The Sims 4 lacks story and depth
After playing Realm of Magic for an interminable amount of time, I have finally been able to piece together what was wrong with the pack and why it left me with such a despondent outlook on the Sims 4...
Forum Discussion
Scobre
Exactly! It seems like they have forgotten that you can tell a story with a toddler, child, or elder. Babis are nothing more than an object that requires fixing every few in-game hours and offers absolutely nothing of interest. Toddlers are still buggy and cause a headache trying to make them work. Children are accessories like famous people have for a show in pictures. Elders are literally designed to be killed and/or forgotten.
Honestly, even the pack made for children had objects you would hardly ever use.
I do not have high hopes for the Sims 5. I have been burned from Sims 4 so much that it will take something ground-breaking (like what that new simulation game is doing) to make me ever consider dropping $60 for the base game and then $550 in DLC.
MaggieMarley
Because, from what I gather, they are more focused on living out their missed youth doing crazy antics and playing single family Sims rather than having children or creating any sort of story or personal content.
The fact that they have yet to realise that, besides a select few question *cough* mods, a lot of mods based around family are downloaded in large numbers.
MidnightAura
Oh my God, your post left me shaking. It seems like you said what I was trying to in less words.
I feel like you hit the nail on the head with the first paragraph. There is no content for these life stages, so they mostly go unplayed or forgotten. The fact that it has been five years and we still do not have bunk beds, trampolines, or other games that children play is a travesty. The fact there is almost nothing for children to do expect collect voidcritter cards, collect MySims(?), and level basic skills on the same objects time and time again should speak volumes.
Then we have elders who could do so much more with almost zero effort. I mean, retirement homes that is a secret world (like the magic HQ) where they can go to live with other people there age where they can rent a room (like an apartment in City Living). There is so much more they could do and it would breathe so much life into them. Their last moments on earth should be relaxing and not stressful. Have them knit a blanket for a grandchild and give that child a memory or attachment to the blanket. I still have the blanket my Nan made for me and a treasure it. It is wool and wool causes me sensory issues, but it sits on the end of my bed.
I have no idea how dog kennels are considered cruel. My mum’s dog loves his kennel and will often run into it and make you chase him. If they did not want to be in a kennel, they would not go in one willingly. Dogs are not stupid. Sheesh!
Oh, God. You are right. This game has become a safe space where the Sims team is trying so hard to be like J.K Rowling and be inclusive of everyone and everything. They seem to forget that they were inclusive and diverse long before anyone else.
Oh, good, I am not the only person infuriated by how quick Sims forget things. Like, this guy just beat you up! Why are you flirting with him!? This Sim was an alien and deceived you! Why are you laughing with her? I miss memories. If they fought someone, they should be reluctant to be friendly with them.
Ah, yes, the siblings hating each other. I set their relationship as low as it could go and within the span of an in-game day, they were best friends. They even had conflicting traits. Sibling rivalry is a real thing. My sister and I have always been close, so I can relate, but my friend and his brother constantly butt heads – even all these years later.
It seems like storytelling and individually in Sims has to take a backseat so people are not offended. It is already common. I changed Morgyn and was essentially abused for changing the Sim to fit my game.
I do not want to play a single young adult Sim. I want to play a family and see how all of them grow and adapt to everyday events.
Maybe in the Sims 9.
Sigy05
I agree. A lot of them see that a lot of people play young adults and that is all they want to release. I guess, in every sense, it is insanely profitable.
Cinebar
I do not think they would say grave in the description (for the Sims 4) as it would offend people. I would argue that adulthood includes elders, but it really does not. I never noticed this and this makes me depressed.
ListentoToppDogg
Can you explain why you disagree with me on toddlers? Not doubting you or anything – I actually think you are right about it – I just want to educate myself and see some more opinions. Toddlers are one of my least played stages due to the bugs with them.
Millennial simulator. Nice. I think that sums it up completely.
Also, yeah, had my Sim cheat on her husband right in front of him and he was flirting with his wife three hours later like it never happened. I honestly cannot even remember if their relationship dropped.
Cinebar
I agree that animations are the most costly and time-consuming part of any pack, but the fact four stages can share animation sets should help cut down on that cost as, from what I can see, there is no differences between teenagers, young adults, adults, and elders casting spells. Heck, even the potion brewing animations are the same.
Now, if elders got tired and rubbed their back, slouched a bit, or held their chest while casting I could argue that it could define the lack of content, but the animations are so standard that it kills me. I could go into Blender right now and create an animation for children casting in the span of two days. Granted, it would not align with anything in-game and would probably not even work right, the point is I could do it in two days without a degree in animation.
I said it in another post:
They made the build/buy objects, then created the world, then created the Create-a-Sim content, then created potions, then added gameplay objects (like wands), then realised that this was a magic pack and sloppily added spells that are nothing more than renamed content from other packs.
JoAnne65
Wait, really? Are you pulling my leg here? I assumed they all started out as bisexual but using romantic options on a certain gender flipped their balance and made them homosexual or heterosexual.
bubbajoe621
I feel like all the other posts in this thread did better at explaining the issues better than I did. I am a little upset (in a good way) about this.
Anyway, I used that talking toilet once and that was because it was already on a lot and I was intrigued. Of course, not intrigued enough to put it on my own lot.
But, yes, we got some floor clutter in Parenthood, but not all kids’ rooms are messy. Clutter that can go on shelves, desks, or somewhere would be fantastic over placing a line of books to fill up the shelves. Like, my child is not having nail polish or body wash in their bedroom! Where are the stuffed toys, the collectables (such as toy cars, toy soldiers, messy papers, snacks, or even a deck of cards?)
After making three bedrooms for children (due to no bunk beds), I realised just how frustrating it is – again! The first bedroom I was able to make work, but the second and third were cheap copies of the first with almost the same objects. I really could have copy and pasted the room and then changed swatches.
-
Thank you all for commenting! I am amazed that I am not the only person that feels this way. Sorry if I missed any of your posts. It took around twenty minutes to collect all the posts and then compile them.
Total editing time of this document is 104 minutes. Haha.
Spoiler
"Scobre;c-17251338" wrote:
You hit so many points in the head for me as well. It gets to a point that there are only so many stories about YA you can tell that the boredom sets in. I agree about the game needing depth and variety in so many areas and I feel something that started to get lost with the Sims 3 and then further with the Sims 4. Whether Sims gains all these things that made the game feel like the Sims only time will tell, but who knows if competition will come in to provide that for players in the meantime. I don't think the Sims 4 will be able to deliver it all in its lifetime and honestly something that has a higher chance of happening with a more modern engine and technology with the Sims 5.
Exactly! It seems like they have forgotten that you can tell a story with a toddler, child, or elder. Babis are nothing more than an object that requires fixing every few in-game hours and offers absolutely nothing of interest. Toddlers are still buggy and cause a headache trying to make them work. Children are accessories like famous people have for a show in pictures. Elders are literally designed to be killed and/or forgotten.
Honestly, even the pack made for children had objects you would hardly ever use.
I do not have high hopes for the Sims 5. I have been burned from Sims 4 so much that it will take something ground-breaking (like what that new simulation game is doing) to make me ever consider dropping $60 for the base game and then $550 in DLC.
MaggieMarley
Spoiler
"MaggieMarley;c-17251352" wrote:"kaylin205;c-17251291" wrote:
The most family gameplay I've seen out of the iterations is from sims 2. They had everything you could hope for in that one. Which is the main reason why it has been a favorite for many people, including me. Some of the gurus don't believe in family playstyle and don't want it in the game. Which is why they haven't added anything for this, and most likely won't. If they did they would need to do an overhaul on all of those life stages. More time = less money
Think about it this way, almost everything revolves around technology and self absorbed humans that do not interact with each other. Hints why the sims are always on the computer or their cell phones not interacting. It feels like they where programmed to be zombies.
Now the bottom line comes to... modernizing the game, spending as little money making everything as possible, and most importantly getting new players.
I don’t understand. Why not?
Because, from what I gather, they are more focused on living out their missed youth doing crazy antics and playing single family Sims rather than having children or creating any sort of story or personal content.
The fact that they have yet to realise that, besides a select few question *cough* mods, a lot of mods based around family are downloaded in large numbers.
MidnightAura
Spoiler
"MidnightAura;c-17251386" wrote:
I agree with the original post. If it’s true that children and toddlers get so little because no one plays with them then I think that’s silly. Give them (and elders) more content and people would play with them.
I can’t fully blame all the poor decisions at EA’s door. EA won’t be telling Maxis to leave children out of say ROM. I doubt it’s EA that’s telling them to give players the millionth toilet and collection in the game. I cannot speak my opinion of EA for fear of banning but we know some decisions are on the devs. Looking at you Grant, taking away the dog houses because HE thought they cruel.
I also think a large part of the issue is the game has changed. It’s less of a life simulator and more a platform for social and political issues. Or to quote Sim Guru Frost “A safe space where we can all learn and grow”. Its a game terrified of offending anyone, so much so we have “snow pals”
Which of course ties in nicely with lack of depth. A game with depth is dull. If my characters don’t care about the choices they make and their environment- why should I? It will never not frustrate me to watch two sims get in a fight and then laugh and joke afterwards. I shouldn’t be fighting my game to make less than positive choices. In fact I shouldn’t have to miss consequences and negative choices. The game masquerades as a life simulator but yet only portrays a utopia life style where everyone is rich and only good things happen. Where is the fun in that? Why should people have to use mods to make the game fun? Sims 3 needs mods to help it run, sims 4 needs mods to make it fun.
The family play is superficial. If you want siblings to hate each other you have to force it, again and again and again. It’s literally a grind. And the game will fight you every step of the way. Grant once made a remark along the lines of “Its not the story we wanted to tell” in relation to the sims 4. But that to me, seems incredibly wrong. We should play the game to tell our stories not have stories forced on us and not have the game try and over. For example the decisions like making sims be super friendly after they have been fighting or indeed making your heterosexual sims gay or vice versa. We should have control of that. It’s ridiculous we haven’t.
For me the Sims 4 legacy is style over substance. It will never change.
Oh my God, your post left me shaking. It seems like you said what I was trying to in less words.
I feel like you hit the nail on the head with the first paragraph. There is no content for these life stages, so they mostly go unplayed or forgotten. The fact that it has been five years and we still do not have bunk beds, trampolines, or other games that children play is a travesty. The fact there is almost nothing for children to do expect collect voidcritter cards, collect MySims(?), and level basic skills on the same objects time and time again should speak volumes.
Then we have elders who could do so much more with almost zero effort. I mean, retirement homes that is a secret world (like the magic HQ) where they can go to live with other people there age where they can rent a room (like an apartment in City Living). There is so much more they could do and it would breathe so much life into them. Their last moments on earth should be relaxing and not stressful. Have them knit a blanket for a grandchild and give that child a memory or attachment to the blanket. I still have the blanket my Nan made for me and a treasure it. It is wool and wool causes me sensory issues, but it sits on the end of my bed.
I have no idea how dog kennels are considered cruel. My mum’s dog loves his kennel and will often run into it and make you chase him. If they did not want to be in a kennel, they would not go in one willingly. Dogs are not stupid. Sheesh!
Oh, God. You are right. This game has become a safe space where the Sims team is trying so hard to be like J.K Rowling and be inclusive of everyone and everything. They seem to forget that they were inclusive and diverse long before anyone else.
Oh, good, I am not the only person infuriated by how quick Sims forget things. Like, this guy just beat you up! Why are you flirting with him!? This Sim was an alien and deceived you! Why are you laughing with her? I miss memories. If they fought someone, they should be reluctant to be friendly with them.
Ah, yes, the siblings hating each other. I set their relationship as low as it could go and within the span of an in-game day, they were best friends. They even had conflicting traits. Sibling rivalry is a real thing. My sister and I have always been close, so I can relate, but my friend and his brother constantly butt heads – even all these years later.
It seems like storytelling and individually in Sims has to take a backseat so people are not offended. It is already common. I changed Morgyn and was essentially abused for changing the Sim to fit my game.
I do not want to play a single young adult Sim. I want to play a family and see how all of them grow and adapt to everyday events.
Maybe in the Sims 9.
Sigy05
Spoiler
"Sigzy05;c-17251456" wrote:"MidnightAura;c-17251386" wrote:
I agree with the original post. If it’s true that children and toddlers get so little because no one plays with them then I think that’s silly. Give them (and elders) more content and people would play with them.
I can’t fully blame all the poor decisions at EA’s door. EA won’t be telling Maxis to leave children out of say ROM. I doubt it’s EA that’s telling them to give players the millionth toilet and collection in the game. I cannot speak my opinion of EA for fear of banning but we know some decisions are on the devs. Looking at you Grant, taking away the dog houses because HE thought they cruel.
I also think a large part of the issue is the game has changed. It’s less of a life simulator and more a platform for social and political issues. Or to quote Sim Guru Frost “A safe space where we can all learn and grow”. Its a game terrified of offending anyone, so much so we have “snow pals”
Which of course ties in nicely with lack of depth. A game with depth is dull. If my characters don’t care about the choices they make and their environment- why should I? It will never not frustrate me to watch two sims get in a fight and then laugh and joke afterwards. I shouldn’t be fighting my game to make less than positive choices. In fact I shouldn’t have to miss consequences and negative choices. The game masquerades as a life simulator but yet only portrays a utopia life style where everyone is rich and only good things happen. Where is the fun in that? Why should people have to use mods to make the game fun? Sims 3 needs mods to help it run, sims 4 needs mods to make it fun.
The family play is superficial. If you want siblings to hate each other you have to force it, again and again and again. It’s literally a grind. And the game will fight you every step of the way. Grant once made a remark along the lines of “Its not the story we wanted to tell” in relation to the sims 4. But that to me, seems incredibly wrong. We should play the game to tell our stories not have stories forced on us and not have the game try and over. For example the decisions like making sims be super friendly after they have been fighting or indeed making your heterosexual sims gay or vice versa. We should have control of that. It’s ridiculous we haven’t.
For me the Sims 4 legacy is style over substance. It will never change.
Some of the producers only see numbers and telemetry in front of them. Hence why they only care about the YA's.
I agree. A lot of them see that a lot of people play young adults and that is all they want to release. I guess, in every sense, it is insanely profitable.
Cinebar
Spoiler
"Cinebar;c-17251595" wrote:
On Origin the description of TS4 is 'shape their lives from cradle to adulthood'. Shouldn't that have said cradle to grave? I don't think it's a mistake, elders are just fluff and not even part of the description of TS4 on Origin and certainly not the grave since there is none in TS4 (graveyards) to honor the dead. That shows you right there elders were never intended to be part of the game if their own description of the Sim life doesn't even include them in the description nor mention grave (cradle to grave) like TS2 generational description did.
I do not think they would say grave in the description (for the Sims 4) as it would offend people. I would argue that adulthood includes elders, but it really does not. I never noticed this and this makes me depressed.
ListentoToppDogg
Spoiler
"ListentoToppDogg;c-17251612" wrote:
I totally disagree with you on toddlers, but agree on everything else. The lack of content for any lifestage that isn't a young adult, the lack of distinct personalities, the lack of any sort of family play, the lack of natural depth among the characters, all of those are reasons why I think TS4 is failing as a life simulator. Plumbella said this in a recent video, it's basically just a modern millennial simulator where you live up your young adult life partying hard, focusing only on yourself, while the other life stages are basically deemed irrelevant. Packs are just about adding more and more stuff (for young adults), and there's nothing to actually make the sims themselves more interesting. Emotional response to situations is also just wack, as sims can cheat on their partners in front of their family and they react like 'whatever'. Traits just add moodlets, whims literally only exist to advertise new pack content (and now even they seem to have been phased out), the gender settings do nothing to actually control who your sim has interest in, there's no substance and no depth to the characters.
Can you explain why you disagree with me on toddlers? Not doubting you or anything – I actually think you are right about it – I just want to educate myself and see some more opinions. Toddlers are one of my least played stages due to the bugs with them.
Millennial simulator. Nice. I think that sums it up completely.
Also, yeah, had my Sim cheat on her husband right in front of him and he was flirting with his wife three hours later like it never happened. I honestly cannot even remember if their relationship dropped.
Cinebar
Spoiler
"Cinebar;c-17251624" wrote:"Trashmagic;c-17251192" wrote:"Cynna;c-17251170" wrote:
I think that the reason that EA leaves out kids and toddlers is simply that it's easier (and cheaper). That's it. It's just easier. The other four life stages are basically the same creature. Teens, YAs, Adults, and Elders are all the same. They share the same animations and the same clothes. Children and toddlers do not.
I agree with you here but you would think that having 4 life stages share clothes/animations/everything would leave more of a budget for kids and toddlers. In the older games most of the life stages were separate. Of course none of us know what this budget is but I don't really understand why kids and toddlers were left out. Makes no sense.
It makes sense when you are given a budget and let's just pretend in was as small as $1000 (you can bet it's way, way past that amount for a GP) and all the money went toward a floating world. An an empty one at that. Because all the money and time went into the aura of what you see before you enter the world. Once you enter the world the money had to go toward a look of being in space, or just hanging in the air. That's not so hard if you don't add backdrops but special backdrops had to be created to make you think you are on the edge and can fall off and darkness or even stars around you.
That left no money for more lots in the livable world nor any money left to create potions not already in the buy reward panel, and just sit around and make up names of spells and curses no one can spell nor remember how to spell or what it was called by next week. Ten years from now no one will remember how to spell one of them. Made up spellings of activities doesn't do the game any good in my opinion. And a waste of money. They aren't even funny names like Bloatyhead in Theme Hospital. I will never remember what even one was named. Like I can remember the name of illnesses in that game. From twenty years ago.
Didn't leave much money for more animations or simulation nor whims to do magic or make a potion nor anything, ziltch. Animations are probably the most expensive thing to do other than a world. Maybe more. But if you spend it all on backdrops like CL and ROM and a few others you have very little left to build gameplay.
ETA: the programming of moodlets/buffs and mood potions are already in base game. You just have to implement it in a way to fit a new animation so money saved there by using the system the game is already built upon.
I agree that animations are the most costly and time-consuming part of any pack, but the fact four stages can share animation sets should help cut down on that cost as, from what I can see, there is no differences between teenagers, young adults, adults, and elders casting spells. Heck, even the potion brewing animations are the same.
Now, if elders got tired and rubbed their back, slouched a bit, or held their chest while casting I could argue that it could define the lack of content, but the animations are so standard that it kills me. I could go into Blender right now and create an animation for children casting in the span of two days. Granted, it would not align with anything in-game and would probably not even work right, the point is I could do it in two days without a degree in animation.
I said it in another post:
They made the build/buy objects, then created the world, then created the Create-a-Sim content, then created potions, then added gameplay objects (like wands), then realised that this was a magic pack and sloppily added spells that are nothing more than renamed content from other packs.
JoAnne65
Spoiler
"JoAnne65;c-17251734" wrote:Sure, the Sims have this hidden sexual (that is going to get filtered, I am certain) preference, but I have lost count on how many times my supposedly straight as an arrow, three kids and a wife at home Sim has gone off the deep end and started flirting with a male bartender for no reason other than it looks fun.
They actually don’t. They had in the predecessors, they don’t in Sims 4. They’re all bisexual and fancy anyone as long as they’re flirty.
(I fully agree with your post by the way)
Wait, really? Are you pulling my leg here? I assumed they all started out as bisexual but using romantic options on a certain gender flipped their balance and made them homosexual or heterosexual.
bubbajoe621
Spoiler
"bubbajoe621;c-17252168" wrote:"NoTalent;d-966558" wrote:
I was designing a boys’ bedroom yesterday and realised how little in the way of décor children actually have.
This. I posted elsewhere that they put out a Kids room pack and included NOT ONE item tagged as clutter.
And everything else. Everyone in this thread Is. Absolutely. Correct.
I was looking forward to this pack and the minute I saw the spell book I was like, oh no.
EA: "wow we put so much effort into a brand new UI".
Me: "yeah and 95% of it is perks and scientist stuff". It's the talking toilet all over again. I'm sure they spent months on it and I used it once, meanwhile I don't have basic stuff that I would use over and over.
I feel like all the other posts in this thread did better at explaining the issues better than I did. I am a little upset (in a good way) about this.
Anyway, I used that talking toilet once and that was because it was already on a lot and I was intrigued. Of course, not intrigued enough to put it on my own lot.
But, yes, we got some floor clutter in Parenthood, but not all kids’ rooms are messy. Clutter that can go on shelves, desks, or somewhere would be fantastic over placing a line of books to fill up the shelves. Like, my child is not having nail polish or body wash in their bedroom! Where are the stuffed toys, the collectables (such as toy cars, toy soldiers, messy papers, snacks, or even a deck of cards?)
After making three bedrooms for children (due to no bunk beds), I realised just how frustrating it is – again! The first bedroom I was able to make work, but the second and third were cheap copies of the first with almost the same objects. I really could have copy and pasted the room and then changed swatches.
-
Thank you all for commenting! I am amazed that I am not the only person that feels this way. Sorry if I missed any of your posts. It took around twenty minutes to collect all the posts and then compile them.
Total editing time of this document is 104 minutes. Haha.
