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holger1405's avatar
holger1405
Hero+
6 years ago

Re: Mass Effect Andromeda 2 is a must

@gngmelcalaniye 

gngmelcalaniye wrote:

Now, here's the issue I have with this statement. "Blaming" EA was one way for fans to vent out and keep their hopes up for BioWare. What you're saying is that EA didn't have anything to do with it and BioWare shot itself in the foot. So, the rumors that BioWare is on a downward trend in terms of management and bad decisions should also be true. in the deep down I kinda wished it was EA's fault so BioWare could pull what Bungie did with Activision and parted ways. 

Oh well... Maybe, just maybe, some time in the future some capable people revisit this franchise and make it great again. The base is there, it's not solid but it can be. A lot of plot "holes" to be answered, a lot of place to grow, a lot of potential for story development



I guess time will tell. 

See, that is my point, I don't "blame" Bioware for anything. (except giving up on the game after the hate-train.)
In my opinion Andromeda is a good game, not as great as the Trilogy, but still a good game. 

It is nothing wrong to point out problems or to offer constructive criticism, what happened after the game was released was nothing of that.

The focus on some bad facial animations that started the whole thing is imho nothing but superficial and had nothing to do with gameplay, and the question if this is a good game or not. (Something that is purely subjective anyway.)

Some other reasons for the hate-train where more political than game related.

This does not mean that I think Bioware is not to criticize for decision they maid during development, the certainly did made big mistakes, and you have to criticize Bioware for it, only then they will have to deal with their mistakes. If they have EA as a scapegoat the could hide behind it.

But there is imho simply no reason for doom and gloom regarding Bioware. They have made more good decisions than bad over the years, and the perception of Andromeda as a "very bad game" is in my opinion more due to the bad publicity after the release than to the game itself.

10 Replies

  • gngmelcalaniye's avatar
    gngmelcalaniye
    6 years ago
    @holger1405 wrote:

    But there is imho simply no reason for doom and gloom regarding Bioware. They have made more good decisions than bad over the years

    Correct me if I'm wrong but all of BioWares latest projects (namely "Star Wars: The Old Republic", "Mass Effect Andromeda" and "Anthem") where huge flops...! They even messed up the ending of the "great" Mass Effect trilogy. So, what "good decisions" are you referring to? 

  • SolCreed's avatar
    SolCreed
    6 years ago
    @gngmelcalaniye
    Baldur's Gate
    Dragon Age Origins
    Dragon Age Inquisition
    Knights of the Old Republic
    Jade Empire.

    They've made some fantastic games, true the end of ME3 is a kick in the *, but at least they gave us something FREE to correct it. Plus the DLC for ME3 more than made up for it. Citadel is probably the best DLC for ME they've made.
    Don't forget that EA likes almost full control too. So, whatever bad decisions went on with ME3, they need to take their fair share of the blame. Seems unfair to lump Bioware with all of it.

    Same thing happend with Visceral and Dead Space. They forced them to put MP on it, which unsurprising failed and dragged the quality of SP down with it, determined to not be proved wrong, they added a pointless co-op on to DS3 and killed that too. Blaming Visceral for everything, then disbanded them. Thank yourself lucky Bioware are still here after Anthem (which is obvious it'd be a flop from the moment it was announced).
  • mcsupersport's avatar
    mcsupersport
    Hero+
    6 years ago

    @SolCreed 

    Have to disagree with EA being much at fault for either ME3 ending or Anthem.  From everything I have seen about EA's involvement, they listed they wanted MP and let Bioware do their thing....it was someone inside Bioware that mucked up ME3 endings and my goodness Shepard's run....yeah, EA's name was on that, but they didn't micromanage Bioware to cause them to stuff it up.  As far as Anthem goes, EA gave them like 6 years time to create Anthem, and a game with   HUGE potential to be a really fun game, was messed up by Bioware's mismanagement.  The crew that did BG, DAO KoTOR and JE, are LLLOOONNNGGGG gone, and maybe even some of the magic.   Whether  it is EA's fault of driving people away or just people moving on because of passage of time, I don't know, but I know MEA was farmed out to the 2nd crew of Bioware, and it showed. 

    Sadly, with a bit more patching and a few less trolling haters of all things EA, MEA had the potential to be a really awesome game, but personally I think the Devs forgot that it took 3 games of Original ME to get the character and world development we saw in the series and tried to do too much.  If they had of just compared MEA to ME1, and went for similar scope, I think the game would have been much better, but instead they tried to do ME3 scope of people and places forgetting that ME3 had ME1 and 2 to set the stage.

  • SolCreed's avatar
    SolCreed
    6 years ago
    @mcsupersport You know what? I didn't even realise that Anthem's development was the same time as Andromeda. Makes me glad I skipped it if that's the case.

    Yeah, it is a shame. I've always heard bad thing about EA when it comes to being a parent company/publisher.

    And YES, finally, I said that to a buddy the other day about MEA should have been treated as an ME1, but it shouldn't have forgotten the trilogy completely. People never believe me when I say most of the characters were too far evolved from the get go. On my PS4 first run through of the story I particularly see this too often when you take PeeBee and Jaal out together. One minute she's saying kick him out and the next she's loving his company when you're wandering around Voeld.

    Maybe I am a bit harsh on EA sometimes, I don't know, but I guess we'll never truly know how they manage a company or how that company tries to build their games.
  • gngmelcalaniye's avatar
    gngmelcalaniye
    6 years ago
    @SolCreed wrote:
    Baldur's Gate
    Dragon Age Origins
    Dragon Age Inquisition
    Knights of the Old Republic
    Jade Empire.

    All these games where pre-EA, and honestly are the titles that made their name on the industry, so my original question still stands... What "good decisions did BioWare make the last decade?"

    @ wrote:
     
    If they had of just compared MEA to ME1, and went for similar scope, I think the game would have been much better, but instead they tried to do ME3 scope of people and places forgetting that ME3 had ME1 and 2 to set the stage.

    Unfortunately, only at the end does ME:A hints the players that there is something waaay bigger going on in the world and up till then, the game has already lost the player. On the other hand, the same thing could be said about ME1, where the player only at the end learns about the Reapers and the severity of the problem. And that's my issue, I think... In ME:A, you never feel on the "backfoot". You don't come up against ANYTHING "out of your league". Everything hostile you meet, you blast it down. Gives you the feeling that "hey people, we're the new bosses of this galaxy".

    And yes, I too feel that the characters should be treated as a new cast that you have to "like" from scratch, like you did with the crew on ME1 but c'mon... ME1 not only made you like EVERY character of the crew, it forced you to sacrifice one of them...!! On ME:A, half the game you spend trying to prove to Cora that it wasn't a bad call for Alex to chose you as Pathfinder and not her and try to fend off Liam's sexual urges... Like, c'mon.... 

    @SolCreed wrote:
    Maybe I am a bit harsh on EA sometimes, I don't know, but I guess we'll never truly know how they manage a company or how that company tries to build their games.

    At the moment, I'm giving EA the "Ubisoft treatment". Not buying ANYTHING bearing the "EA" logo "day one" until I have a better opinion on the product. ^_^

  • SolCreed's avatar
    SolCreed
    6 years ago
    @gngmelcalaniye I learnt that the hard way with Andromeda. Was happy to have skipped Anthen as well with everything people said about it. Actually, you could go back to Dead Space 3, when I started realising a lot of EA titles left things to be desired.
  • holger1405's avatar
    holger1405
    Hero+
    6 years ago

    @gngmelcalaniye 

    gngmelcalaniye wrote:
    SolCreed wrote:
    Baldur's Gate
    Dragon Age Origins
    Dragon Age Inquisition
    Knights of the Old Republic
    Jade Empire.

    All these games where pre-EA, and honestly are the titles that made their name on the industry, so my original question still stands... What "good decisions did BioWare make the last decade?"

    EA took over Bioware in 2008

    Dragon Age Inquisition is from 2015 (Game of the year), Mass Effect 3 from 2012, Mass Effect 2 from 2010 and Dragon Age Origins from november of 2009.

    So imho they did lots of things right in the last decade, plus non of this games you mentioned are "huge flops", not even Andromeda.
    It for sure sold not as many copy's as Bioware hoped for but it still wasn't a financial flop. (And I said what I think about the perception of the game as a "really bad game" overall.)

  • gngmelcalaniye's avatar
    gngmelcalaniye
    6 years ago
    @holger1405 wrote:

    So imho they did lots of things right in the last decade, plus non of this games you mentioned are "huge flops", not even Andromeda.
    It for sure sold not as many copy's as Bioware hoped for but it still wasn't a financial flop. (And I said what I think about the perception of the game as a "really bad game" overall.)

    Flop = Advertising and people expectations over actual project. It wasn't a financial flop because people like me bought the game day-one, not waiting for reviews. Unlike Anthem. Star Wars: The Old Republic started off great but mistake after mistake after mistake brought it to the state where it is now. And don't get me wrong, as a Single Player campaign, SWToR is still awesome but as a MMORPG??? HUUGE flop. So, fan-boyism aside, BioWare has taken a downside trip. Is it EA's involvement? Is it bad management from BW side? The fact is they need to come up with something BIG in order to clear their name. Past honors can only keep you relevant so long...

  • holger1405's avatar
    holger1405
    Hero+
    6 years ago

    @gngmelcalaniye 

    Flop = Advertising and people expectations over actual project.

    Something that is purely subjective as well btw.

    @gngmelcalaniye wrote:
    So, fan-boyism aside, BioWare has taken a downside trip.

    In my experience Fanboys try to blame EA for Bioware's mistakes. 😉
    But as said, they made mistakes, no doubt, to abandon Andromeda was the biggest imho, but they did not made the same mistake with Anthem.

    What they need to do is to make good games. I think they are very well capable of doing that.

  • SolCreed's avatar
    SolCreed
    6 years ago
    @holger1405 They are totally capable of it, I think they need to atract some more experienced staff in big game worlds back on the roster.

    Also, if Andromeda gets a sequel, downscale it abit. As someone saod earlier in the thread, it felt like the game just had everything thrown at it as if it was an ME3 shape game. Instead of treating it as an ME1 style game and building andromeda from the ground up like they had to do with Milky Way.

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