I'm quite a big fan of how closely balanced a lot of the cars are in EA WRC - the fact that almost all the cars in a class are usually competitive means that usually I see lots of variety in car choice when I compete in Clubs events, which is always nice to see!
Something that's come to my attention, however, is the fact that some cars ingame have power/weight statistics that don't seem to reflect the actual cars' performances - which might make them a less popular or competitive option within their class, or vice versa, ie. they are so far ahead of other cars that not using them costs a lot of pace.
I'm noting a few here in the hope that further down the line, there might be some changes to keep cars' performances more in line with that they are actually capable of.
I am cognizant of the fact such changes would likely change game balance and/or require a full reset of Time Trial leaderboards for affected classes; something I realise is probably unlikely to happen in a game that has already seen v2.3 release.
H2 (FWD)
Peugeot 309 GTI: despite sharing the same engineas the 205 (in presumably similar tune), the 309 has 35hp less than its contemporary. Also, the larger body of the 309 would surely have made the car heavier than the 205 - yet ingame the car is 5kg lighter than the smaller 205. As a result it seems that nobody uses the 309, despite the longer wheelbase giving it more stability - and it not being as nose-heavy as the 205, making for a more stable and accessible platform. By bringing the performance of the 309 closer to that of the 205 it could create a viable alternative for rallies where stability matters.
H3 (RWD)
Renault 5 Turbo: For some reason the Renault 5 has put on 70kg since DiRT Rally 2.0 and DiRT 4? It now weighs 970kg which I feel is a bit much - I think previous games got it right, especially as this is the '83 Tour de Corse model. Again, this might have been for balance reasons, but having the car weigh 900kg would likely make it a viable rival to the McRae Escort. Also - the dispacement being 1527cc is also a bit strange, as that would line up with the Maxi model - which being the 1983 car, this isn't! It may only be a change in a line of text but it would be good to see the actual displacement of 1397cc displayed instead.
DJM Escort Mk2 McRae Motorsport: While there's some debate about whether this should even be in H3, the Escort comes in at 900kg ingame - but DJM themselves had the weight down as being 930kg. Were the Escort a little heavier it might help to even H3 out a little (in tandem with the Renault suggestion above) and give other cars more of a chance of competing.
F2 Kit Car
Citroën Xsara Kit Car: The F2 Xsara ingame revs to 9,750 rpm (at release of Le Maestros DLC). Like the 306 below, I've never actually seen any footage of the Xsara revving this high. The WRC channel has an excellent video of Jesús Puras leading the 1999 Rally Catalunya in such a Xsara, and the sound matches the car perfectly... but it also matches this video of Tapio Laukkanen in a Mk4 Golf. The latter car only revs to 9,000 rpm - and so I think the Xsara's redline ingame has been set a little too high.
Vauxhall Astra Rally Car: The Astra is some 40kg heavier than its class rivals - while I know a 1000kg minimum weight came into force for F2 Kit Cars in 2000, the Astra in-game is the 1998 model - and while I wasn't able to find any data to suggest actual weights for the car, it doesn't make sense to me that the car would be *this* overweight in '98 trim. I know the Hyundai Coupe was initally quite heavy but the Evo 2 model managed to get the weight down; and the Xsara above is a later vintage but also just 960kg! Reducing the weight of the Astra somewhat might make it a more competitive proposition with its increased ground clearance perhaps giving an advantage on faster rallies.
Peugeot 306 Maxi: The 306 ingame has 300hp and the UDP telemetry shows it revs to a staggering 11,000 rpm(!). This was the case in previous games RPM wise too - and while I have seen these figures thrown around on the Web before, I've never actually seen any footage of the 306 revving this high. There's a video of Gilles Panizzi wrestling with what appears to be an Evo 2 306 - but even that only goes up to 9500 rpm or so.
Furthermore, the Evo 1 (1996 model, as seen ingame) actually made closer to 280hp, although it still revved pretty high - definitely north of 9000rpm - but it's my opinion that the 306 in current trim dominates leaderboards simply because it has that much more power than its rivals, when in reality it was quite closely matched in the horsepower stakes to its later Citroën cousin, and the other F2 cars of the time.
Super 1600
Citroen Saxo Super 1600: The Saxo's weight is 1000kg ingame - I think the minimum weight for Super 1600 cars was 950kg? While the Saxo doesn't appear to be as affected by this deficit as other cars on this list (it even takes some Time Trial records) I do wonder why the extra 50kg has been added ingame when the car was supposedly as light as its rivals.
World Rally Car 1997-2011
Citroen C4 WRC: The C4 and the Citroen Xsara are allegedly only 5hp apart, yet the C4 seems to accelerate much faster - while I'm sure improvements in drag and available torque were made in the C4's development, I'm not sure it equates to the sheer difference in acceleration the C4 has to other cars in its class, which gives it an almost indomitable advantage everywhere - especially high speed stages, where admittedly the C4 was stronger than the Xsara anyway - but I feel the degree to which it is faster almost makes it perform in a class of its own. If the C4 recieved a small reduction in available boost/torque, it might allow the other modern WRCs to compete on a more level playing field (Gronholm very nearly took the title in 2007 in the Focus, remember!)
In my testing C4 -10 isn't crazy so OP vs Ford -08, assuming u have tuned car setups for location etc, with default setups and in a certain locations of course difference can be bigger.
Some stage times for cars from my testing and tuning session.
- test stage: TT dry Doctors Hill 11,0km Oceania is close to sea level altitudes(no drop effect to engine power) and quite flat, especially this stage.
Citroen C4 -10 optimally even 5:32.8 (based on my optimal Ford -08 time) - Ford -08 optimally at least 5:33.9 = about +0.10 s/km - Subaru -08 optimally at least 5:35.5 = about +0.24s/km - Mini -11 optimally at least 5:36.8 = about +0.36s/km (down to 1.6L engines so a lot less torque and not best car in 2011 so maybe ok difference to C4, assuming 2011 DS3 was also bit slower like +0.20s/km than C4 2010) - Xsara -03 optimally at least 5:36.9 = about +0.37s/km (imo slightly over performing) - Seat -99 optimally at least 5:37.3 = about +0.41s/km (imo bit over performing) - Subaru -01 optimally at least 5:39.0 = about +0.56s/km - Skoda -05 optimally at least 5:40.0 = about +0.65s/km (imo very under performing) - Ford -01 optimally at least 5:40.8 = about +0.72s/km (imo slightly under performing) - Mitsu -99 optimally at least 5:41.2 = about +0.76s/km - Ford -99 ONLY ESTIMATED for now 5:41.6 = about +0.80s/km (estimation but this can be wrong) - Peugeot -02 optimally at least 5:42.0 = about +0.83s/km (imo bit under performing) - Subaru -98 optimally at least 5:42.8 = about +0.91s/km
These are not 100% accurate differences but gives some sort of picture of them. In another location if roads is much bumpier then older cars can lose even more being overall more unstable, or if stage goes mainly uphill then older cars with less torque output lose more time (torque outputs which aren't mentioned in game at all they vary from lowest about 450Nm up to like highest at least 570Nm)
Rally cars with 2year difference in development like in Citroen C4 -10 and Ford -08 can have that 0.10s/km (or 0.16s/mile) difference in performance.
One option to level out playfield would be option to prevent selection of certain cars in clubs. This was possible in Dirt Rally 1.0 and u could even combine multiple car classes to a single club event. Since then this hasn't been possible for some reason (also dirt rally 2.0 was missing it).
Car weights: possibly set incorrectly in game for some older cars
For exmaple new dlc car H2 rwd Ford Escort RS1600 Mk1 is set to have weight of 1027kg in game. I've been told that minimum weight for Escort Mk1 classification car back then was like 785kg or so. Also Hillman Avenger is much lighter 850kg in same class than this Ford Escort Mk1.
There can be more cars with similar issues.
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I'm quite a big fan of how closely balanced a lot of the cars are in EA WRC - the fact that almost all the cars in a class are usually competitive means that usually I see lots of variety in car choice when I compete in Clubs events, which is always nice to see!
Something that's come to my attention, however, is the fact that some cars ingame have power/weight statistics that don't seem to reflect the actual cars' performances - which might make them a less popular or competitive option within their class, or vice versa, ie. they are so far ahead of other cars that not using them costs a lot of pace.
I'm noting a few here in the hope that further down the line, there might be some changes to keep cars' performances more in line with that they are actually capable of.
I am cognizant of the fact such changes would likely change game balance and/or require a full reset of Time Trial leaderboards for affected classes; something I realise is probably unlikely to happen in a game that has already seen v2.3 release.
H2 (FWD)
Peugeot 309 GTI: despite sharing the same engineas the 205 (in presumably similar tune), the 309 has 35hp less than its contemporary. Also, the larger body of the 309 would surely have made the car heavier than the 205 - yet ingame the car is 5kg lighter than the smaller 205. As a result it seems that nobody uses the 309, despite the longer wheelbase giving it more stability - and it not being as nose-heavy as the 205, making for a more stable and accessible platform. By bringing the performance of the 309 closer to that of the 205 it could create a viable alternative for rallies where stability matters.
H3 (RWD)
Renault 5 Turbo: For some reason the Renault 5 has put on 70kg since DiRT Rally 2.0 and DiRT 4? It now weighs 970kg which I feel is a bit much - I think previous games got it right, especially as this is the '83 Tour de Corse model. Again, this might have been for balance reasons, but having the car weigh 900kg would likely make it a viable rival to the McRae Escort. Also - the dispacement being 1527cc is also a bit strange, as that would line up with the Maxi model - which being the 1983 car, this isn't! It may only be a change in a line of text but it would be good to see the actual displacement of 1397cc displayed instead.
DJM Escort Mk2 McRae Motorsport: While there's some debate about whether this should even be in H3, the Escort comes in at 900kg ingame - but DJM themselves had the weight down as being 930kg. Were the Escort a little heavier it might help to even H3 out a little (in tandem with the Renault suggestion above) and give other cars more of a chance of competing.
F2 Kit Car
Citroën Xsara Kit Car: The F2 Xsara ingame revs to 9,750 rpm (at release of Le Maestros DLC). Like the 306 below, I've never actually seen any footage of the Xsara revving this high. The WRC channel has an excellent video of Jesús Puras leading the 1999 Rally Catalunya in such a Xsara, and the sound matches the car perfectly... but it also matches this video of Tapio Laukkanen in a Mk4 Golf. The latter car only revs to 9,000 rpm - and so I think the Xsara's redline ingame has been set a little too high.
Vauxhall Astra Rally Car: The Astra is some 40kg heavier than its class rivals - while I know a 1000kg minimum weight came into force for F2 Kit Cars in 2000, the Astra in-game is the 1998 model - and while I wasn't able to find any data to suggest actual weights for the car, it doesn't make sense to me that the car would be *this* overweight in '98 trim. I know the Hyundai Coupe was initally quite heavy but the Evo 2 model managed to get the weight down; and the Xsara above is a later vintage but also just 960kg! Reducing the weight of the Astra somewhat might make it a more competitive proposition with its increased ground clearance perhaps giving an advantage on faster rallies.
Peugeot 306 Maxi: The 306 ingame has 300hp and the UDP telemetry shows it revs to a staggering 11,000 rpm(!). This was the case in previous games RPM wise too - and while I have seen these figures thrown around on the Web before, I've never actually seen any footage of the 306 revving this high. There's a video of Gilles Panizzi wrestling with what appears to be an Evo 2 306 - but even that only goes up to 9500 rpm or so.
Furthermore, the Evo 1 (1996 model, as seen ingame) actually made closer to 280hp, although it still revved pretty high - definitely north of 9000rpm - but it's my opinion that the 306 in current trim dominates leaderboards simply because it has that much more power than its rivals, when in reality it was quite closely matched in the horsepower stakes to its later Citroën cousin, and the other F2 cars of the time.
Super 1600
Citroen Saxo Super 1600: The Saxo's weight is 1000kg ingame - I think the minimum weight for Super 1600 cars was 950kg? While the Saxo doesn't appear to be as affected by this deficit as other cars on this list (it even takes some Time Trial records) I do wonder why the extra 50kg has been added ingame when the car was supposedly as light as its rivals.
World Rally Car 1997-2011
Citroen C4 WRC: The C4 and the Citroen Xsara are allegedly only 5hp apart, yet the C4 seems to accelerate much faster - while I'm sure improvements in drag and available torque were made in the C4's development, I'm not sure it equates to the sheer difference in acceleration the C4 has to other cars in its class, which gives it an almost indomitable advantage everywhere - especially high speed stages, where admittedly the C4 was stronger than the Xsara anyway - but I feel the degree to which it is faster almost makes it perform in a class of its own. If the C4 recieved a small reduction in available boost/torque, it might allow the other modern WRCs to compete on a more level playing field (Gronholm very nearly took the title in 2007 in the Focus, remember!)
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I'm quite a big fan of how closely balanced a lot of the cars are in EA WRC - the fact that almost all the cars in a class are usually competitive means that usually I see lots of variety in car choice when I compete in Clubs events, which is always nice to see!
Something that's come to my attention, however, is the fact that some cars ingame have power/weight statistics that don't seem to reflect the actual cars' performances - which might make them a less popular or competitive option within their class, or vice versa, ie. they are so far ahead of other cars that not using them costs a lot of pace.
I'm noting a few here in the hope that further down the line, there might be some changes to keep cars' performances more in line with that they are actually capable of.
I am cognizant of the fact such changes would likely change game balance and/or require a full reset of Time Trial leaderboards for affected classes; something I realise is probably unlikely to happen in a game that has already seen v2.3 release.
H2 (FWD)
Peugeot 309 GTI: despite sharing the same engineas the 205 (in presumably similar tune), the 309 has 35hp less than its contemporary. Also, the larger body of the 309 would surely have made the car heavier than the 205 - yet ingame the car is 5kg lighter than the smaller 205. As a result it seems that nobody uses the 309, despite the longer wheelbase giving it more stability - and it not being as nose-heavy as the 205, making for a more stable and accessible platform. By bringing the performance of the 309 closer to that of the 205 it could create a viable alternative for rallies where stability matters.
H3 (RWD)
Renault 5 Turbo: For some reason the Renault 5 has put on 70kg since DiRT Rally 2.0 and DiRT 4? It now weighs 970kg which I feel is a bit much - I think previous games got it right, especially as this is the '83 Tour de Corse model. Again, this might have been for balance reasons, but having the car weigh 900kg would likely make it a viable rival to the McRae Escort. Also - the dispacement being 1527cc is also a bit strange, as that would line up with the Maxi model - which being the 1983 car, this isn't! It may only be a change in a line of text but it would be good to see the actual displacement of 1397cc displayed instead.
DJM Escort Mk2 McRae Motorsport: While there's some debate about whether this should even be in H3, the Escort comes in at 900kg ingame - but DJM themselves had the weight down as being 930kg. Were the Escort a little heavier it might help to even H3 out a little (in tandem with the Renault suggestion above) and give other cars more of a chance of competing.
F2 Kit Car
Citroën Xsara Kit Car: The F2 Xsara ingame revs to 9,750 rpm (at release of Le Maestros DLC). Like the 306 below, I've never actually seen any footage of the Xsara revving this high. The WRC channel has an excellent video of Jesús Puras leading the 1999 Rally Catalunya in such a Xsara, and the sound matches the car perfectly... but it also matches this video of Tapio Laukkanen in a Mk4 Golf. The latter car only revs to 9,000 rpm - and so I think the Xsara's redline ingame has been set a little too high.
Vauxhall Astra Rally Car: The Astra is some 40kg heavier than its class rivals - while I know a 1000kg minimum weight came into force for F2 Kit Cars in 2000, the Astra in-game is the 1998 model - and while I wasn't able to find any data to suggest actual weights for the car, it doesn't make sense to me that the car would be *this* overweight in '98 trim. I know the Hyundai Coupe was initally quite heavy but the Evo 2 model managed to get the weight down; and the Xsara above is a later vintage but also just 960kg! Reducing the weight of the Astra somewhat might make it a more competitive proposition with its increased ground clearance perhaps giving an advantage on faster rallies.
Peugeot 306 Maxi: The 306 ingame has 300hp and the UDP telemetry shows it revs to a staggering 11,000 rpm(!). This was the case in previous games RPM wise too - and while I have seen these figures thrown around on the Web before, I've never actually seen any footage of the 306 revving this high. There's a video of Gilles Panizzi wrestling with what appears to be an Evo 2 306 - but even that only goes up to 9500 rpm or so.
Furthermore, the Evo 1 (1996 model, as seen ingame) actually made closer to 280hp, although it still revved pretty high - definitely north of 9000rpm - but it's my opinion that the 306 in current trim dominates leaderboards simply because it has that much more power than its rivals, when in reality it was quite closely matched in the horsepower stakes to its later Citroën cousin, and the other F2 cars of the time.
Super 1600
Citroen Saxo Super 1600: The Saxo's weight is 1000kg ingame - I think the minimum weight for Super 1600 cars was 950kg? While the Saxo doesn't appear to be as affected by this deficit as other cars on this list (it even takes some Time Trial records) I do wonder why the extra 50kg has been added ingame when the car was supposedly as light as its rivals.
World Rally Car 1997-2011
Citroen C4 WRC: The C4 and the Citroen Xsara are allegedly only 5hp apart, yet the C4 seems to accelerate much faster - while I'm sure improvements in drag and available torque were made in the C4's development, I'm not sure it equates to the sheer difference in acceleration the C4 has to other cars in its class, which gives it an almost indomitable advantage everywhere - especially high speed stages, where admittedly the C4 was stronger than the Xsara anyway - but I feel the degree to which it is faster almost makes it perform in a class of its own. If the C4 recieved a small reduction in available boost/torque, it might allow the other modern WRCs to compete on a more level playing field (Gronholm very nearly took the title in 2007 in the Focus, remember!)
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World Rally Car 1997-2011
In my testing C4 -10 isn't crazy so OP vs Ford -08, assuming u have tuned car setups for location etc, with default setups and in a certain locations of course difference can be bigger.
Some stage times for cars from my testing and tuning session.
- test stage: TT dry Doctors Hill 11,0km Oceania is close to sea level altitudes(no drop effect to engine power) and quite flat, especially this stage.
Citroen C4 -10 optimally even 5:32.8 (based on my optimal Ford -08 time) - Ford -08 optimally at least 5:33.9 = about +0.10 s/km - Subaru -08 optimally at least 5:35.5 = about +0.24s/km - Mini -11 optimally at least 5:36.8 = about +0.36s/km (down to 1.6L engines so a lot less torque and not best car in 2011 so maybe ok difference to C4, assuming 2011 DS3 was also bit slower like +0.20s/km than C4 2010) - Xsara -03 optimally at least 5:36.9 = about +0.37s/km (imo slightly over performing) - Seat -99 optimally at least 5:37.3 = about +0.41s/km (imo bit over performing) - Subaru -01 optimally at least 5:39.0 = about +0.56s/km - Skoda -05 optimally at least 5:40.0 = about +0.65s/km (imo very under performing) - Ford -01 optimally at least 5:40.8 = about +0.72s/km (imo slightly under performing) - Mitsu -99 optimally at least 5:41.2 = about +0.76s/km - Ford -99 ONLY ESTIMATED for now 5:41.6 = about +0.80s/km (estimation but this can be wrong) - Peugeot -02 optimally at least 5:42.0 = about +0.83s/km (imo bit under performing) - Subaru -98 optimally at least 5:42.8 = about +0.91s/km
These are not 100% accurate differences but gives some sort of picture of them. In another location if roads is much bumpier then older cars can lose even more being overall more unstable, or if stage goes mainly uphill then older cars with less torque output lose more time (torque outputs which aren't mentioned in game at all they vary from lowest about 450Nm up to like highest at least 570Nm)
Rally cars with 2year difference in development like in Citroen C4 -10 and Ford -08 can have that 0.10s/km (or 0.16s/mile) difference in performance.
One option to level out playfield would be option to prevent selection of certain cars in clubs. This was possible in Dirt Rally 1.0 and u could even combine multiple car classes to a single club event. Since then this hasn't been possible for some reason (also dirt rally 2.0 was missing it).
Car weights: possibly set incorrectly in game for some older cars
For exmaple new dlc car H2 rwd Ford Escort RS1600 Mk1 is set to have weight of 1027kg in game. I've been told that minimum weight for Escort Mk1 classification car back then was like 785kg or so. Also Hillman Avenger is much lighter 850kg in same class than this Ford Escort Mk1.
There can be more cars with similar issues.
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