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@Vhalei wrote:
@kartikins the whole point of the circle is to remove portions of the map from play. The problem has forever been that people can simply spend the first 10 mins or so of the game using the circle to avoid combat while they get free access to any unlooted areas, and people just generally lingering in places where they should be restricted from. If your deathboxes are in a restricted area and you can get your gear and run quick enough, fair play and good luck. If not? Bad luck. Find new gear.
Another solution I have seen that I think would work is a second, slower moving, circle. It follows behind the first circle, and instantly kills anyone who steps outside of it. They could add a significant delay and varied distances that it stops without completely aligning with the initial ring (maybe 100m of ring first after 2 mins, then later 10-15m of accessible ring after 30 seconds).
If you decide to drop further away from the circle there is now more urgency to loot faster and move closer to the action. Sure it's going to be a safer play, but you won't have that luxury of time looting up while other squads are eliminated. There's also a risk of the chance of an enemy squad looking down your way as you run from the ring, so you'll have to contend with both as you flee from it.
Do you feel the ring should be feared?
You stated the following:
"If you decide to drop further away from the circle there is now more urgency to loot faster and move closer to the action. Sure it's going to be a safer play, but you won't have that luxury of time looting up while other squads are eliminated. There's also a risk of the chance of an enemy squad looking down your way as you run from the ring, so you'll have to contend with both as you flee from it. "
Just out of curiosity when jumping from the ship how do I know where the circle is going to be? I am a veteran player from Fortnite and that was and always has been the challenge. Where is circle going?
I don't "decide" to drop further away from the circle any more than anyone else does. What I and the people I play with do is launch where we think we want to go, watch other squads and pick a zone close to if not on top of other squad to loot and engage as fast as possible. This has been the strategy we have used in every battle royale type game we play together.
I posted earlier about our experience with the circle, but after reading this comment I felt the need to respond. There is no way to decide in the beginning how far away from the circle you are going to be and under the current "elite" circle damage settings all this game is doing as soon as you see the circle on the other side of the map, you better stop looting/not pick a fight, chicken up and run.
Honestly I put no value on the multi streak badge and laugh if I am in a random fill game with a level 20 player who has 5 streaks and less than 20 kills on their character.
I like the concept behind the elite and I hope you guys do address the storm damage. But I also feel there is so much more that could be tweaked in this game at this point that I will continue to play normal Apex and rack up a couple hundred thousand more legend tokens.
On a side note the game is pretty well polished and one helluva fun game to play, thanks for the fun times.
@Vhalei wrote:
@mastiffslingerThere is a certain amount of rng to the game, thats kinda the point. Drop relay and zone is in thunderdome? Bad luck, better move quick. Complaining about that rng element is akin to complaining about loot tiering. You drop on a mazibique, your enemy drops on a peacekeeper? Bad luck, try again. You really are given quite a lot of time to get a wriggle on at the start. Almost immediately after you drop you know where the ring is going to go, and if its far away you should start planning for that immediately and not waste time in a 5-10 min poke battle.
You're saying that by having more damage and being faster, the circle amplifies the affect of RNG in Apex Elite compared to ordinary Apex because players have less time to prepare for battle. You believe that if looting is even more of a lottery in Apex Elite that it will prove who the real Champions are even though or even because the result is more dependant on RNG?
If that isn't what you're saying then why are you advocating RNG in Elite Queue?
Surely the fairer and more equal a game is the more likely you are to find who has the more skill and is the best?
If the game is more random than ever then surely the results are more random as well? 🤔
@warslag wrote:
@Vhalei wrote:
@mastiffslingerThere is a certain amount of rng to the game, thats kinda the point. Drop relay and zone is in thunderdome? Bad luck, better move quick. Complaining about that rng element is akin to complaining about loot tiering. You drop on a mazibique, your enemy drops on a peacekeeper? Bad luck, try again. You really are given quite a lot of time to get a wriggle on at the start. Almost immediately after you drop you know where the ring is going to go, and if its far away you should start planning for that immediately and not waste time in a 5-10 min poke battle.You're saying that by having more damage and being faster, the circle amplifies the affect of RNG in Apex Elite compared to ordinary Apex because players have less time to prepare for battle. You believe that if looting is even more of a lottery in Apex Elite that it will prove who the real Champions are even though or even because the result is more dependant on RNG?
If that isn't what you're saying then why are you advocating RNG in Elite Queue?
Surely the fairer and more equal a game is the more likely you are to find who has the more skill and is the best?
If the game is more random than ever then surely the results are more random as well? 🤔
The skill doesn't come into play from the RNG, its how you manage what you have and use it to get the kills and the win. High risk high reward based on chance. And I dont think the circle should move faster, but have more damage? definitely. Skilled players keep track of it and utilise it to pressure other players. The skilled player is the one who knows what they have, what the enemy has, and manipulates the situation to their advantage instead of crying about the game not being fair. We could just cover every single loot area in tier 3 shields, peacekeepers, r99s, r301s and call it a day, because that makes the game fair and removes the RNG, but that would break the game. The fun aspect of battle royales is getting what you are given by the numbers and working the situation into a victory.
The topic is feedback on the increased circle damage. I gave mine. I also responded to an earlier statement about deciding to land outside circle because in the context written it sounds like an informed choice. Which obviously it isn’t since it is random.
Community Manager
@mastiffslinger wrote:
You stated the following:
"If you decide to drop further away from the circle there is now more urgency to loot faster and move closer to the action. Sure it's going to be a safer play, but you won't have that luxury of time looting up while other squads are eliminated. There's also a risk of the chance of an enemy squad looking down your way as you run from the ring, so you'll have to contend with both as you flee from it. "
Just out of curiosity when jumping from the ship how do I know where the circle is going to be? I am a veteran player from Fortnite and that was and always has been the challenge. Where is circle going?
@mastiffslinger
There's no way to know where the circle will first appear, but in general if you land in the corners of the map you're increasing your chances of having to run further if the ring appears towards the opposite end of the map. It's very possible the circle's end can still appear in your corner, but if you land near the middle you'll usually have a lesser distance to run. If you're Pathfinder though, you can see where the next ring will be by tapping one of the beacons. Huge advantage towards the end so you can make a defensive stand while others are running from the ring.
@kartikins
From what I'm seeing the feedback is that the ring's strength is too strong and needs to be slightly nerfed.
What do you all think about not nerfing the strength of the ring but reduce the speed of it so you have more time to loot and outrun it?
Utilizing the ring for fighting & looting is/was an integral part of the gameplay.
A risk/reward decision that the player made.
You've pushed ring damage up so high that this risk/reward decision had been almost entirely removed; no finesse, or complexity of choice, just a binary 'in ring -> good, outside ring -> dead'
There's no venturing into the storm to out flank or reposition, no res'ing in the storm, no weighing up of looting vs moving, no fights in the storm.
It's thoroughly detrimental to gameplay.
So, at first I didn't like this change which I'm going to put down to a possible spike in cheating when Elite Queue was released.
But I have also noticed the players are sticking together and working together more. Which is quite an important thing to bear in mind because I think that anything that gets players to need each other is going to be positive. I think I'm going to need more time to assess the changes to damage but at the moment I'm starting to think that ordinary Apex could also do with a tweak to circle damage just so that it at least stings a bit more.
@EA_Blueberry "Needs to be slightly nerfed"?!?!? Omg please read the comments just following that last reply of yours -
@TheJumpingJawa "You've pushed ring damage up so high that this risk/reward decision had been almost entirely removed; no finesse, or complexity of choice, just a binary 'in ring -> good, outside ring -> dead'"
@h5mf0vcnd32w "no it needs to be extremely nerfed - no actually reverted!"
@WookieSlayer_x "The change in circle damage from standard Apex to Elite is very unbalanced. This should be reduced greatly."
@GUZZ_ZYN "We literally do not have time to even fight unless you get lucky and drop inside of circle 1. Why should I be punished for dropping at the most aggressive position for the current game in a game modes that supposed to promote competitiveness and aggressive play? It’s absurd"
@GhostRaiden91 "legitimate players are all dying to the storm either after a fight or don't even make it because the storm kills us in less than 3 seconds!!! i get that you guys are trying to stop the outside storm camping, but to increase the first storm ring damage from 1% to 15% is just crazy!!!"
and
"Man This new Storm/Ring update makes apex not even fun.... :'\"
@Gidoru "I dont know how good you are at math, but it seems to me like the game LOST a lot of strategy."
and
"Respawn needs to stop listening to Reddit echo chamber for feedback. This change is bad."
@Dargone21 "Yay! Three squads killed by ring while fighting, with no chance to escape."
Sry @EA_Blueberry but I think you're just seeing what you want to see. Most people think this is WAY TOO FAR and mostly completely unnecessary. I still think 7dmg per tick on first ring is way too much as it doesn't give players time to do anything except run...
Mid combat? Forget it - you'll still die way too fast to hang about fighting
Looting after win? No chance can't loot and heal.
Respawning? Not a hope, you'd be down before you got to respawn beacon and your teammates wouldn't stand a chance without healing items and wouldn't have time to get them
Imo anything above 4dmg per tick is too much, and even that will seriously reduce options in some situations. Like I said in previous posts it wouldn't be difficult to create a system whereby damage in scale depending on the situation.
4dmg per tick base.... if you are currently in combat then you get a 75% damage reduction until the combat ends (i.e 1dmg per tick)... if combat ended in last 30 seconds you get a 50% (2 per tick) reduction... 30-45 seconds you get a 25% (3 dmg per tick) reduction and more than a minute no reduction.
OR have a system whereby while the ring is moving it does more damage the deeper you are in it... so when it first crosses you you only take 1 dmg per tick... 50 meters in it ups to 2 dmg per tick, 100m in and it goes to 3dmg per tick, 150m goes to 4dmg per tick and 200m or more it goes to 5. Then multiple those numbers by the time you are outside... up to 30secs x1; 30-45 x2; 45-60 x3 and over 60 x4. That way you give players a little more time and freedom.
Once again, where is the proof that SO many players are abusing this anyway? As people keep saying, this reduces many useful and legit strategies and makes the game "dumber" to play... sure it's annoying if you do get caught by campers, but if it's only one team out of 20 or maybe more who actually do this you are screwing over the majority of players to stop the odd idiot team... I don't think camping is destroying the Apex community (although hackers might)
And news flash now teams can exploit this and be encouraged to camp, teams with a pathfinder can get a few nades, camp in a bottleneck just inside the next ring, and simply wait for teams to come though who will be very weak and have lost all their health to the stupid ring damage and then nade spam them to death... great strategy, really deserving or rewards, they don't even need guns... if you nade spam a team as they are coming into the ring you stop them going forward into the nades and keep them in the ring until they are knocked... then with a lifeline you can loot all their stuff by running in and out of ring to get their things.
If you want to specifically target campers then in my previous posts I suggested ways to do that, but yes they involve more complex calculations rather than just applying blanked damage to every single player regardless of situation. The suggestions in this post however are really not that complex to introduce and can be applied to all players without that much work. Octane already has a system which decides whether he is "in combat"... then you just need to add a multiplier based on time... jeez I am pretty sure I could code that (well maybe not in Source but certainly in Unreal or Unity - thanks for keeping up with the times Valve)
Are you really that stuck for resources that you are unable to provide a more nuanced solution than one damage all the time for everyone?
I agree 1dmg per tick is maybe a little low in Elite mode as you can stay outside healing for a long time if you want, so I am in favour of a slight increase... but I think even just doubling it would discourage a lot of people as you use more health items and spend more time healing thus less time looting... going above 4 is. imo totally ridiculous and complete overkill. I also think second ring should not be increased that much either, it's only when you get to ring 3 that the damage should start seriously ramping up.
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