"Beardedgeek;c-17775353" wrote:
@MeowchaFrappe I really find the pack very well made, it's just not interesting to me. I just wish I could turn on or off occults for different saves since i usually aren't interested at all and the only ones I actually care about, really, are vampires (part of it being that they are immortal and I tend to be too attached to my starter Sims to let them die which means cheating portions of youth or play with aging off...). But again I like vampires.
"PlanetSixam;c-17775372" wrote:
I've always been a big advocate for toggles, since it gives players the freedom to play however they want, and there would be no need to nerf anything.
I don't think it helps that stuff seems to be tuned either insanely high or not at all. Remember the murphy bed death? Oh boy did that get old quickly. I saw a comment from another forum member who suggested a toggle for deaths too, which I thought was a great idea.
No doubt there might be challenges for including certain toggles, but I hope the developers find a way around it. I'm sure many players would appreciate more options to make gameplay unique to their style.
"halloweenchild;c-17774552" wrote:"PreCiious;c-17773093" wrote:"halloweenchild;c-17768235" wrote:
What you see with Spellcasters is the result of the nerfing of Vampires. Want to know how and why this started? Well it all started because the Guru's decided to make a pack solely dedicated to occults, aka the vampires. Where they would be properly fleshed out and not cramed in as a side feature to a bigger pack (ala Aliens and Mermaids.)
On paper, this was a perfect idea, that way people who wanted the life state and occult themes would be happy and people who didn't would also be happy. a guaranteed win-win situation. Or so they thought.
Turns out that people were unhappy with the gothic BB&CaS items being locked away in a pack dedicated for vampires, because how dare the Guru's try to please everybody.
So, as a result, realism players who hate occult type gameplay brought the pack for the decore items, so naturally, when the occult gameplay kicked in and started to add unlife to the game, the people who brought the pack but didn't want the main feature started to complain on here, Twitter, Facebook etc about suddenly having vampires in their game, when they didn't want them in the first place. Even going as far as to directly contact the Guru's directly to ask for a nerf, stating that the "occult gameplay was taking over normal gameplay", the Guru's eventually caved to the pressure and nerfed NPC vampire behaviour to a 00.01% chance of happening outside of the "tutorial" break-in at the start of nearly every new save.
To this day there are still people complaining about "excessive" vampire break-ins, IMHO they are either lying or are over exaggerating and mistaking a "break-in" for when vampire NPC's turn up at their sim's door-step of a night time for a random visit, which isn't technically a break-in, it's a neighbourhood interaction. There are a difference people! JFC, this topic still gets my goat.
Anyway, this is why Spellcatseres are so restrained, they're shackled to the Magic Realm and behaving like normal non-occult sims because the Guru's didn't want to deal with the "backlash" from realism players again (This also bounces back to Alien abductions being dialled down and Mermaids being so underdeveloped as well). I mean fair enough if you don't want supernatural elements/occult gameplay in your game, but when you buy a pack that has occult/supernatural themes or elements as it's the main selling feature, you don't have a right to complain about it, since you're the one who brought it, you have no one to blame but yourself, so suck it up.
Sorry, this topic just infuriates me. None of the occult gameplay lovers, that I know of, harass the devs over the decision to add more "normal" gameplay, but the moment there is even a lick of supernatural themes the Realism players just come marching out of the woodwork "reee-ing" at the top of their lungs.
Hm... Sounds a bit harsh... I personally didnt play the sims4 in 2017 or do i have the Vampire DLC installed yet, so i dont now for sure but blaming only the realism players for this debacel... alright then.
I mean we now how excessiv the Devs can programm certain stuff into the game, we just have to look at the n.a.p.s for an example. We now how intrusiv Celebs (and unrealistic) can be and i now how often i need a mod to fine tune stuff in the game because its waaaay to much to the point where it becomes annoying (death by murphy bed). In some areas they dont have the balance, you know the middle ground... its rather over the top or none at all... And i have a lot of tweaking mods that start with ''less...'', that do it much better then Maxis ever can... These modders find the balance but for some reason the devs dont?
I am sure there were/are people who cared about the occults but still thought it was too much, just like the phone calls or the visitors...
. I even watched a lets play where a sim got abducted by aliens 3times in a row just because-- Yeah just because... It was random...
And thats another thing... If i have a good vampire he shouldnt just randomly break in the second i dont play with him. Where is the personality...
(I dont even now if that happened, but its the sims 4 so i assume it did)
And there is no reasons why we dont have toggles for this... Its not just family players vs occult players. I am somewhere in between. And if i want an alien civilation where vampires are forbidden and killed or vice versa it should support my play style and my story through the options Menu. There was a reason why we had them in the Sims 3 and it was not just because to appeal to the family players who only cared about the items in an occult pack.
It may be harsh, but it's the truth. People who KNEW that they wouldn't be interested in the gameplay of Vampires brought the pack anyway because they wanted the CaS, B/B and the decore items. And when they discovered that the vampire gameplay was indeed a very active feature of a DEDICATED PACK got huffy and started to complain here on the forums and took to Twitter to pester the Gurus about "dialling down" vampire behaviour, which, might I remind you, they WILLINGLY brought/paid for. Seriously, they only have themselves to blame for their dumb decisions.
That being said, the Gurus also shoulder some of the blame for the current state of vampires, since they're the ones who caved and nerfed the autonomous vampire gameplay. Basically, because you can't nerf individual people's accounts, they had to release a blanket nerf. So those of us in the community who were happy with the gameplay got punished because a bunch of fools couldn't restrain themselves and skip out on a handful of items.
I do understand that there are many aspects of the sims that gets overplayed to the point of annoyance, such as frequent "fail" animations, like the murphy bed, vending machine, being electrocuted or sims just standing around admiring the scenery when in the middle of a task such as eating etc. But the issue surrounding vampires is that a CORE part of the gameplay was taken away because a bunch of people with no impulse control couldn't just "shut-it and deal." (which is a phrase that they often shout at occult players every time we complain about a supernatural feature being taken away.)
Heck, even to this day there are still some who complain about "extremely frequent" break-ins, istg they are either lying or are over exaggerating and mistaking a "break-in" for when vampire NPC's turn up at their sim's door-step of a night time for a random visit, which isn't technically a break-in, it's a neighbourhood interaction. There is a difference!
The best way to stop a vampire you've created from breaking-in is to not give them the "Eternally welcome" skill, seriously, it plays into the vampire's mythos. Once you invite them in, it gives them power over the dominion and they can come and go as they please. So don't invite them in. If you don't want vampires to visit full stop, don't have your sims talk about vampires, don't research the vampire lore at the computer, don't interact with vampire NPC's you see in the game. Seriously there are lots of ways to prevent frequent vampire visitations built into the pack, but people would much rather complain than actually do something about it.
I'll concede about aliens though, especially before they got nerfed (which is another rant in of itself, but I shall spare you because this replay is already long enough, lol.) But I only had frequent troubles with them when my sims were in the Scientist career, otherwise, they weren't in my game at all, unless my sim was unknowingly talking to a disguised alien. So for the most part, aliens are more than happy to leave sims alone. Trust me, in TS2 a sim would get abducted far more frequently just by using the telescope. I had the same sim get abducted maybe seven times in a row, on the seventh he came back with an extra passenger.
"Atreya33;c-17774897" wrote:"Genkider;c-17774822" wrote:
This issue could be so easily Fixed with a toggle in the options menu, most of the realism players vs occult players drama could be solved with toggles tbh. I hope they add them at some point.
Exactly this. If players get a choice through options (fame system, NAP), lot traits (tiny living, paranormal stuff) or even objects (laundry day) then people can buy it and choose themselves if they want to use certain features or not. It would be so much better than toning down a feature for everyone.
"PreCiious;c-17775383" wrote:"halloweenchild;c-17774552" wrote:"PreCiious;c-17773093" wrote:"halloweenchild;c-17768235" wrote:
What you see with Spellcasters is the result of the nerfing of Vampires. Want to know how and why this started? Well it all started because the Guru's decided to make a pack solely dedicated to occults, aka the vampires. Where they would be properly fleshed out and not cramed in as a side feature to a bigger pack (ala Aliens and Mermaids.)
On paper, this was a perfect idea, that way people who wanted the life state and occult themes would be happy and people who didn't would also be happy. a guaranteed win-win situation. Or so they thought.
Turns out that people were unhappy with the gothic BB&CaS items being locked away in a pack dedicated for vampires, because how dare the Guru's try to please everybody.
So, as a result, realism players who hate occult type gameplay brought the pack for the decore items, so naturally, when the occult gameplay kicked in and started to add unlife to the game, the people who brought the pack but didn't want the main feature started to complain on here, Twitter, Facebook etc about suddenly having vampires in their game, when they didn't want them in the first place. Even going as far as to directly contact the Guru's directly to ask for a nerf, stating that the "occult gameplay was taking over normal gameplay", the Guru's eventually caved to the pressure and nerfed NPC vampire behaviour to a 00.01% chance of happening outside of the "tutorial" break-in at the start of nearly every new save.
To this day there are still people complaining about "excessive" vampire break-ins, IMHO they are either lying or are over exaggerating and mistaking a "break-in" for when vampire NPC's turn up at their sim's door-step of a night time for a random visit, which isn't technically a break-in, it's a neighbourhood interaction. There are a difference people! JFC, this topic still gets my goat.
Anyway, this is why Spellcatseres are so restrained, they're shackled to the Magic Realm and behaving like normal non-occult sims because the Guru's didn't want to deal with the "backlash" from realism players again (This also bounces back to Alien abductions being dialled down and Mermaids being so underdeveloped as well). I mean fair enough if you don't want supernatural elements/occult gameplay in your game, but when you buy a pack that has occult/supernatural themes or elements as it's the main selling feature, you don't have a right to complain about it, since you're the one who brought it, you have no one to blame but yourself, so suck it up.
Sorry, this topic just infuriates me. None of the occult gameplay lovers, that I know of, harass the devs over the decision to add more "normal" gameplay, but the moment there is even a lick of supernatural themes the Realism players just come marching out of the woodwork "reee-ing" at the top of their lungs.
Hm... Sounds a bit harsh... I personally didnt play the sims4 in 2017 or do i have the Vampire DLC installed yet, so i dont now for sure but blaming only the realism players for this debacel... alright then.
I mean we now how excessiv the Devs can programm certain stuff into the game, we just have to look at the n.a.p.s for an example. We now how intrusiv Celebs (and unrealistic) can be and i now how often i need a mod to fine tune stuff in the game because its waaaay to much to the point where it becomes annoying (death by murphy bed). In some areas they dont have the balance, you know the middle ground... its rather over the top or none at all... And i have a lot of tweaking mods that start with ''less...'', that do it much better then Maxis ever can... These modders find the balance but for some reason the devs dont?
I am sure there were/are people who cared about the occults but still thought it was too much, just like the phone calls or the visitors...
. I even watched a lets play where a sim got abducted by aliens 3times in a row just because-- Yeah just because... It was random...
And thats another thing... If i have a good vampire he shouldnt just randomly break in the second i dont play with him. Where is the personality...
(I dont even now if that happened, but its the sims 4 so i assume it did)
And there is no reasons why we dont have toggles for this... Its not just family players vs occult players. I am somewhere in between. And if i want an alien civilation where vampires are forbidden and killed or vice versa it should support my play style and my story through the options Menu. There was a reason why we had them in the Sims 3 and it was not just because to appeal to the family players who only cared about the items in an occult pack.
It may be harsh, but it's the truth. People who KNEW that they wouldn't be interested in the gameplay of Vampires brought the pack anyway because they wanted the CaS, B/B and the decore items. And when they discovered that the vampire gameplay was indeed a very active feature of a DEDICATED PACK got huffy and started to complain here on the forums and took to Twitter to pester the Gurus about "dialling down" vampire behaviour, which, might I remind you, they WILLINGLY brought/paid for. Seriously, they only have themselves to blame for their dumb decisions.
That being said, the Gurus also shoulder some of the blame for the current state of vampires, since they're the ones who caved and nerfed the autonomous vampire gameplay. Basically, because you can't nerf individual people's accounts, they had to release a blanket nerf. So those of us in the community who were happy with the gameplay got punished because a bunch of fools couldn't restrain themselves and skip out on a handful of items.
I do understand that there are many aspects of the sims that gets overplayed to the point of annoyance, such as frequent "fail" animations, like the murphy bed, vending machine, being electrocuted or sims just standing around admiring the scenery when in the middle of a task such as eating etc. But the issue surrounding vampires is that a CORE part of the gameplay was taken away because a bunch of people with no impulse control couldn't just "shut-it and deal." (which is a phrase that they often shout at occult players every time we complain about a supernatural feature being taken away.)
Heck, even to this day there are still some who complain about "extremely frequent" break-ins, istg they are either lying or are over exaggerating and mistaking a "break-in" for when vampire NPC's turn up at their sim's door-step of a night time for a random visit, which isn't technically a break-in, it's a neighbourhood interaction. There is a difference!
The best way to stop a vampire you've created from breaking-in is to not give them the "Eternally welcome" skill, seriously, it plays into the vampire's mythos. Once you invite them in, it gives them power over the dominion and they can come and go as they please. So don't invite them in. If you don't want vampires to visit full stop, don't have your sims talk about vampires, don't research the vampire lore at the computer, don't interact with vampire NPC's you see in the game. Seriously there are lots of ways to prevent frequent vampire visitations built into the pack, but people would much rather complain than actually do something about it.
I'll concede about aliens though, especially before they got nerfed (which is another rant in of itself, but I shall spare you because this replay is already long enough, lol.) But I only had frequent troubles with them when my sims were in the Scientist career, otherwise, they weren't in my game at all, unless my sim was unknowingly talking to a disguised alien. So for the most part, aliens are more than happy to leave sims alone. Trust me, in TS2 a sim would get abducted far more frequently just by using the telescope. I had the same sim get abducted maybe seven times in a row, on the seventh he came back with an extra passenger.
Fair enough, interesting to read how it was back then. I guess it works with their current view of the sims 4 where nothing happens outside of your control. Play the game like a dollhouse in a safe space all while expressing yourself, maybe that was the final nail in the coffin to nerf them down and never look at this occult stage.
I dont even understand the nerfing anymore since there were work-arounds? Like what was the point of listening to the complainers. They already got a good amount of money from that DLC, there were (probably) mods that nerfed it down anyways. Seemed pointless and a waste of ressources that could have been spend elsewhere but oh well. EA/Maxis has no problems ignoring complains anyway (Star Wars) so idk.
"MeowchaFrappe;c-17775346" wrote:
So since this is the first time I've seen reactions regarding an occult themed pack, this is the first time I can really give an opinion on the issue.
The way I've seen "realistic" players both on here and especially twitter react to this new up and coming pack (a stuff pack mind you) almost makes me want to start acting the way they do. I tend to be a quiet person who shrinks into the shadows during drama. If I don't like something, i'll ignore it. But considering the realism players are to blame for the only occults we have being so limited: well, it's starting to make me mad and I'm about ready to lash out and start acting like they do just to give them a taste of their own medicine.
I mean I'm not against their desire for a generations pack or farming (although I'd like to see it be more than just that) but after knowing that they're the reason vampires were nerfed, that spellcasters are tied to the magic realm and mermaids are so limited: part of me is hoping they miss out on something they really want. Or that a bunch of us occult players complain to the devs and get one of their features nerfed. Just to see how they like it.
"Sallycutecat;c-17775783" wrote:"MeowchaFrappe;c-17775346" wrote:
So since this is the first time I've seen reactions regarding an occult themed pack, this is the first time I can really give an opinion on the issue.
The way I've seen "realistic" players both on here and especially twitter react to this new up and coming pack (a stuff pack mind you) almost makes me want to start acting the way they do. I tend to be a quiet person who shrinks into the shadows during drama. If I don't like something, i'll ignore it. But considering the realism players are to blame for the only occults we have being so limited: well, it's starting to make me mad and I'm about ready to lash out and start acting like they do just to give them a taste of their own medicine.
I mean I'm not against their desire for a generations pack or farming (although I'd like to see it be more than just that) but after knowing that they're the reason vampires were nerfed, that spellcasters are tied to the magic realm and mermaids are so limited: part of me is hoping they miss out on something they really want. Or that a bunch of us occult players complain to the devs and get one of their features nerfed. Just to see how they like it.
Acting like they do to "give them a taste of their own medicine" won't solve anything. It will just get innocent people annoyed at you and thinking that you're another one of those complaining. These people complaining about occults may not even see what you put, but instead someone looking forward to the pack, who has never done made such comments, might. Then they may get mad and decide to "give you a taste of your medicine" and it will just keep going around and around.
Having one of their features nerfed "just to see how they like it" won't help either. It's not fair to those who never made those comments. I wouldn't want something like say snowboarding nerfed just because years ago someone complained about vampires.
I've said it before and I will say it again: These comments are on every pack announcement. I'm sure it's people trolling. With the announcement of Snowy Escape there were a few comments like "There's not enough danger or adventure" and "we don't need this". Here we had people wanting every pack to be about adventure and full of danger complaining that this is a good pack for people who want to take their Sims on a nice winter holiday. People should just accept that others have different interests to their own.
I do agree that the devs shouldn't nerf or change a feature just because someone who brought it knowing they won't like it, complained. People brought the pack for that feature and it's not fair to them to change it after they have paid for it. This kind of thing does worry me at times. I've seen a number of complaints about Island Living, that there's no resorts, therefore no gameplay. I like the pack just as it is. I like that the pack is about island life. There's a lot surrounding the culture of the islanders. I wouldn't want this nerfed or replaced with some tourist feature just cause someone complained that it's not a tourist focused pack. Although I would rather a toggle option for the mermaids. I had my Sim swim with his girlfriend (who is a mermaid), but because I had no mersims at that point, she never got her tail out. A toggle would allow those who don't want them to never come across them, and those who do will see them. I shouldn't have to have a mermaid in my house just to see other mermaids. But with Realm of Magic and vampires, the main feature of the pack should never be nurfed just because someone doesn't like it. They can never please everyone. They say multiple times that not every pack is for everyone. They would have been better off ignoring those complaints.
What I'm saying here is people will complain about a pack that's not for them regardless of what it is. It's not fair to blame "realistic" players when it's also happening on "realistic" packs. The best thing to do is if everyone, including the devs, just ignored them. Comment on the packs you like, let the devs know you're happy with it and ignore the ones you don't like. If everyone did that the internet would be a safer place, but unfortunately there will always be trolls.
"Beardedgeek;c-17775353" wrote:
@MeowchaFrappe I really find the pack very well made, it's just not interesting to me. I just wish I could turn on or off occults for different saves since i usually aren't interested at all and the only ones I actually care about, really, are vampires (part of it being that they are immortal and I tend to be too attached to my starter Sims to let them die which means cheating portions of youth or play with aging off...). But again I like vampires.
Edit: again, tho, there is some high quality build and cas stuff "locked" behind occults. Especially in the Vampire pack, which not only sparked the criticism of the vampire breakins, but also the idea (which I wish was implemented) that packs like this should have an option to only purchase the CAS and build stuff separately, so if you want the build stuff from vampires but no vampires you would buy all the stuff for maybe $10
