for us. Similar things like songs and food that she liked will make us bittersweet. 
You are right in that Thriller is a mini-movie! It isn't a regular video! (I'm sure Bella and Mortimer would have loved it!). I remembered when it premiered. Yes, those eyes were freaky! 😱  If you have ever seen the movie "13 Going on 30" there is a whole little tribute to Thriller in that movie! 😄
The Brady Bunch episodes that Vincent was in were the ones where they went to Hawaii!  You could recreate it in your game by taking Mortimer in CAS, changing his name to Professor Whitehead (don't remember his first name), ageing him to elder, and then put him in Sulani! 🥳🤣

The concept of TS3 was amazing.😮  Definitely ahead of its time!  But the execution was not so good, as you said. By the time that I needed Mods to make the game run better, I was getting rid of all my Mods (but they were ones that slowed my game down, so I should have just traded which Mods I used.  But I didn't know that certain Mods would make my game run that much better.  I was thinking that more Mods would make it even worse!  I know that is not the case now, but I had such a bad time of it that I don't want to play TS3 now. ). And yes CASt was the best thing about TS3!🥰 I was so disappointed in the open world that was empty of Sims when I got to a destination, that I spent most of my time in CAS and B&B Modes messing with the CASt tool! 🥳 But I didn't do myself any favors since I collected soooo many swatches of patterns in multiple color combos for each that it took forever to open CAS or B&B! 😓 Had I known that would happen, I would have been more discriminating with the swatches I saved! So I understand why it wasn't included in TS4.  Part of me was very disappointed, but part of me was very relieved! 😅  As for Story Progression, I love the idea, but I'm too much of a control freak with my Sims! 😂

@TeoTeoTe0 , Yes, I do feel that Bella in other versions of the game had a warmer skin tone than the new Bella, so I liked that you tweaked it! 😃 And I liked that they gave her a darker tone with the new Bella, even if it wasn't as warm as we thought it should be! 

I like the Plumbob necklace! Makes sense.😀  Doesn't really go as well with her new dress, but then again, they should have not changed her Everyday dress to being with!  😥

Technically, the Sims 1 Bella is the original!  I do think this updated one they did matches the TS1 Bella in the eyes and more serious demeanor. 👍 (I've always thought TS2 Bella's eyes were too happy and innocent looking! Then again, they might have done that to fit with the lore that she was abducted by Aliens from Pleasantview and put into Strangetown with no real memory of her former life. ) 

In TS3 Mortimer and Bella might have been the same age, but in TS2 they were not! Bella was an Adult and Mortimer was an Elder.  In TS1 they were essentially the same age, since there were only babies, children and Adults, with Elders being denoted with gray hair.  It didn't really matter since nobody aged or died of old age in that game! 😂
However, since Cassandra is a teen and Bella is at the beginning of being a Young Adult, it makes no sense for her to be a YA unless she uses an elixir to keep young!  So I like that you aged her into a regular Adult! 🥰

Cass and Liberty Lee....  one is a teen the other is a young adult.

The second picture is mine that I  have down loaded to the gallery.. 

Mortie is less wrinklie. does not wear the same outfit over and over

Bella got a slight hair change but got her red dress back

Cass looks like a teen, kind of as much of one can do in the sims 4

And Alexander got his vest back and looks better when aged up.. 

My gallery is the same as my name here Ravenlure  . I have a CC version but would like to redo that one.

Sorry the first pic is my version of the Goths second pic is of cass and liberty lee