Gibraltar
I just wana say that its utter disgusting that gibraltar can have 2 shields. Thats just as good as having to go up against a hacker. And it needs to be fixed. And another thing my badges "apex predat...
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@NNeil6991 Slow? Dude all legends hve the same speeds beside from passive abilities like octane and bloodhound so thats BS. And i stand by my opinion that he cant have 2 shields to shoot thru
He may have the same movement speed, but his size makes him slower in practice. This is because it takes longer for him to peek corners as he has to move further to hide his large body. He also has to move slow in order to use his personal shield, so yes, he is actually the slowest legend overall. Him not getting stunned by bullets helps a bit though.
It is really easy for an above average player to get 120 wins with any legend, even in ranked play, especially on console where there are mainly low skilled casual gamers. Having a keyboard and mouse on console helps, but still most people play with low frame rates and low TV\monitor refresh rates with a lot of delay. Playing mostly against weak enemies prevents you from getting quality practice too.
Among high skilled players Gibraltar is practically a big joke (people with the 20 kill and 3000-4000 dmg badges), but I can see how he feels OP in low skilled matches as he can take more damage and destroy people who don't know how to move away from his ultimate. There is no professional gamer who Gibraltar is best for, even if he fits their play style. He is total crap at that level.
He is a bit tricky to balance across all skill levels and across platforms, but players will improve as the game ages so I believe they should always balance legends for the higher skill levels. Skilled PC players always aim at the head so his personal shield is totally useless in high skilled match-ups. My suggestion is to make his personal shield take 100 dmg and cover his whole frontal body, from head to toe. This way he will work the same on both PC and Console and he can actually play his role, being a tank, without dying immediately when shot upon by being a huge wall.
If you think Gibraltar is OP, you are not a skilled player. That's fine though, just try and improve and you'll see he's underwhelming soon enough.
- @ZeptikkHue Caustic is just as large why doesnt he have an extra shield too then?
- @ZeptikkHue And i never said i am skilled idiot
@hfdfghytb wrote:
@ZeptikkHueAnd i never said i am skilled idiotI don't think calling people idiots will help your case. 🙂
I would suggest not coming up with balance fixes if you don't consider yourself skilled though. Learn the game first, then come up with suggestions for balancing the game. Otherwise you are just proposing seemingly random stuff.
Caustic is not as large (40% smaller hit box if I remember correctly, which is a big difference) and he has traps and gas bomb which are pretty useful compared to Gibraltars abilities.
As I said, there is nothing wrong with not being skilled. I just wanted to explain that when you learn the game properly he will seem underwhelming soon enough. And yes, I know he got buffed and already mentioned his buffs in my post. Oh, and I don't play Gibraltar much so I don't know what you mean with abusing. I've not come across any abuses except map-abuses and heal-abuses in this game yet, and I've probably played 1000 hours or so.
Have a good one.
- @ZeptikkHue and im on console so aimjg for the head isnt that easy when hes hiding behind 2 shields and i only have level 1 shields. Youre prolly one of those clowns using and abusing that feature.
- @ZeptikkHue And apparently he got buffed....gtfo this forum yoh dunno shi "buddy"
@ZeptikkHueA lot of what you're saying simply isn't true... He's not significantly wider than Pathfinder for instance in the context of peeking corners - in terms of a visual queue if not hitbox he's probably narrower than Wattson because of her stupid shoulder pylons. He has to move slower to ADS? So does everyone?
If I paraphrased what you've said to try and communicate to you how it reads : "He moves the same speed but he's actually slower". You're really trying to stretch the meaning of the word slow here mate.
There are less than 200 people in the world who have 140+ S2 wins. The guy I'm talking about isn't an above average player, he's good and he's won most of his games ranked and unranked with the character you're saying is a joke against people using M&K while he's using a controller. He plays xbox and PC (like the majority of eager, higher end console players). Both he and I have 20 bomb and 4k badges on our mains (His being Gibraltar :P). This isn't a brag, but I'm trying to speak your language to make the point that as far as statistical credentials go I know that we're not speaking from a position of total ignorance when we say that Gibraltar isn't redundant. Gamers, especially PC-exclusive gamers, often like to reduce things like this to binary "trash/OP" categories, and it's a way of looking at things that dominates all discussions on gaming media. It doesn't mean it's correct. Modes of thought that are barren of any nuance rarely are.
If Shroud or someone else of that ilk turned around tomorrow and started playing Gib and getting a bit creative with his tactical, he would become meta in 5 minutes without anything having changed in the game to make it so.
My gib maining buddy is currently in the top tier of players as far as statistics (which I grant you are only a starting point) will go to provide evidence for. If Gibraltar was as bad as you're saying : this would be impossible. He simply would not survive in ranked games and we wouldn't have him playing a deadweight legend on our teams :S
I will concede that if a character isn't being used at the ABSOLUTE top level of e-sports then there are probably disadvantages innate to the character that can't be overcome by any amount of skill. Imbalance. I will qualify that however by saying that these disadvantages are very often so microscopic that to regular players, nomatter how good - they barely have any impact.
For players like you and me - there are so many other things that factor so much more into whether we do well or not than the small disadvantages that someone playing games in competitions for a living would make a lot of noise about. A lot of very good players who are not professional competition players (i.e paid/paying their mortgage by gaming) love to side with the best in the business and affect the same sort of contempt for 'trash tier' legends etc, but in reality even most of the people in AP aren't playing at e-sports level. They're just good players and they'd do fine with Gibraltar if they played to his strengths and tried to mitigate his vulnerabilities. I say this because I play with someone who does it infront of me.
Trying to be pragmatic for a second - GOOD players will go for headshots and land them. Most players might go for headshots and miss a lot of them. Gibraltar's shield extending to his head AND being buffed would just be ridiculously OP. He would undoubtedly see use by the pr0s then, but the cost to the overall game would be more elements of glaring imbalance when the goal should be to eliminate it.
If they implemented your suggestion : for the OVERWHELMING majority of players - Gibraltar would be OP, without the change having increased the skill ceiling of the game. If keeping him how he is means that he's used more at lower level games and less at higher level games, then that in and of itself is a useful thing to have in a game where the difference between bronze and AP league is so vast.
Balancing these games is beyond tricky to start with so I can't understand at all why they've made characters different sizes. It provides absolutely no positive aspect to the game, at all. It's something they've tried to counter-balance (instead of fix) and bungled, and continue to bungle because you can't undo a knot by pulling it tighter. I wish you and I weren't even in a position where this conversation could happen. I wish we all had characters that looked like the red Crash Test Dummy model from the training mode 😛Something I didn't say before but I've been thinking is:
Gibraltar's HEAD is the same size as anyone's head, more or less. So his head isn't a bigger target, and the bigger part of him that is a wider target is covered by a shield, which takes 15% less damage from shots from everyone. His head also takes 15% less damage. So with a Gibraltar pr0 and another pr0 stood aiming at each others heads - one has to hit 15% more damage than the other to get the kill.
I'm not arguing that he is OP - but saying he's absolutely useless just isn't true.
What I am saying is all correct:
https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/aulrb6/apex_legends_visual_hitboxes_all_characters/
1. Check image at link above and % numbers calculated from square cm per model. Pathfinder and Wattson have large profiles from some angles for some parts of their body, Gibraltar is huge over all.
2. Gibraltar is slow at peeking and hiding, this makes him slower at those movements although his physical movement speed is the same. I don't really care how you define speed. Reality is he needs to spend more time completing these tasks compared to other legends, and that is my main point.
3. Legends in Apex Legends does not impact your performance in game by much. When I say Gibraltar is a joke, I do not mean he makes a great player into a bad player. I'm saying there are basically no benefits to using him compared to the others. He will make a good player a bit worse than if that player spent his time getting good with a different legend, that's all.
4. His head is not THAT large compared to some of the other legends, but to get his shield out you HAVE to ADS for quite a while before it activates. This is what I meant with him being slow in ADS. With other legends you can go in and out of ADS at will with no comparable penalty.
5. 15% is only for base health, it does not work on body armor\shields. So with body armor level 3 that is 7.5%. Even 15% is nothing compared to his large hit box (twice the size of Lifeline!), which is why fixing his shield would balance him.
6. I already proposed how to fix him for high skilled games, but I agree with you it will be a problem if he is unbalanced for lower ranked players. I do however think that would be a temporary problem as the player base will improve with time.
7. I'm one of those who really like that the legends have different sizes. I think that's a cool game mechanic to make each of them unique, with other characteristics and abilities balancing out the differences in size. If they make Gibraltar's personal shield better, let Mirage stack up 2 decoys and increase Bloodhounds Eye of the Allfather duration to 2-3 seconds I think the game would be pretty perfectly balanced. 🙂
- @ZeptikkHue Only got time for a quick reply mate, but cheers for the respectful response. - That graphic you posted doesn't seem to take into account the fact that a lot of what is on Gibraltar's model can't be shot. The huge things on his shoulders, part of his back and some other small areas can't actually take hits, they're present on the model but not accounted for in the hitbox.
Will reply in full a bit later but just wanted to say it's great to have a disagreement that doesn't end in a massive schlongwaving competition and personal attacks.
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