Forum Discussion

JiboTV

7 years ago

Lets Talk About 'Skill-Based Matchmaking'?

INTRODUCTION He...

gameplay discussion

JiboTV

6 years ago

@ilya_lizard wrote:
So, it's a thread to share some player experience and thoughts about skill-based matchmaking.
Well, I don't like the SBMM. I LOVE it. I hope the EA and Respawn would let it be as it is. It's great.
See, I'm playing APEX almost from the day one. I've played solo, I've played with friends. It was a first season, no SBMM, no ranked - only the random lobby. And despite I liked the game design, characters, fast pace and titanfall feel of the game (I liked it all so much, I almost immediately paid for a starter pack) the main gaming experience felt like a pure piece of sh#t for me. Very rarely I've had a satisfying game session. I don't even talk about winning the game - I talk about having fun and give a good fight. Almost every game had this point then I've got killed in a couple of seconds by some "above average"(c) player who doesn't miss a single bullet and can absorb a seemingly infinite amount of damage. The learning curve of the game was broken, if not non-existent - what exactly can you learn from being killed in a couple of seconds game after game? I uninstalled the game right after I realized, that I have much more frustration than fun every single game session.
I came back in the second season after the ranked system was implemented. And it was almost good. Much better than before - I still met some "above average"(c) players now and then (I have no slightest idea what they forgot in bronze\silver\lower gold tiers) but I started to have some good and fun fights, and well-earned wins and top places. And I even purchased a battle pass. But - it was ranked. It had the leavers penalty, toxicity, and needed devotion like a catholic marriage. It was nothing like casual gaming for after-work chill. So, after some highly unsuccessful attempts to play in the main "casual" lobby I've uninstalled the game again.
And now it's the third season. I came to the game after I heard about SBMM. And what I can tell? It seems I'm here to stay. I have a great, yet undemanding game evenings. I actually started to have some fun. I like to play with other players of my skill level, I like that I can actually use some tactics without being instantly killed by some diamond-predator-"above average(c)" piece of sh#t. I can only thank Respawn and EA and tell them to leave the SBMM system as it is.

Despite your attitude, I believe this is (In part) an understandable position to hold regarding some parts of SBMM. However, I do think it sacrifices a lot on either end of the ladder and will inevitably punish you as you play more and perform better. I am also unsure how much you've played ranked recently, but I would encourage you to try with the new changes. Tell me how you feel playing it for a bit until you feel you reached your skill ceiling, then play some more and tell me how you feel after that. I think that is the best way for you to get the gist of why and how my perspective is the way it is beyond playing a few games with me in my lobbies haha. I also would discourage you from calling people who perform better than you names, that is toxic behavior for the community.

ilya_lizard

Rising Veteran

6 years ago

@JiboTV wrote:
I also would discourage you from calling people who perform better than you names, that is toxic behavior for the community.

Good point, but on the other hand, when someone happened to me like in "sh#t happens" - it's how I feel =)) Actually, one of the pros of the current SBMM - much less toxicity in public matches. People became somehow much more relaxed.

ilya_lizard
Rising Veteran
6 years ago
I'll post here my reply from another thread:
The problem, as I see it, not in the SBMM as it implemented now, but in how the statistical distribution of player skill works in the Apex legends game combined with gameplay balance itself.
First, let's remind ourselves how do the normal Gaussian distribution looks like:

It's the way it works in the ideal case - "average" is in the big middle, with relatively even distribution of skill and probability of success, and on the sides - the best and the worst cases. The problem is, that in apex legends case the spline can (and probably do) look different:
So in our case, the player base can look like that (cause the Gaussian distribution is not the only one normal distribution possible):
Look on the bright red spline. In this case, your skill moves you into the far right side of distribution in insane hyperbolic progression. Why does it happen? Probably the problem is in the game balance itself. There is a huge difference between skill levels. People who can put headshots and who can't. The long TTK makes it quite impossible to outsmart a good shooter - so the skill variations are very limited and leading you to be a mediocrity or a champion - from the statistical point of view.
And if our player base actually looks like this, there is no possible way the statistical algorithm can make it fair for good and bad players alike - we need some fundamental balance changes that would redistribute skill levels among players.
The question of why the distribution favours new twink accounts remain, but possibly "lifetime" achievements have more impact on the final algorithm than the limited sample of fights - which is understandable from the probability theory's point of view - player definitely can have "unprobable" (in our perception) chain of victories or defeats - the overall statistics still prevails. And the old main accounts have a long story of highly successful fights in the random lobby.
- JiboTV
  6 years ago
  @ilya_lizard wrote:
  I'll post here my reply from another thread:
  The problem, as I see it, not in the SBMM as it implemented now, but in how the statistical distribution of player skill works in the Apex legends game combined with gameplay balance itself.
  First, let's remind ourselves how do the normal Gaussian distribution looks like:
  
  It's the way it works in the ideal case - "average" is in the big middle, with relatively even distribution of skill and probability of success, and on the sides - the best and the worst cases. The problem is, that in apex legends case the spline can (and probably do) look different:
  So in our case, the player base can look like that (cause the Gaussian distribution is not the only one normal distribution possible):
  Look on the bright red spline. In this case, your skill moves you into the far right side of distribution in insane hyperbolic progression. Why does it happen? Probably the problem is in the game balance itself. There is a huge difference between skill levels. People who can put headshots and who can't. The long TTK makes it quite impossible to outsmart a good shooter - so the skill variations are very limited and leading you to be a mediocrity or a champion - from the statistical point of view.
  And if our player base actually looks like this, there is no possible way the statistical algorithm can make it fair for good and bad players alike - we need some fundamental balance changes that would redistribute skill levels among players.
  The question of why the distribution favours new twink accounts remain, but possibly "lifetime" achievements have more impact on the final algorithm than the limited sample of fights - which is understandable from the probability theory's point of view - player definitely can have "unprobable" (in our perception) chain of victories or defeats - the overall statistics still prevails. And the old main accounts have a long story of highly successful fights in the random lobby.
  Sorry again for taking so long to respond to everyone, I figure taking forum time in doses is good. This is an interesting perspective I had only partially considered. I am aware of general distribution theories and have applied some to the problems I perceive as well. I am unsure whether I could go into a deeper discussion on this topic because I have limit data. With the data I do have and the experiences I have collected (Myself and others.), I am still inclined to believe SBMM is the source for at least some of the issues I describe. I think the TTK in relation to the number of bullets in a stock magazine feels fine and not underwhelming or overbearing for players on average with fairness to the ceiling those weapons could reach. I am not sure I understand how your are applying your distribution theories to suggest SBMM may not be the source of some of my issues. I will say I cannot deny that if the skill curve was rounder that SBMM may not be as bad as I perceive it in some areas. That being said, disparity between and within varying skill levels is to be expected and has a larger impact dependent on the averages within each skill level. For perspective, if the average 'predator level' skilled player has a k/d of 1-4, the higher end of that spectrum sits with 4-8, but their overall damage differences on the higher end would likely tend higher in percentage differences when compared to kills.
  I feel like I have been distracted from the points I was making though, it would be appreciated if you would humor me and explain a little more clearly how what you said refers and applies to the points I made in my original post. Trying not to get lost in the sauce here.