Carl's Guide: A History of the Sims 4

"Sharonia;c-17838130" wrote:

"Lazzial;c-17838117" wrote:
Considering Sims 5 is now in development and "well underway" apparently, we may just see the occasional pack now and then which, I'm actually fine with. I really don't think the game engine can handle any more expansions anyway. My game gets pretty laggy at times and I have a decent gaming computer. Thankfully they're using Unreal Engine for Sims 5. They should be able to do a lot more with it.

I’ve dismissed other players hopes for games like Paralives because I still had faith that the Sims franchise could improve in the future but what I’ve read of it’s future so far has made me rethink my dismissal of Paralives might have been a mistake.

And maybe your dismissal of TS5 will turn out to be wrong too. We'll have to see :) i dont necessarily trust EA to do it well either but I hope they pull a hail mary somehow and it all works out because 7 years is just too long to wait for a good Sims game ?

"AprilDawn;c-17838334" wrote:
@PreCiious I too do not like the direction the Sims 4 game took to be therapy for people - a video game should be entertainment - not therapy. It makes the game so dull - all the humor and unexpected that was in the previous sims games is gone and it is why so much gets nerfed. About the only thing that makes me laugh playing anymore is when a sim slips in a mud puddle!

I also have always disliked how they have no personality - traits rarely matter much at all and there are so few traits - definitely a doll house and not a life simulator. There should have been many more traits and aspirations added with all these packs that have come out, yet we rarely get them and have to keep using the same ones over and over again. Instead - we get sentiments and lifestyles - buggy, as with most things sims 4 has released, and usually make no sense at all - I turned off lifestyles as they just make the sims even more one dimensional. And the main selling feature - emotions - oy - always been a mess - basically every sim is really messed up as no one flips though so many emotions in so little time or has so many different emotions stacked at one time. In Sims 2 - I did not need a color coded texted buff to know what a sim was feeling - it was obvious by facial expressions and actions. The AI for autonomous behavior is a joke too - why do sims even drink water when they do not have a thirst need? Sigh. Think I have yet to ever have all the sims in a household actually sit and stay seated at a table to eat a meal - never an issue in sims 2.

I also get annoyed that so many things never get fixed - so much I avoid in the game due to bugs. Seems they have little to no QA as the packs and updates just roll out full of bugs. And I rarely like when they change something that I already paid for with an update - like gardening and vampires and other things that they consider "improvements". They also just stop doing things they once did and were a basic part of the game, like whims, and often "forget" to integrate features like adding to the club system or holidays system. They used to do challenges too and we never see those anymore.

This game has always disappointed to one degree or another because one naturally thinks that better technology and a later version of a game will be much better, not much worse. It may look good, but the AI and gameplay is inferior to previous versions of Sims game.

Exactly... this game cant just be pretty, espacially if you offer us LiveMode Gameplay,. It cant just be a virtual reality to calm the patients down. I dont need that serious stuff in this game. Give me quirkiness, danger and consequences for my actions. (I swear a fire barely happens in my Game, even though i put a rug and a plant infront of the fireplace what else do i have to do...)

I think its so sad that i have to rely on modders (Community again) to fix the game or to adjust the gameplay. I think if it wasnt for the one mod by Simvasion, I would have not played the Doctors Career (Nurses basically talking instead of working). This Game is all over the place. The increase in quantity started with the sims3 though. Before you know it, they recommened you to disable some of these pack bc the BaseGame is unstable, while also nerfing down or just remove features for balance reasons...

We now that they can do good, yet some of these packs/features are a miss or a hit. What a mediocre game.

"CAPTAIN_NXR7;c-17838330" wrote:

The community had no easy access to these kind of tutorials back in the Sims Online days or even just before TS4 was released. Plus the software wasn’t as user friendly as it is nowadays.
I don’t know for a fact, but I feel confident enough to say that TS4 has generated a lot more content creators compared to the previous titles because of this easy access to resources. In fact, EA/Maxis will most likely use it to their own advantage and so they should if they had any sense from a business POV.

You are completely wrong about this. Guess who used to have tutorials for TS2...Carl. He's been around creating tutorials since forever. And CC creation was just as easy back then, too. I know...I ran a website for TS2 and created both mods, objects, recolors, and builds. We used the same tools back then that we use now. The only change is that people who kept on modding for the newer games skill level improved. TS2 still has an active community and mods are still being made for it. Same for TS3. TS4 is not unique in any way as far as modding goes. What is unique is seeing a modder getting paid $8500/month for creating mods that he doesn't update and have been broken since 2019. Heck, when I saw that I seriously considered getting back into modding because I would at least keep my stuff up to date and make it worth paying me for. But no...I'll mod for the indie game instead. That one is actually going to have tools built into the game for modding.

You're right...TS5 will probably have built in tools, too, because they saw the indie game doing it.

"Mstybl95;c-17838409" wrote:

"CAPTAIN_NXR7;c-17838330" wrote:

The community had no easy access to these kind of tutorials back in the Sims Online days or even just before TS4 was released. Plus the software wasn’t as user friendly as it is nowadays.
I don’t know for a fact, but I feel confident enough to say that TS4 has generated a lot more content creators compared to the previous titles because of this easy access to resources. In fact, EA/Maxis will most likely use it to their own advantage and so they should if they had any sense from a business POV.

You are completely wrong about this. Guess who used to have tutorials for TS2...Carl. He's been around creating tutorials since forever. And CC creation was just as easy back then, too. I know...I ran a website for TS2 and created both mods, objects, recolors, and builds. We used the same tools back then that we use now. The only change is that people who kept on modding for the newer games skill level improved. TS2 still has an active community and mods are still being made for it. Same for TS3. TS4 is not unique in any way as far as modding goes. What is unique is seeing a modder getting paid $8500/month for creating mods that he doesn't update and have been broken since 2019. Heck, when I saw that I seriously considered getting back into modding because I would at least keep my stuff up to date and make it worth paying me for. But no...I'll mod for the indie game instead. That one is actually going to have tools built into the game for modding.

You're right...TS5 will probably have built in tools, too, because they saw the indie game doing it.

Some are making 15k+ a month. I don't expect they'd be too eager to shut down their Patreon accounts to make mods directly for EA :D

"Mstybl95;c-17838409" wrote:

"CAPTAIN_NXR7;c-17838330" wrote:

The community had no easy access to these kind of tutorials back in the Sims Online days or even just before TS4 was released. Plus the software wasn’t as user friendly as it is nowadays.
I don’t know for a fact, but I feel confident enough to say that TS4 has generated a lot more content creators compared to the previous titles because of this easy access to resources. In fact, EA/Maxis will most likely use it to their own advantage and so they should if they had any sense from a business POV.

You are completely wrong about this. Guess who used to have tutorials for TS2...Carl. He's been around creating tutorials since forever. And CC creation was just as easy back then, too. I know...I ran a website for TS2 and created both mods, objects, recolors, and builds. We used the same tools back then that we use now. The only change is that people who kept on modding for the newer games skill level improved. TS2 still has an active community and mods are still being made for it. Same for TS3. TS4 is not unique in any way as far as modding goes. What is unique is seeing a modder getting paid $8500/month for creating mods that he doesn't update and have been broken since 2019. Heck, when I saw that I seriously considered getting back into modding because I would at least keep my stuff up to date and make it worth paying me for. But no...I'll mod for the indie game instead. That one is actually going to have tools built into the game for modding.

You're right...TS5 will probably have built in tools, too, because they saw the indie game doing it.

I get what you’re saying, although I still believe that due to the current player base being much larger, the modding community is bigger too and therefore more folks are creating cc. On top of that, the modding community has been getting a lot of attention, not just by simmers but by the company itself. This could possibly encourage simmers to create more custom content. Look at Spark’d. It’s the perfect example in which folks are encouraged by Maxis to create something. Next step is CC.

The game aesthetics have also changed since TS2, and no one can deny that TS4 looks that bit smoother. The next gen will (hopefully) even look more pleasing. “Pleasing” being of course subjective. Still, one needs the proper tools and skills to create assets that look at least similar in style to the official in game assets and the tools are there for people to do this. Sure they were always there, including 1 or 2 tutorials, but nowadays more folks may find it much easier to access them and learn how to use them, thanks to popular game changers pointing them in the right direction and what not. There’s gonna be bigger choice in CC content.

I’m not saying this will be the way, I’m just sharing my thoughts on what the next title may have in store for us.

"Lazzial;c-17838433" wrote:
Some are making 15k+ a month. I don't expect they'd be too eager to shut down their Patreon accounts to make mods directly for EA :D

No, I don’t expect most of them to shut down their patreon accounts either ( how am I supposed to get some of my favorite mods? Certainly not through EA ?).
I just believe that it’s possible that somewhere in the near future a system is put in place that gets us to somehow access (and pay for ) CC without needing to try and find it via other channels. Folks are willing to pay for ease of access. I don’t even know how EA will regulate this kind of business, but I definitely wouldn’t put it past them.

Again, I don’t know. Just thinking out really loud. ??‍♂️

"PreCiious;c-17838357" wrote:

"AprilDawn;c-17838334" wrote:
@PreCiious I too do not like the direction the Sims 4 game took to be therapy for people - a video game should be entertainment - not therapy. It makes the game so dull - all the humor and unexpected that was in the previous sims games is gone and it is why so much gets nerfed. About the only thing that makes me laugh playing anymore is when a sim slips in a mud puddle!

I also have always disliked how they have no personality - traits rarely matter much at all and there are so few traits - definitely a doll house and not a life simulator. There should have been many more traits and aspirations added with all these packs that have come out, yet we rarely get them and have to keep using the same ones over and over again. Instead - we get sentiments and lifestyles - buggy, as with most things sims 4 has released, and usually make no sense at all - I turned off lifestyles as they just make the sims even more one dimensional. And the main selling feature - emotions - oy - always been a mess - basically every sim is really messed up as no one flips though so many emotions in so little time or has so many different emotions stacked at one time. In Sims 2 - I did not need a color coded texted buff to know what a sim was feeling - it was obvious by facial expressions and actions. The AI for autonomous behavior is a joke too - why do sims even drink water when they do not have a thirst need? Sigh. Think I have yet to ever have all the sims in a household actually sit and stay seated at a table to eat a meal - never an issue in sims 2.

I also get annoyed that so many things never get fixed - so much I avoid in the game due to bugs. Seems they have little to no QA as the packs and updates just roll out full of bugs. And I rarely like when they change something that I already paid for with an update - like gardening and vampires and other things that they consider "improvements". They also just stop doing things they once did and were a basic part of the game, like whims, and often "forget" to integrate features like adding to the club system or holidays system. They used to do challenges too and we never see those anymore.

This game has always disappointed to one degree or another because one naturally thinks that better technology and a later version of a game will be much better, not much worse. It may look good, but the AI and gameplay is inferior to previous versions of Sims game.

Exactly... this game cant just be pretty, espacially if you offer us LiveMode Gameplay,. It cant just be a virtual reality to calm the patients down. I dont need that serious stuff in this game. Give me quirkiness, danger and consequences for my actions. (I swear a fire barely happens in my Game, even though i put a rug and a plant infront of the fireplace what else do i have to do...)

I think its so sad that i have to rely on modders (Community again) to fix the game or to adjust the gameplay. I think if it wasnt for the one mod by Simvasion, I would have not played the Doctors Career (Nurses basically talking instead of working). This Game is all over the place. The increase in quantity started with the sims3 though. Before you know it, they recommened you to disable some of these pack bc the BaseGame is unstable, while also nerfing down or just remove features for balance reasons...

We now that they can do good, yet some of these packs/features are a miss or a hit. What a mediocre game.

Exactly. When I mentioned fantasy stuff getting nerfed, it is the reality stuff getting nerfed too. Bust Dust kit is a good example of that. I agree quality going downhill with the Sims 3. Sims 3 store was a nightmare. Why they bring it back with the kits I don't understand.

"simmietime;c-17838139" wrote:
I really dont get why TS2 is so high on peoples pedestals, its so old and it shows.

@simmietime You can read any thread in the feedback section or watch any video about the Sims 2 or even read this thread if you want to know why people love the Sims 2 so much.
I also don't think the Sims 2 is showing its age that much. It did personalities and just sims themselves so much better in my opinion. It really is surpising how they did that in 2004. Even the fact that the Sims 2 has sooooo many animations, I think for a 2004 game that says something. They didn't nearly recycle as many animations as they do now.
Also graphically I think the game still looks kind of "fine", definitely better than most games from that time of course assuming you know how to make the game run in High Definition and smooth edges. If you run the game on default settings of course it will look old.

"CAPTAIN_NXR7;c-17838330" wrote:


The community had no easy access to these kind of tutorials back in the Sims Online days or even just before TS4 was released. Plus the software wasn’t as user friendly as it is nowadays.
I don’t know for a fact, but I feel confident enough to say that TS4 has generated a lot more content creators compared to the previous titles because of this easy access to resources. In fact, EA/Maxis will most likely use it to their own advantage and so they should if they had any sense from a business POV.

@CAPTAIN_NXR7 The Sims 2 modding community was absolutely HUGE. Pretty much everyone and their dogs had a website with self-made CC and Mods. Back in the Sims 1 days there was even this piece of software you could use to put any face in the game. I don't remember its name but there were tons of ways to "create" your game back then. It was super easy to use too.
The content creators are maybe more because of how the internet changed. Back in 2004 to 2009 the internet wasn't used for recreational reasons as much as today and by so young people too. You can see that in statistics of any website that was meant for entertainment. They all have way higher numbers of visitors nowadays. I didn't even have internet at home till 2006 at the time.

Also the popularity of Youtubers and Content Creators turned "influencers" is what kind of gives the impression of the community growing. It's just back in the day, creators and players used to hang out in underground forums more.

"CAPTAIN_NXR7;c-17838565" wrote:

"Mstybl95;c-17838409" wrote:

"CAPTAIN_NXR7;c-17838330" wrote:

The community had no easy access to these kind of tutorials back in the Sims Online days or even just before TS4 was released. Plus the software wasn’t as user friendly as it is nowadays.
I don’t know for a fact, but I feel confident enough to say that TS4 has generated a lot more content creators compared to the previous titles because of this easy access to resources. In fact, EA/Maxis will most likely use it to their own advantage and so they should if they had any sense from a business POV.

You are completely wrong about this. Guess who used to have tutorials for TS2...Carl. He's been around creating tutorials since forever. And CC creation was just as easy back then, too. I know...I ran a website for TS2 and created both mods, objects, recolors, and builds. We used the same tools back then that we use now. The only change is that people who kept on modding for the newer games skill level improved. TS2 still has an active community and mods are still being made for it. Same for TS3. TS4 is not unique in any way as far as modding goes. What is unique is seeing a modder getting paid $8500/month for creating mods that he doesn't update and have been broken since 2019. Heck, when I saw that I seriously considered getting back into modding because I would at least keep my stuff up to date and make it worth paying me for. But no...I'll mod for the indie game instead. That one is actually going to have tools built into the game for modding.

You're right...TS5 will probably have built in tools, too, because they saw the indie game doing it.

I get what you’re saying, although I still believe that due to the current player base being much larger, the modding community is bigger too and therefore more folks are creating cc. On top of that, the modding community has been getting a lot of attention, not just by simmers but by the company itself. This could possibly encourage simmers to create more custom content. Look at Spark’d. It’s the perfect example in which folks are encouraged by Maxis to create something. Next step is CC.

The game aesthetics have also changed since TS2, and no one can deny that TS4 looks that bit smoother. The next gen will (hopefully) even look more pleasing. “Pleasing” being of course subjective. Still, one needs the proper tools and skills to create assets that look at least similar in style to the official in game assets and the tools are there for people to do this. Sure they were always there, including 1 or 2 tutorials, but nowadays more folks may find it much easier to access them and learn how to use them, thanks to popular game changers pointing them in the right direction and what not. There’s gonna be bigger choice in CC content.

I’m not saying this will be the way, I’m just sharing my thoughts on what the next title may have in store for us.

"Lazzial;c-17838433" wrote:
Some are making 15k+ a month. I don't expect they'd be too eager to shut down their Patreon accounts to make mods directly for EA :D

No, I don’t expect most of them to shut down their patreon accounts either ( how am I supposed to get some of my favorite mods? Certainly not through EA ?).
I just believe that it’s possible that somewhere in the near future a system is put in place that gets us to somehow access (and pay for ) CC without needing to try and find it via other channels. Folks are willing to pay for ease of access. I don’t even know how EA will regulate this kind of business, but I definitely wouldn’t put it past them.

Again, I don’t know. Just thinking out really loud. ??‍♂️

The modding community has always been huge. Always. And it was always just as disoriented as now with websites all over the place and impossible to keep track of. Gurus used to visit some sites regularly and have candid discussions with us. There is still nothing new going on besides how much money modders are allowed to make off of the game.

Also, I'ma let you in on a little history here. Back in the day, lots of modders were trying to monetize. There was a group of us who believed that using game assets shouldn't be allowed to make money on the stuff. So we petitioned EA's lawyers to look into the trend. And you'll never believe what came next. Stuff packs! They released stuff packs once they realized how much money they were losing by not releasing more stuff for the game because the community was obviously willing to pay for it. This was also when the gurus took a more distant approach to players. They started praising subscription sites like TSR and even worked with them to build a modding platform. So then it was completely about the money. They left the free sites in the dust. Now with TS4 it is all about influencers with the game created for people that take pictures of the game and don't actually play it. Not to mention that the game was supposed to be an MMO to begin with.

And I can deny that TS2 looks aged. As someone who still plays it regularly, I can tell you that my game looks great. I actually have 90% of the same CC in TS2 that I have in TS4. And it works better in TS2 because doing something out of passion is a lot different from people just trying to make an easy buck. And I know that's how most of these influencers operate. I was part of many groups who's only motives were becoming influencers for the free games and easy money. I stopped modding because I was not ok with hosing people for their money. EA already does enough of that.

"SimmerGeorge;c-17838656" wrote:

"CAPTAIN_NXR7;c-17838330" wrote:


The community had no easy access to these kind of tutorials back in the Sims Online days or even just before TS4 was released. Plus the software wasn’t as user friendly as it is nowadays.
I don’t know for a fact, but I feel confident enough to say that TS4 has generated a lot more content creators compared to the previous titles because of this easy access to resources. In fact, EA/Maxis will most likely use it to their own advantage and so they should if they had any sense from a business POV.

The Sims 2 modding community was absolutely HUGE. Pretty much everyone and their dogs had a website with self-made CC and Mods. Back in the Sims 1 days there was even this piece of software you could use to put any face in the game. I don't remember its name but there were tons of ways to "create" your game back then. It was super easy to use too.
The content creators are maybe more because of how the internet changed. Back in 2004 to 2009 the internet wasn't used for recreational reasons as much as today and by so young people too. You can see that in statistics of any website that was meant for entertainment. They all have way higher numbers of visitors nowadays. I didn't even have internet at home till 2006 at the time.

Also the popularity of Youtubers and Content Creators turned "influencers" is what kind of gives the impression of the community growing. It's just back in the day, creators and players used to hang out in underground forums more.

It was called the Sims Creator. I waited until 2002 to play with tool. My fist self Sim was quite scary looking so CAS tools have come a long way.
https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/The_Sims_Creator