Forum Discussion

5 years ago

EA Nerf Wingman pls

Wingman is always OP in these seasons. High damage, no damage falloff and suitable for all range combat. Wingman is just a PISTOL, so please at least add the damage falloff like other guns. And in...

loot

weapons

HLNorsemane

5 years ago

@Xx__Miku831__xX"That shows that wingman is not supposed to fight for long range. You cannot say that since sniper rifles are hard to fight in close combats, then we should increase the damage when someone lands a headshot within several metres. It is a joke as sniper rifles definitely have a tough time against short range targets. Hence, wingman should have less ability to fight long range, and we should not compensate them with no damage reduction on long range." Your logic is so very broken.. I'll try my best to break it down for you why your logic here is so insanely broken.

"That shows that wingman is not supposed to fight for long range" And it absolutely is not suited for long range fights. Hence if you can land those INSANELY HARD SHOTS then you deserve to get that damage.

"You cannot say that since sniper rifles are hard to fight in close combats, then we should increase the damage when someone lands a headshot within several metres" And I do not for the simple reason that if it hurts far away, then it hurts close up as well. The right logic to use here however, since you are wanting a damage fall off on the wingman on long ranges, would be to give snipers a "damage add on" for hitting a target that is closer than "far away".

"Hence, wingman should have less ability to fight long range" Again. It DOES have significantly less ability to fight long range fights compared to most other guns (R99, R301, Hemlok, Kraber, Longbow, G7, Tripple-Take, Charge Rifle, Sentinel)

"And we should not compensate them with no damage reduction on long range." Why? I do not understand why? Guns have differences and the Wingman is not the only gun with no damage fall off. Also, it's not a compensation it is a feature. Some guns shoots faster, others slower and packs more of a punch, differnt guns has different magazine sizes, projectile speeds, different spray patterns etc. I have absolutely no problem with no damage falloff on wingman knowing how hard it is to snipe with the thing. If I get hit by one while moving I know it is just a lucky shot most of the time and so it doesn't bother me. If I get hit while standing still, well, then I deserve that headshot because my dumb behind knows better than to be a sitting duck target practice.

"The damage falloff system prevents player to deal so much damage from a long distance, it should be applied to all guns in the game (except sniper rifles as it is their only function to hit targets from long distance.)." No, no no no no no NO! If anything, the snipers here would need the damage falloff because they are the guns that are easiest to hit with and packs the most damage per bullet. It would be god knows how much easier to make that 123 damage headshot with a Tripple-Take on long range (did that earlier today actually, 2 tapped some guy far far faaar away) then it is to make that 100 damage headshot with a wingman. The farther away the target is the harder it is to hit with any gun. Snipers included. Should be self explanatory.. That other games have decided to have damage falloff, I don't give a flying eff about it, this game is its own game. You might be used to damage fall off where you come from, where I come from I am used to 1 tap with a AWP or 1-2 taps in the head with M4A1/AK47's (Counter-Strike).
This however is not CS and therefore I don't want CS's philosophies anywhere near this game.

"The last question, why re-45 or mozambique. As AS and LMG is capable for long-ranged battle, so it is useless to type as an example. The actual meaning of these examples is they all having a tough time to fight in long-ranged combat, but only wingman does not receive a damage falloff for all pistols and SMGs." Those guns have a tough time fighting in even close ranged combat. They are in such a low tier of their own that literally no one would complain or give a crap if they were removed from the game permanently. In the light of that your using those guns as an example, I am gonna pretend that never happened. Also, P2020 has no damage falloff and neither does Alternator (like I said, not all guns have damage falloff. I don't know where you have that from)

SolitaryMassacr

5 years ago

@HLNorsemane You keep saying "Wingman is hard to snipe with" but you are wrong.

Think about it - it ISN'T ALL JUST SCOPES. It is strafe speed, recoil, bullet damage, bullet speed, reload speed etc.

The wingman does not have ADS slow down, so if a wingman and an AR or Sniper hit it off - the sniper and AR have immense slow down speeds (AR 50%, Sniper 34% - These are how much you have, not how much gets removed) Wingman and all pistols have 100% ads movement speed. So now that a wingman user can strafe back and forth without penalty, he becomes MUCH harder to hit when the sniper/ar user can't move that fast. The scope does not always help - I run all my sniper rifles with a 2x-4x scope because it is EASIER. I hate the sniper scopes - it honestly makes it harder. Therefore, scopes alone is not a good enough argument about "wingman is harder to snipe with".

I am not even finished here either. If you know anything about physics, you know F=ma. Force is equal to the mass of the object multiplied by the acceleration of the object. A pistol bullet is MUCH smaller than a sniper bullet. It is also traveling MUCH slower than a sniper bullet. When both bullets travel over great distances, you have things like gravity and friction slowing them down. The wingman bullet already has a smaller force leaving the barrel of the gun - this bullet will have a MUCH smaller force when landing on its target far away. Not only that - it will have MUCH higher bullet drop distance. However, I see NONE of that in this game. So to say that snipers should have damage fall off.. just where are you getting that from? its all physics man. And this game has physics engines, so lets stick with physics.

Again, I have more. You say snipers pack the most damage per bullet, yes because they are bigger bullets and travel faster.

I present all my points due to the fact this game is a battle royal. It is bad enough the fights can be heard from across the map. If this was a die-spawn-die-spawn type of game, I wouldn't really care.

But when I have a G7 and they have a wingman, I SHOULD have the upper hand but I do not because of the reasons mentioned.

This gun can be easily fixed too -
- Decrease bullet speed
- Decrease bullet drop off. Bullets will drop at much shorter distances
- Add damage fall off
- Reduce fire rate
- Add recoil

I mean, it needs some work and this whole "LeTs JuSt ReDuCe ThE mAgAzInE sIzE" is getting old. Its like that is the only way EA knows how to nerf any gun.

InsolentLizard
5 years ago
@SolitaryMassacreBig yawn.. All I gotta say to you. This whole response is short sighted. Here is why.

"You keep saying "Wingman is hard to snipe with" but you are wrong." Nope, personal experience, but more importantly, HOURS ON HOURS of watching pro Apex players streaming tells me I am not wrong. There is so much footage out there proving that wingman isn't something you just pick up and dominate with. Watch a game of a streamer playing against other predators and count how many shots they hit compared to how many shots are fired. I did so with a random vid of first NRG_Aceu and then TSM's Albralelie. Both players had a hit percentage of less than 30%. Explain that if the wingman is so freaking easy to use and aim with. Additionally, in both of those vids, both players and their squads ultimately did not win, and Aceu's squad all had wingmen and actually lost to a squad that didn't use the wingman. That in itself should tell you all you need to know.

Now that we established the above, so what if wingman does not have ads slowdown? Guess what, wingman is actually not that accurate while you move (less than 30% hit rate on 2 of the best players in the world, remember?), and here's more, players have TWO guns on em so that they can carry another weapon more suitable for close to mid range combat. Try hip firing a hemmie, they are actually more accurate than wingman and a VERY good counter cause they are more forgiving. You hit 2 out of 3 bullets in a burts, that is 44 damage body shots, 1 less than the wingman. Hit all 3 and that's 66. And you can move at 100% speed, weeeee. I am gonna stress this once more, I kill far more more wingman users than wingman users kill me, so if wingman is such a overly dominant weapon, how the heck can this occur? Oh I know, BECAUSE THE WINGMAN ISN'T OP!!!! Ok, next..

"I am not even finished here either. If you know anything about physics, you know F=ma." I can't even.. You bringing up real world rules into a discussion about a FICTIONAL WORLD only makes you appear like an idiot to me. Word of advice, never do that again. Like ever.

"You say snipers pack the most damage per bullet, yes because they are bigger bullets and travel faster." No, it's because of the rules that the devs made for firing those sniper type guns.. Fictional world bro, custom rules, even the time you gotta wait before you can take your next shot, as well as the time it takes to reload a gun.

"I present all my points due to the fact this game is a battle royal." Did you even put ANY thought into that line? Battle Royale just means the point is to be the "last man/woman/squad standing". The "weapons" in this game coulda been throwing spears, thrown rocks, sling shots, shooting each others with pillow cannons, playable characters being aliens vomiting toxic bunnies on each others. There aren't any rules that a Battle Royale has to follow other then it being about people duking things out on a battleground in whatever way the devs sees fit until only 1 man/woman or squad remains standing.

"But when I have a G7 and they have a wingman, I SHOULD have the upper hand but I do not because of the reasons mentioned." Again, flawed. If you got rekt by a wingman user when having a G7 and being at a range then it's not the G7 that cause you to lose.. It was YOU. YOU either had terrible aim or a terrible positioning or moved in incredibly predictable ways. So try to work on that instead of implying that it has to be the wingman that made you lose.. No matter what you believe, it is the player and the players skill that makes the gun. The gun does not magically improve a players awareness, a players ability to move fast, a players ability to position in ways giving him/her an advantage, a players aim precision, a players ability to think fast or even a players reaction time.

Wingman is fine.
Xx__Miku831__xX
5 years ago
@InsolentLizard You mean the video in #12? Please, of course they will lose as there are many disadvantages that wingman cannot help them win (even acau can't win as the opponent team is not idiots). As I said, if
wingman helps them win in that situation, it is not OP but it breaks the game.

Despite that this game is in a fictional world, at least the REMAINING part should follow the physics if SOME OF THE PARTS ARE FOLLOWING THE PHYSICS. The remaining part isn't meaning the whole other parts of the game. Lets take the damage falloff range as an example, even snipers has its headshot falloff range of 500m (if I remember it right), but wingman has infinite range, means that even the bullet travels 500m, snipers can only deal bodyshot damage while wingman can still land a headshot damage on people. I can't explain this and I hope someone can explain this to me.

You said hip-fire of helmok can deal similar damage to people in mid-range. I really doubt about the accuracy of hip-fire when fighting in a mid-range. Can you send something to proof that helmok can deal similar damage in the real mid-range fight?

Last but not least, you said that it is his fault for him to lose a wingman while using G7. He might have his own fault of his movement or something etc, but the problem of wingman is that it can still have a good rate to win when fighting ARs in mid-range. I can't imagine how you can win this fight by using RE-45 or P2020, even he has a terrible aim or movement, and the fact that you should mind your bullet consumption. Surely it takes some skill to play, but there is less people (I can't say none) who can make P2020 or the mozabique good that able to fight with ARs in mid-fight, as pistols are not supposed to fight in mid-long range. But the unlimited headshot range of wingman makes it capable to fight, which is the problem I am talking about.
xx_Dante2k_xx
5 years ago
@Xx__Miku831__xX Its no different than the majority of people running the R99.
At least with the Wingman your shots have to be on point and if you miss you get dropped, unlike the R99 where you can spray strafe reload and spray again. I dont have a problem when I'm dropped by the Wingman as I was outplayed unlike the 99.
Xx__Miku831__xX
5 years ago
@xx_Dante2k_xx But I doubt that all other guns can do the same thing too (shoot and strafe). As R99 is a SMG, it has its advantage of close range battle. I have suggested a nerf for R99 in the middle of the post if you guys really want to nerf it. Anyway, this post focus on whether wingman should be nerfed and how to nerf, not the R99. So it is better for you to make a new thread name like : Nerf R99 quick. Something like that.
xx_Dante2k_xx
5 years ago
@Xx__Miku831__xX I know I was just saying that the Wingman is a high risk high reward weapon.

No point in an R99 thread. People drool all over the thing on here and you cant say anything bad about their precious little gun so no, waste of time making a thread.
Xx__Miku831__xX
5 years ago
@xx_Dante2k_xx Wingman is not as high risk as you think.

When you are poking from the mid-long range with other team, both of the teams have a smaller chance to get downed by someone at that distance (or at least they need more time to push your team that you should be able to revive them, but it rarely happens to really down a people at long range except someone is using kraber). Wingman can use as AR as they can poke 100% damage at that distance, and it uses only 1 bullet per 45 damage. Surely you guys will say that AR can deal more damage at that distance, but the problem is that you use more bullets than wingman in most situation to deal same amount of damage (G7 only deals 30 per shot, sniper bullets also uses more as it can only stack 16 bullets in one stack), and actually wingman can also output similar amount of damage in any period of time. Hence, both ARs and wingman share the same risk, but wingman has a higher reward, and this is one of the problems that I have mentioned in the thread.

*You are also wasting time here as this post is not talking about the R99. Even you think that it is wasting time, I think it is better for you to make a new thread.