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TriplisTrip
7 years ago

Repetition and Irritation: A reflection on some of TS4's more obnoxious bits

It's a fairly well-known concept in game design (or at least, I think it's well-known) that in games that are significantly non-linear (e.g. not a one track on-the-rails game with few repeating elemen...
AshtontoAshton22's avatar
AshtontoAshton22
Seasoned Ace
7 years ago
I would like to point out that the Quiet trait does not stop Neighbors from being annoyed when practicing music.

About The Sims 4 General Discussion

Join lively discussions, share tips, and exchange experiences on Sims 4 Expansion Packs, Game Packs, Stuff Packs & Kits.33,618 PostsLatest Activity: 5 hours ago
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and Irritation: A reflection on some of TS4's more obnoxious bits","id":"message:1998550","revisionNum":1,"repliesCount":52,"author":{"__ref":"User:user:51486"},"depth":0,"hasGivenKudo":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:the-sims-4-general-discussion-en"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1998550"},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1998550"},"body@stripHtml({\"truncateLength\":200})":"It's a fairly well-known concept in game design (or at least, I think it's well-known) that in games that are significantly non-linear (e.g. not a one track on-the-rails game with few repeating elemen...","body@stringLength":"4628","rawBody":"It's a fairly well-known concept in game design (or at least, I think it's well-known) that in games that are significantly non-linear (e.g. not a one track on-the-rails game with few repeating elements), you want to be wary of things that are repetitive because players are going to encounter them over and over and over, and so the general thought is to make it more like a background actor in a movie than a star character with a catch-phrase.

Probably one of the most commonly known examples of this problem at work is Lydia in Skyrim with her lines like, \"I'm sworn to carry your burdens.\"

I'm sure the sims team has some familiarity with this idea in game design and I'm preaching to the choir, but despite that confidence, I can't help noticing that over the history of this game, there is a pattern of problems in this style slipping through in a way that is irritating and I don't know why.

The examples are unfortunately extensive:

Base Game: Obsession with getting water that is not properly communicated to the player (I don't think this has ever really been addressed. The most frustrated people modded around it and moved on). This would probably be alleviated almost entirely if sims could have more than six visible needs and were given a visible water need, so that it makes sense to the player why they are insisting on going for water. There's also been countless overtuned interactions throughout the game's history, in general. It's hard to remember them all.

City Living: Dream Big and Neighbors making noise. Dream Big was outright broken for a while, causing sims to do it despite being in the middle of other things. And neighbors making noise, I don't think has ever been retuned. It's just this staple of living in an apartment. Even though that's not how living in an apartment works. It is actually possible to live in an apartment and not have many noise complaints. I know from personal experience.

Seasons: Some complain about the going out to see first snow. This exactly fits the kind of problem I'm describing. The first time, it might seem interesting and enthralling. After a while, it's probably just going to be annoying. You're going to see it every single time winter rolls around.

Get Famous: React in Disgust, seems to have no discerning for anything other than being disgusted by everyone, even if they are close family. Some of the celebrity reactions in general (reacting to celebrities) seem to have no discerning for relationships or are broken in that regard (I don't know which one). Celebrities reacting to other celebrities momentarily as if they are fans, family members reacting as if they are fans.


I'm sure others can think of more examples, but the point here is not to rag on every flaw. The point is that there's a pattern of having this problem. I suppose if I'm looking at this more generously, it should be worthy of praise that the examples of annoying repetition aren't more extensive.

The problem is, when this game does have problems of annoying repetition, they tend to go for the jugular. It's not just Lydia saying, \"I'm sworn to carry your burdens.\" It's more like the equivalent of Lydia shoving a mage staff in your inventory all the time and telling you to learn spells.

The worst of these types of problems in The Sims 4 seem to have a habit of interfering with how you see the game and how you want to play it (ex: apartments and noise, reacting to snow). Suffice it to say if it wasn't for modding, you'd probably have had a lot more players who ragequit because of some of these issues over the years. I'm sure you've had plenty who did anyway.

My advice in the new year is, err on the side of being too gentle and letting the player direct too much. I doubt you're gonna have a bunch of sandbox players saying, \"This is too boring because I get to do what I want.\" I know some people love the scripted stuff and you need to have some pushing in there to keep people interested, but it doesn't have to hit them over the head.

Being able to customize your experience is what keeps sandboxes interesting. It allows you to skirt around the repetition and find interesting and unique ways to do things in a sea of mix-and-match possibilities.

And when the game says, \"NO, this is how it's done,\" it interferes with that. It's like someone saying, \"No, no, no\" at a brainstorming session. It kills the creativity. I think it's best to leave that to Monty Python's \"hitting people over the head lessons.\"","kudosSumWeight":1,"postTime":"2019-01-02T16:40:34.000-08:00","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"tags":{"__typename":"TagConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":4,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:1998550_1"},"latestVersion":null,"metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":2366},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","canonicalUrl":null,"seoTitle":null,"seoDescription":null,"isEscalated":null,"placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}},"archivalData":null,"customFields":[],"body":"It's a fairly well-known concept in game design (or at least, I think it's well-known) that in games that are significantly non-linear (e.g. not a one track on-the-rails game with few repeating elements), you want to be wary of things that are repetitive because players are going to encounter them over and over and over, and so the general thought is to make it more like a background actor in a movie than a star character with a catch-phrase.

Probably one of the most commonly known examples of this problem at work is Lydia in Skyrim with her lines like, \"I'm sworn to carry your burdens.\"

I'm sure the sims team has some familiarity with this idea in game design and I'm preaching to the choir, but despite that confidence, I can't help noticing that over the history of this game, there is a pattern of problems in this style slipping through in a way that is irritating and I don't know why.

The examples are unfortunately extensive:

Base Game: Obsession with getting water that is not properly communicated to the player (I don't think this has ever really been addressed. The most frustrated people modded around it and moved on). This would probably be alleviated almost entirely if sims could have more than six visible needs and were given a visible water need, so that it makes sense to the player why they are insisting on going for water. There's also been countless overtuned interactions throughout the game's history, in general. It's hard to remember them all.

City Living: Dream Big and Neighbors making noise. Dream Big was outright broken for a while, causing sims to do it despite being in the middle of other things. And neighbors making noise, I don't think has ever been retuned. It's just this staple of living in an apartment. Even though that's not how living in an apartment works. It is actually possible to live in an apartment and not have many noise complaints. I know from personal experience.

Seasons: Some complain about the going out to see first snow. This exactly fits the kind of problem I'm describing. The first time, it might seem interesting and enthralling. After a while, it's probably just going to be annoying. You're going to see it every single time winter rolls around.

Get Famous: React in Disgust, seems to have no discerning for anything other than being disgusted by everyone, even if they are close family. Some of the celebrity reactions in general (reacting to celebrities) seem to have no discerning for relationships or are broken in that regard (I don't know which one). Celebrities reacting to other celebrities momentarily as if they are fans, family members reacting as if they are fans.


I'm sure others can think of more examples, but the point here is not to rag on every flaw. The point is that there's a pattern of having this problem. I suppose if I'm looking at this more generously, it should be worthy of praise that the examples of annoying repetition aren't more extensive.

The problem is, when this game does have problems of annoying repetition, they tend to go for the jugular. It's not just Lydia saying, \"I'm sworn to carry your burdens.\" It's more like the equivalent of Lydia shoving a mage staff in your inventory all the time and telling you to learn spells.

The worst of these types of problems in The Sims 4 seem to have a habit of interfering with how you see the game and how you want to play it (ex: apartments and noise, reacting to snow). Suffice it to say if it wasn't for modding, you'd probably have had a lot more players who ragequit because of some of these issues over the years. I'm sure you've had plenty who did anyway.

My advice in the new year is, err on the side of being too gentle and letting the player direct too much. I doubt you're gonna have a bunch of sandbox players saying, \"This is too boring because I get to do what I want.\" I know some people love the scripted stuff and you need to have some pushing in there to keep people interested, but it doesn't have to hit them over the head.

Being able to customize your experience is what keeps sandboxes interesting. It allows you to skirt around the repetition and find interesting and unique ways to do things in a sea of mix-and-match possibilities.

And when the game says, \"NO, this is how it's done,\" it interferes with that. It's like someone saying, \"No, no, no\" at a brainstorming session. It kills the creativity. I think it's best to leave that to Monty Python's \"hitting people over the head lessons.\""},"Conversation:conversation:1998550":{"__typename":"Conversation","id":"conversation:1998550","solved":false,"topic":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:1998550"},"lastPostingActivityTime":"2019-01-24T05:44:18.000-08:00","lastPostTime":"2019-01-24T05:44:18.000-08:00","unreadReplyCount":52,"isSubscribed":false},"ModerationData:moderation_data:1998550":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:1998550","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"Revision:revision:1998550_1":{"__typename":"Revision","id":"revision:1998550_1","lastEditTime":"2019-01-02T16:40:34.000-08:00"},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1998563":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","id":"message:1998563","conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1998550"},"author":{"__ref":"User:user:86591"},"revisionNum":1,"uid":1998563,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:the-sims-4-general-discussion-en"},"subject":"Re: Repetition and Irritation: A reflection on some of TS4's more obnoxious bits","readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1998563"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:1998550"},"body":"I would like to point out that the Quiet trait does not stop Neighbors from being annoyed when practicing music.","body@stringLength":"112","rawBody":"I would like to point out that the Quiet trait does not stop Neighbors from being annoyed when practicing 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