"LiELF;c-17338374" wrote:
"JoAnne65;c-17338129" wrote:
"LiELF;c-17335460" wrote:
"CelSims;c-17335063" wrote:
"ChampandGirlie;c-17333623" wrote:
@Amavari
Respectfully, I disagree with some things that have been said. There was bashing of non-supernatural play in this thread when people said things to the effect of suggesting that all players should be forced to play with supernatural content and should have to mod their games. (Err, I wouldn't buy that game, I'd stop financially supporting it.) I could pick out individual quotes but I won't.
If this is about my comment then I'd like to know why it's acceptable to water down an occult game pack to the point that occult players - presumably the target audience of the pack- feel they need to add mods to get anything other than a game that plays like a realism pack, but it's not ok to suggest that if anyone buys an occult pack without wanting that game play they should maybe be the ones who have to mod to remove it?
I'd prefer a toggle to never have occults spawn at all for the people that don't want them. But without one is it really unreasonable to expect an occult pack to cater to the occult players more than the people who don't want it?
Your comment about stopping financially supporting actually resonates a lot with me, I really should stop financially supporting by buying packs which are supposedly aimed at the things I enjoy yet water it down to the point its just a normal world with normal sims in it.
I'm not bashing non-supernatural play. At no point did I say packs that cater to realism shouldn't exist, or should do anything other than cater to what realistic players want. I specifically talked about occult aimed packs.
Yes!! This exactly!
I remember when Vampires came out, and the devs told us that they wanted to put a lot of focus on them but they knew that not everyone wanted to play with Occults so they specifically put them in a Game Pack all to themselves. The reasoning was that people who didn't want them weren't missing much by skipping the pack, while those of us who did really want them could go nuts with it. Of course, those who like to have separate saves and just dabble with Occult play were kind of stuck making a decision one way or the other, which is unfortunate. But the information was there that no, there wasn't a toggle. The pack was amazing and we who wanted it were blown away. It added some much-needed darkness and gloom to the game (even if we didn't have Fear emotions :s ) and the pack was, I think, the first one since Sims 4's release that was very well received on the forums. And then the realistic players bought it for the furniture and started complaining that they were triggered by Vampire break-ins. I remember they were going to nerf the break-ins at one time and we rallied against it so they didn't, but since then it seems that they did it anyway so that Vampires still come to the door but they don't come in. RIP Vampire autonomous bites. :'(
While toggles seem like the obvious answer, we were told that toggles can lead to mechanical issues in the long run so that's why they try not to use them. I guess it was a lesson they learned from Sims 3 and was one of the design choices that caused problems. But another solution is to have an in-game "trigger", like Sims 2 had. I love this because it's all done immersively and through your Sim. Like, if the player could choose to have their Sim come across Vampire Lore on the computer or in the bookshelves, and find out that they exist, that could trigger them in action. But if a player never selected to have their Sim learn about them, they never show up. I personally prefer this kind of approach because it stays within the gameplay and stories.
But what's done is done and choices were made. The point is that if you got the pack, you were going to get Vampire break-ins. Many Occult players loved this feature and our gameplay was changed because non-Occult players couldn't find a way to live without a few pieces of furniture, bought the pack, complained, and ruined it for us. That is completely unfair.
I think the developers need to stop trying to please everyone by meeting halfway all the time. This is exactly what makes people cry out that everything is "half-baked". If you're going to do Occults, run with it and go all out. If you're going to do family play, go deep. If you're going to put in kegs and parties, go wild. If you're going to have activities, go detailed and include groups. This is part of the formula that made past games so enjoyable. They were unapologetically exaggerated and dramatic and the turnout could always be either good or bad. This made the gameplay exciting.
I mean, why split content into specialized packs in the first place if not to delve deep and go all the way with it? In the end, I think the devs should stay true to the content. Stay on target, rebel leaders!
Toggles in Sims 3 work like a charm, so I have no idea what lesson they needed to learn there? If I want no supernaturals spawning in my Sims 3 game, they simply don't. It's as simple as that and nothing ever broke because of it. The point is, even when you love occults in your game (I do), that doesn't mean you want them crawling all over the place all the time (I don't). The way I play my occults, is that they're a rarity in a normal world. I'd love vampire break ins, I wouldn't want that all the time though. I'd want the ability to choose: toggles. If Sims 3 has taught us ne thing, is that toggles work and they're the best solution. Because it actually means they can please everyone. That's perfectly possible. Maybe simmers should stop thinking/accepting they can't. The problem is, apparently toggles in Sims 4 aren't possible. Let's not drag Sims 3 into that. The game was a mess but it actually did a lot of things right as well.
Please don't derail this thread by making it about Sims 3. I was merely repeating what I had seen the devs state. Neither of us is a Sims developer so neither of us can actually say for sure what did or didn't cause issues, or what will or won't cause issues in the future. Remember, not everyone had their games "run like a charm", especially without mods, same with Sims 4. And Sims 4 mechanics are developed the way they're developed. Five years later, it's not going to change. If toggles cause problems then there's nothing we can do about it and we'll have to accept they're going to be avoided. That's life.
My main point was that if they do decide to move forward with a "Happy Haunts" pack, that they go full into it and don't gimp the content. That's the whole point of having Occult content in a separate Game Pack when you can't have toggles. Not to cater to those who "might" want to play with Occults, but to cater to those who do.
I didn’t. You did.
”I guess it was a lesson they learned from Sims 3 and was one of the design choices that caused problems.”The subject was toggles and for some reason you came up with Sims 3 to ‘prove’ toggles don’t work. While it’s the other way around: toggles clearly do work, they work perfectly and are a perfect solution to cater different kind of players. The devs as far as I know have only stated that toggles are not an option for Sims 4, they haven’t learned anything. They just got rid of things they found complex for some reason, I don’t consider that learning. The Sims 3 link was yours. And it actually is important and not derailing: everybody advocating toggles is completely right and has the franchise’s past on their side to prove it. I’ve never seen anyone complaining about the toggles in Sims 3 not working.
I agree that when you buy an occult pack, you have to be prepared to play with occults. That doesn’t mean you have to accept them to become a complete plague though. Toggles are one way to prevent that. Having to actively trigger them is another, though it doesn’t help when sims start doing that autonomously like with (sorry, have to mention the game again) mermaids in Sims 3.
