Knockdowns and damage give RP in ranked

@Ironflower196 There's a few things to consider if you're wanting to get them to change or improve the current system that aren't a priority to you or me (the users) and/or would go against the improvements we feel should be added.

Player engagement - With the introduction of rank splits keeping players to carry on grinding or to return for the second half of the season. Anything that effects this negatively would be turned away. One of my issues is predator being determined by time played now as some of us have full time jobs and family that can't play x amounts of hours everyday. Skill should be the determining factor in the highest brackets of ranked, not time played where kids, unemployed or those that play games for a living (streamers) have a much higher chance of maintaining pred.

Increasing the amount of kills for RP - Not only would this bring you to your respective rank faster but also potentially being detrimental to what i mention above as you would have no need to keep playing once you plateau. It would also increase the speed of matches with kills being a priority over placement also being a negative multiplier for player engagement. This would lead to more inconsistency between matches where fights are increased early on (fighting less equipped teams for easier RP early game) but leaving 5 teams after the first ring leading to dull moments throughout the rest of the matches when they want the action evenly spread out.

The very late changes we saw for this seasons ranked also reflect this.

Servers and connection - With the only choice we currently have being the lobbies data center that you connect to but the algorithm puts you in a different regions server anyway (or sub optimal server providers) to either accommodate SBMM, reduce que times and other factors with people potentially from a different continent in your matches effecting gameplay. This inconsistency is what killed ranked PC with many ''pro'' players leaving Apex quite early on. This is without mentioning the poor netcode, server tickrate, bug, exploits, prioritising bad connection clients and a whole host of other problems with the current competitive mode and Apex in general.

Because of these things and many, many more.. They'll likely never change ranked into something that i would consider seriously investing my time and effort into again. This is from someone who kept pushing hard for a ranked mode during season 1 on AHQ, achieved pred in season 2 (series 1), didn't play much season 3 ranked because of dashboarding/alt f4 exploit and lost interest while watching it slowly degenerate with very minor changes into what we have today.

Apex is and always will be just a casual cash cow game so treat it like such. 

Edit: Typos with some probably left as last night was a late one. Cheers! 🍺

@E9ine_ACNah bro if you're consistently knocking 2 of the 3 enemies and your team is so incompetent that they can't even knock one guy and he ends up killing you, that is unbearably frustrating. If you disagree because you think rewarding damage and knockdowns would make the ranks less accurate, it wouldn't, because with everyone benefiting from it, it would balance it out. To be honest I think it's absurd that damage isn't rewarded in any way. With higher buy-in costs for higher ranks, those kills that your teammates are stealing can cause you to lose RP very easily. Ranks would actually be much more accurate because heavy hitters who pull more than their own weight would actually be getting the RP that they deserve, not getting shafted because someone is hammerpoint stealing their kills or unable to handle killing their own guy. Like I said, if they limit the damage RP bonus for a single enemy, then range camping would not be a viable way to cheese RP, and if they increase the rank ceiling accordingly, then it would be much better than it is now.

     Thirsting takes a solid few seconds unless you're right next to them with a shotgun or SMG, also greatly depending on their knockdown shield level if you're more than 10m away from them, then you have to reload and shield swap, potentially still having less health, and a lower level shield if the guy you killed had a lower level shield, and like I said you can't shield swap at any range and can't pop a battery with how quickly and safely all of those legends that I listed can push you, so trying to finishing kills is often more likely to get you killed by the guy your incompetent teammates failed to knock. Meanwhile they're getting way more RP than you are for doing 500 damage with a hammerpointed mozambique, while you have 3k damage and are cracking everyone's shields. It's stupid.

     There's no good reason that anyone here has given me not to change it, so long as they implement the range restrictions and max damage per enemy restrictions (probably around twice their shield and health as it's rare you get to pop 2 Phoenix kits, or 2 shield batteries and 2 medkits before a fight ends). Bottom line is that if you are leaving teammates in the dust with your damage and they're still getting much more RP than you, just for stealing your kills, (it wouldn't feel like stealing if damage was rewarded) something is definitely wrong with the RP distribution.

(deleted)

@kellanammann Having a range limit wouldn't be fair on the teammate who is covering with a sniper. He cracks 2 or 3 telling you to push and you squad wipe but he gets no RP? Granted this is alleviated slightly with assists but sometimes having that cover for area denial might not get a knock in time depending on situation or range of engagement. Or there is no limit and you just spam charge rifle until damage is done per person and move on. Sniper loadout will, not exclusively but on average across most skill brackets, do more damage throughout the match. Also, this damage farming meta wouldn't be good for ranked, at all.

For all the reasons i specified in my previous post and many more i could go into, it is casual game. It can be labelled a competitive (e-sports) game as we do have ALGS with e sport teams that compete but on the whole and throughout the industry it's a bit of a joke in that respect. I wish that wasn't the case but it's a direction that Respawn haven't taken seriously and most who are involved in that scene will tell you the same. Being played on RNG with server connection because you can only connect to lobby data center is a big problem for a truly competitive game, let alone general stability and the rest of the problems we face.

I absolutely agree with you though, i think we shouldn't have a cap on kills at all. I think it's ridiculous that if you land contested and take that team out and get some more within a few minutes you logically have to wait it out till near the end of the round for placement RP. It's boring, encourages ratting and doesn't reward those that would be able to climb faster. If you destroy half the lobby you should be climbing much faster. I'm just covering why it's not changed much because they want to draw it out both across the match and your engagement in the season.

@apostolateofDOOM Alright so here's something I didn't realize until I googled it, you do get the same amount of RP for assists as you do for kills, as you should, so that's good. I also figured out a solution to your problem of effective snipers that stick with teammates but hang back a bit not being rewarded, and also your stereotypical Octane who runs off and dies by himself trying to get into senseless fights: They could just make it so that damage is only rewarded if you're doing damage to the same enemy team(s) as your teammates instead of the range limiter. This will encourage teams to stick together and still achieve the goal of the person doing the most damage climbing ranks faster. That sniper you're talking about that's really the hero of that squad wipe would be rewarded for the damage that he did, not just assists. That's my point. Sniping is insanely risky in this game anyway. As soon as you shoot the whole freakin lobby hears you and rolls up to 3rd party you. There are also way more close and mid range engagements in this game than long range. Because of map design and legend mobility, the vast majority of engagements start out at close range, and long-mid range engagements quickly become mid-close range engagements, as there's plenty of cover all over every map to push with or retreat to, which becomes even easier and safer if you're with an Octane or Pathfinder, Wraith or Bangalore, which almost every squad is, and people want to be near enemies they knock to thirst and shield swap so snipers with long range optics are at a direct disadvantage and as rare as unicorns already.

     I wouldn't even care if they don't reward knockdowns and I'm willing to recede that idea, because I get that you have to wipe the squad for it to really mean anything. My main argument is that damage simply needs to be rewarded to seperate the kids doing 20 damage to someone and the guy who dealt 500 damage to the whole team, because obviously there's a difference in their skill and it should be acknowledged, not rewarded equally. There's also the massive issue of the kids that just don't stick with their team and put you at a huge disadvantage when they run off and die by themselves. If you got rewarded for damage that you're doing to the same enemies as your teammates, there would be way less of that.

     You also seem to be underestimating the natural aggression in this game. Knockdowns get pushed 90% of the time because you want to wipe the squad while they're at a number/HP disadvantage, and so many legends are designed for pushing. Hell, there's an octane on practically every team I play with.

     Casual is casual, ranked is competitive. Your reasons just don't bear any significance to this particular issue. I have relatively cheap internet and I never lag in this game. Ever. I also only disconnect from about 1 out of every 300+ games I play. If you lag and disconnect alot, then work harder to afford better internet speeds. That's a you problem not an Apex problem.

     If they want to have more fights happening early-on, they would add more RP for kills, assists, knockdowns and/or damage, as that would add a greater incentive to drop, loot up quickly and get into a fight right away. This would also make later circles less populated by octanes ditching their teammates and teams that hid all game for their placement bonuses, and reduce the number of squads mid game that come to easily 3rd party you. I simply want to make the ranks more accurate and I'm entirely positive that this would do it.

@kellanammann I think you misunderstand what i'm saying or don't understand how things work on several things so i'll break them down. I don't say this in a condescending way at all but so i can better understand your points and perhaps educate you on some things just i have been taught and still learning.

If i get anything wrong then anyone feel free to correct me as i'm honestly not the most tech savy when it comes to networking matters.

This has absolutely nothing to do with my/your internet or hardware which will potentially make the problem worse like these kids trying to play on their wifi running the bare min specs...I'm not talking about that. My computers a i9 9900k, 32gb ram, rtx 3080 on a 144hz monitor with the best internet available in my area. I've spoke to my ISP several times, altered settings, done a utrace and opened ports for the game and set everything on low and performance to get the very best i can out my rig but this IS an Apex issue as many others can verify due to the apparent limitations of the game. Although i personally find that's a bad excuse for not wanting to invest more cash as it's not a collection event they'll get a return from. Not that they don't make enough with hundred plus buck heirlooms but anyway..

When you select the data center when the game loads, this is done through Multiplays Hybrid Cloud that can put you into different servers and by different providers such as Google Cloud and AWS servers. The performance readout you get in on the top right of your screen ingame if you have it selected that's to the lobby (data center) not to the actual match (server) itself. The data center can still change from the ones you have selected for SBMM, reducing que times and other things.

Some of these are notoriously slow and not up to the task even with the limitations already in place ie 20tick servers, poor netcode, lag compensation in the games simulation (giving players with worse connection client priority) ect..What makes this worse is every time you or i join a new game it could be with a different one and also potentially under load effecting performance. This is what i meant by RNG with servers and why professional players have a grievance when it comes to ranked because stutter, slow mo, hitreg and whatever else when it cost you RP is infuriating. Unless we get a direct server selector or a lot more dedicated servers i doubt this will change and why it's been ignored up till now.

The reason i brought this up previously was to say although it's a ''competitive mode'' for Apex it's not something they take seriously so you shouldn't too.

Back to the points of discussion because this is going off topic. RP for damage..

Those better players will overtime pretty consistently be downing and finishing more than those that get a lucky kill or assist here and there. With the recent changes to KC and the already open space in WE and Olympus there is enough places with kill zones you can camp with a charge rifle and just farm damage easily.  No skill required.  The pace of engagements will be slowed if they do any more to encourage that. They have already made sniper towers and removed a lot of cover from previous seasons and i don't think it would be healthy for the game to have another COD style snipe from other side of map as a go to playstyle for competitive or even ranked play. Movement in Apex is what makes it unique to other BRs.

Also, Respawn DON'T want you to have more RP for kills, assists, damage or anything else as that would put you in your respective rank faster, increase the action early game while having more lulls throughout the match which doesn't bode well for streaming and competitions. They want to draw it out (both the match and your time in ranked) as much as possible.

I don't like it but that's the way they're doing it.

I'll apologise in advance for repeating anything said previously but your reply didn't seem to focus on some of the things that you would need to or were dismissed that i mentioned. I'm just explaining that if you actually wanted the discussion to lead to change then these are some of the things you would need to take into consideration and not that they were my view or preference, which i hopefully laid out clearer and also the things that Respawn are prioritising, or in other cases not.

@apostolateofDOOM Most of that has nothing to do with rewarding RP for damage bro you are getting way off track. I understand your frustrations with data centers but I don't see what any of that has to do with this particular problem. What I'm gathering of your thoughts on the topic of RP for damage is that "Respawn doesn't care enough to make ranked more accurate so they can cater to sweaty streamers who can eat 3rd parties for breakfast because it's more interesting to watch them do 5k damage with an SMG and a shotgun". Well they should. There are more players that want to climb ranks than the people already at the top and right now it's just not possible without convincing players in higher ranks to take you on as a charity case. I'm just upset because my teammates aren't pulling their weight and it's causing my rank to suffer. It just seems like you're here complaining about an entirely seperate issue.

     Like I said before, people camping open areas and kill zones with snipers wouldn't be a legitimate method of farming damage RP, because there would be a limit to how much damage per enemy is rewarded with RP, so very few people would do it. You might get a few kills and some damage here and there but with how loud snipers are in this game you're practically guaranteed to get 3rd, 4th 5th partied and so on, virtually guaranteeing that you're throwing away any significant chance at a placement bonus, and the win which obviously, the overwhelming majority of players are going for. To get multiple teams to come fight you, you would have to be pretty close to the middle of the map, and that's even more areas around you that thirsty Octanes and Pathfinders are gonna come 3rd party you after hearing your sniper explode from a mile away. Once they catch you with your sniper out at point blank with their shotgun and SMG you're screwed anyway. This would ONLY reward the hardest hitter in the engagement more than the weak teammates that are doing barely any damage and getting the same amount of RP for assists and easy kill-steals.

     As for the lulls in the mid game, if they'd just reduce the audibility range of gunshots and explosions that would fix that as well as greatly reduce 3rd partying. Screw the argument of "it's a gun or explosion, it's supposed to be loud". It negatively impacts the game and I'd much rather have less 3rd partying than "in real life gun go bang and bomb go boom". Apex isn't anywhere near realistic.

     People enjoy playing Octane and Pathfinder and using SMGs and shotguns (so that they're comfortable if they get caught at close range which is practically inevitable) waaayyyyy too much to throw insta-rushing CQB out the window just to snipe and let the whole entire map know where they're at. It's like ringing a 3rd party church bell, and it's why I and many others never snipe. People are still going to play the way they do now, because this is a fast-paced game where you play to win. As Pathfinder says, "Losing isn't fun. That's why I don't do it."

I'd like to continue this conversation but try to stay on-topic, man. You're losing me.

@kellanammann Usually i do this on PC but on my phone remembering snippets while distracted and steaming.. After rereading previous posts i admit i went on a rant. Was a good weekend though. 🥳

I'm hanging today so i'll be brief.. Damage on it's own could still be farmed easily. It would be way to easy to get a few pot shots from high ground and bail to do the same again with the map changes. Reduce gunshot sounds to reduce third parties is something that's been suggested before and a good idea. Having RP distributed to your team calculated by damage done to those finished could also work but i don't know how they would work that with 3rd party kills and assists..

I'll come back to this thread tomorrow when i recovered.

@kellanammann 

Seems to be that your issue is more stupid and unskilled random teammates rather than the RP system, which I totally agree on =) Thats why I very rarely put myself in that hell on earth that playing with randoms in ranked really is. Anyhow, if they started to give out RPs for just knocks and damage, they would have to adjust the system so that it overall didnt reward MORE total RP, just distributed them differently based on another system and that is probably a very hard nut to crack.

So even if I see your point (and your frustration), I stand by my previous objections;

1) This would even further make the "hold position with mid-to-long range weapons without pushing"-meta even stronger, which already is the case, starting in Platinum. 

2) In the long run, the big damage dealers will get more kills thus more RPs that the small damage dealers.