@MetalliXsuicide wrote:
@Rhendyr wrote:
No plants vs zombies people? That's laughable. The majority of those whining about plants played Plants almost exclusively, and still try to, the ones speaking reason tend to be those who went back and forth.
Plants have, on average 4 health points more, the disparity was greater before the Imp's hp increase (Rose's decrease was offset by Corn's increase.) the Mech argument is moot, it dies so quickly, anyone who lets a mech be a factor deserves to lose (I've solo killed so many mechs it's ridiculous), plus it's an ability, I didn't count Citron's hp increase from his shield, even though it's cool down is a fraction of the Mechs. If one is going to count the Mech, then they must count Citron's shield, and count the +25 however many times they can use it during the same cool down as the Mech for fairness.
The speed is hard to prove or disprove, it's always felt to me that when I played Plants, their natural speed was much higher on a whole, but, they had fewer gap closers. In my mind, that makes them better suited for defense.
You want to compare Crowd Control?
Plants:
EM Peach
Spin Dash
Time Snare
Goatify
Goop
Spikeweed
Zombies:
Sonic Grenade
Turbo Twister
Gravity Grenade
Smoke Bomb doesn't count, if it were a true/real Blind, then it would. Or, if it made your cross hairs stay white instead of turning red when on a target, then it would. But as is, it "blinds" the Zombis as much as it "blinds" the plants, so if you insist it be counted as CC, it would apply to both sides.
Plants have higher healing, better defensive abilities (more things to place or toss to go boom or snare/slow down/stop), more CC, and now only slightly better overall HP's and I still believe higher overall natural movement speed. Zombies deal more dmg, and have more gap closers.
Citron's shield doesn't count because as a mech you get abilities, you are literally a new character. I love mechs they are strong and fun but they are also a big target and the point of concentrated fire, which is why they always die quick. About the speed, i believe its equal. Though imps do feel fast.
CC wise:
Spin dash is not CC
Goatify is not a real CC, the goats can kill.
Spikeweed - it's not really something you launch at a crowd, its a mine type thing which is easily avoided and destroyed.
Dont forget, zombies have rodeo canon and that turret for engineers. That canon hits for 50 a pop and 20 for splash.
I place smoke bomb as a CC because it sort of blinds the area and damages plants. And usually soldiers follow up a smoke bomb with ZPG...
I think the healing portion is now equal. Scientists heal as good as sunflowers.
Furthermore, what fuels the unbalance feeling is the aiming mechanics. Plants have to really be out there to shoot zombies where as zombies can afford to hide behind cover and be more discreet.
I'll grant you your argument about the Mech, it's a well thought out one and I'll change my mind on it.
We have a disagreement here on some CC though, and a basis for that may be our differing definition of what is considered Crowd Control. In my experience, from a LOT of PvP based MMO's, here is my definition of Crowd Control in an online game...
Crowd Control is any ability that is designed to move, slow down, stop, stun, silence, blind, disrupt movement or abilities, take control of a player or otherwise change who they are and how they function.
With that said...
Spin Dash knocks people back, and will knock them out of their abilities. That to me is a form of CC.
Goatify is still a form of CC, as you do considerably less dmg in it, have a harder time getting away while still taking a lot of dmg. It's actually probably the best CC in the game.
Spike Weed roots people in place, and is still a form of CC. I killed a Super Brainz earlier who was spinning on me by dropping it, it pulled him in, I then had time to goop and swallow. That root has saved me many, many, MANY times and has turned a sure death into a kill a lot as well. It's a form of CC.
The rodeo cannon and such as damaging abilities, they aren't forms of CC, the smoke bombs dmg capacity is, well, dmging, not so much CC. Personally I think it needs reworked, as it currently is it blinds the zombies as much as the plants and really only seems effective for masking a get away.
The Scientist can 'kind' of get close to the sunflower in healing if he gets rid of his mines and goes with the heal bomb instead, though the heal bomb doesn't heal multiple people over time like the heal flower does. Basically, the Engineer does higher 1 hit dmg, while the Sunflowers is more continuous, the flower heals better, but doesn't have a gap closer. I could go into the math if you want? I would bet much like Zaheen's Engineer vs Rose argument that the Sunflower probably has just as high, if not higher DPS over time, but that it just has less "burst" dmg.
