Matchmaking is broken!
So I play with two of my friends and we play mostly Pubs. We are gold level players. Never climbed above gold 1. And yet, in pubs, we keep betting annihilated by players with 4k, Master/Predator ...
Forum Discussion
You wanna play like that go right ahead. Don't come posting here when you reach a kdr of 0.5 because of it though.
I didnt change anything. The game USED TO BE FUN. MM IS SCREWING US.
Your're right, having fun is not what it's supposed to do. It's suppose to retain players by making them lose on purpose and throwing them into bot lobbies every now and again.
Can you understand this concept? It's not about math, or player qty or anything else. It's to keep you addicted by turning you into a try hard throwing you a bone every now and again to keep you from leaving.
Please, no one is asking to win every fight. Why is this so hard to understand for you? No one even said that. And if you honestly think becoming pred is gonna make it easier on you than keep playing and see, the game would only become harder as a result - keeping you at your 5% or below. So what incentive is there even to become better? A badge? You'll just be screwed by MM anyway. Ask around. Read the forums more. Some of the top streamers and players have a dkr of between 1-2.
FYI - game deleted /
@Sand_spitterwhy would I post about k/d being 0.5? I mean mine currently is ~0.7 in ranked (don't play much pubs, even less pay attention to those stats).
Look at competitions and competition stats - players with k/d over 1.2 are pretty much top of the top, just read the news that s1mple in the latest tournament went 1.51 in one map but he is know as the GOAT aimer in CS:GO... and you are talking about 2?! I mean if your k/d is 2 in ranked games of your highest level then you better be earning money with Apex.
For most FPS players in ANY FPS game, positive k/d is already a success, basically, you then can call yourself as you made it. Not counting public, ffa and other modes of the game where players don't care, have nothing to lose.
For me FPS games are all about competition, if I win by any means, tactics a better player - I am having a great day. I don't care how bad or well others do, how many kills they have, even less so pointless rewards that by now all games have introduced (mindf#%$ tactics if you have read some books on how human brain and modern marketing work).
I actually like that feeling when you come in, know you will be beaten yet time to time you actually prove that feeling to be wrong. And even more so improve during the process and when the time comes to show off skill in a competitive environment - be it in a local LAN party or minor competition where you don't have any prizes - that's what matters to me in FPS games.
If you want to come into competitive spirit BR game without any training, understanding of game dynamics, ability and willingness to teamwork (like most players in Apex sadly, especially pubs) and just point and kill everyone... well I don't know a game where even a single-player provides such experience... Maybe Apex bot lobbies are more suitable for you and people alike?!
What even is this matchmaking anyways?
- @Midnight9746 if this is from Arenas - those are broken since day 1, I personally didn't even try playing them because I kept getting just random games mostly with people like this one the team vs ex BR diamonds and Masters who somehow never landed on my team.
@EREGDSMaybe I'm being too hard on myself then. I had a kd of 1.5 I think back in season 3 and a win rate of 7-10%. I must be good then. Should've stopped playing and called it good. Ha.
That's before sbmm kicked in for me and placed me in these impossible lobbies. Now a lesser skilled player can have better or similar stats than I do just bc of how things are set up to work this way. You think it fair that the mm, by design, get to decide that for us all hmm?
Not to rain on your parade, but a kd of 0.7 is pretty bad. I would be angry if I was you. I wasn't doing much better this season though, as mine was 0.9 or close to it last time I checked and I'm playing on ~180 ping.
If you enjoy it the way it is that's fine. But do not discount the misery it's causing other people. It's like you just don't care or don't want to accept that what's happening is quite underhanded. Look at the screen shots people are posting here. You really think anyone would complain if they thought they actually had a chance against said player?
What you don't realize is that you could be doing much better if things were random. That's my issue. It's no fun knowing that you're placed into certain lobbies as a way of "fixing" the matches to keep everyone engaged. I believe that in pubs everything should be random by default, or at the very least less aggressive. Ranked is there for playing people of equal skill, having it in both modes is pointless.
But whatever, you seem like one of the few people that like the game the way it is. There's the link you wanted earlier.
https://youtu.be/DyO-WL_L3K8Getting back to your/my points:
- k/d ratio - clearly you have expectations to either be a pro or have a field-day in the game, because that's what 1.5 k/d is and have been in a competitive environment. In "fair" skill-based game your opponent(s) should be pretty much exactly your skill level or about that translates into EACH AND EVERY fight being 50/50, meaning that you will win one and lose one = 1 k/d not 1.5 on average!
The fact that mine is below 1 only says two things about me at least to myself: I am not kill oriented type of guy who will finish their knocks while team is fighting still alive players and sometimes I pay the price for that if we are 3rd partied and the 3rd party eliminates my team and enemy team getting all the kills/me not getting kills for the knocked-down players of the first squad we fought, and in quite a few cases my opponents are just better than me.
Also what it says to me looking at my death/assist stats in particular in Apex = system is just not ideal to use k/d ratio as something to gauge the skill level given you can have a kill just by doing 1 hp damage in this game and we all have had those situations when you have a teammate with say 500 damage and 6 kills while you have 1500 and 5 assists and the dude is bragging how good he is...I mean right. - I already commented on the exception teams which usually are 1-3 per lobby, for me that is ok, I don't care, I still believe that good teamwork can overcome that plus in my experience rarely have situations where I see such teams actually winning, usually, they just push like crazy, yes get a lot of KP and RP but they rarely win games given they just take too many risks probably because they underestimate the competition and power of 3rd party in this game.
- What does "random" mean? If that is something that usually is happening in Gold lobbies at the beginning of the season - that contain all type of players starting from B4 ending with P1... well I rather take current matchmaking and more "fair" lobbies as I feel really bad when I distroy B4-G4 players who are waaaay worse than me, even with my 0.7 k/d :D I just don't have fun, reminds me of the days when only mode was single-player and you played vs bots e.g. in CS go, where you could single-handedly kill 20 enemy team bots alone.
- Forum is the place where A DISCUSSION takes place - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forum <- educate yourself, you are welcome!
- Thanks for sharing the video, comments on that:
- I did not find much of a proof in the material, referenced reddit posts and materials were not shared - can't say is this fact or fiction/authors interpretation of data
- author mentions that game rigs you up with a bad team and better opponents which is in my opinion flawed logic given how then it deals with me if I play with a set party as it can't push some randoms into my team, nor I am getting crazy hard lobbies every time. The only thing I noticed is that indeed if you win a game the next one will be in a very competitive lobby, but that might actually be needed to gauge my skill = if I won lobby my next challenge would be to the next level not remain at the previous one which I will probably win again. Only questionable part here is how hard the next lobby is, is it one step or multiple steps above...
- also author mentions that the game keeps you playing while making a mix of win/lose cases for you, but if that is true and I am say losing games, it means that someone is winning that in turn means that the next game that team should be set up for losing and I for winning = creating a win/lose situation aka 50/50 case aka normal, fair matchmaking. Not sure what is the problem... problem would be only if say X number of players would always be granted an easier lobby so they have crazy win percentage k/d ration etc. while everyone else suffered and were below 1 k/d and 3-5% winrate
So yeah... that's my take on the situation and given we are exchanging views on our personalities I would like to add that you have to learn how to treat other people opinions with respect even when you don't agree with them.
- k/d ratio - clearly you have expectations to either be a pro or have a field-day in the game, because that's what 1.5 k/d is and have been in a competitive environment. In "fair" skill-based game your opponent(s) should be pretty much exactly your skill level or about that translates into EACH AND EVERY fight being 50/50, meaning that you will win one and lose one = 1 k/d not 1.5 on average!
- @EREGDS I didn't mean to be disrespectful to you because that's just the way I am, in fact the I'm quite the opposite. But it gets frustrating when people who do not experience these issues or are unaware of them try to make a case that nothing is wrong and the rest of us are thought to be just a bunch of cry babies. It get's old to explain this thing over and over. Maybe I should just not bother with it anymore. You wouldn't see so many threads on this issue if nothing was wrong though, This started back in s3 if I remember correctly and before that people were happy. There's literally 2-3 of these threads each week. Did you read through the number of comments on that video? Pretty much everyone says the exact same thing, that the game has become too hard. Just remember, games are still a business, so makes sense to maximize it in every way. Maybe you are feeling the effects less when playing in a pre-made squad or because it's your 1st season? I don't know. Try solo some time. Also, I have read the threads and links referred to in the vid, so there's that, but they have since been removed I'm guessing? You don't have to believe it if you don't want to. Either way, be happy that you are happy with how you are being matched, that's pretty much the best scenario you can ever hope for in this game, that's all I can say really.
- @EREGDS Those last ones were from normal battle royal
@Sand_spitter That video... I had a feeling that's what they were doing. I've felt like matchmaking purposly was mismatching because like why would I sometimes get level 10 players in ranked arenas and things like that. Also the pattern it has me in for some reason is: lose, lose, lose, lose, lose, lose x5, win, win, back to losing. Like I can tell when I'm going to win a match due to "SBMM" changing, because almost every single player I come across are absolute bots or noobs and my teammates are actually decent. - @Midnight9746 I mean right? I suspected it before I saw that as well. Go look up EBMM as that fits the description better thinking about it recently, imo. If you really want your mind blown go look up Dynamic Difficulty Adjustment in games. NO proof that it's used here. But it does go to show that nothing is off limits in business.
- @Midnight9746 I have been playing now for 4 days and only once I finished the day (4+h of play usually more than that) with positive total points.
My pattern - 10 loses, 1-3 positive point games, maybe a win here or there.
But to be fair all of those were due to incompetent teammates that were not willing to teamwork or were just not at the skill level to compete, I honestly had maybe 2? Diamond level lobbies during 4 games when in my team I had (useless) season 10 master currently in Platinum 1, but as soon as we lost 1 or 2 games with him lobbies switched back to "normal" with gold players around, and we still lost those maps.
IDK...
I feel like you might see that effect only from Diamond up, where really every mistake or so is being punished, there are more Masters and Preds present...yet I still think that when I get there 50% of the fights will be lost due to bad teamwork from my team's side and very good one from enemies. @Sand_spitter So assuming that video is indeed what Apex is doing (which its quite obvious that it is that), we're being lied to with this message here, as the mismatch of players happens in any mode:
:
@Midnight9746I'm not too sure how ranked works tbh, I only know what I know from other comments I've seen. But I've said in the past that lets say someone starts out in Bronze, how do we know that player won't make it all the way to Pred? (basically pred in disguise if we're only looking at his latest rank). Will he be grouped in lobbies of actual similar skill while in Bronze or will he just stomp those lobbies thereby getting out of Bronze quickly? Otherwise what would be the point of "climbing" the ranks if he's already matched with other Preds in Bronze? That would make him stay there forever basically. Personally I just think he'll be stomping his way through and I think where this "similarly skilled" mechanic kicks in in full bloom is when said player keeps grinding a certain league and basically stagnates there or progresses very slowly along with the rest of the players doing the same. It keeps working if everyone keeps grinding at their skill ceiling basically. I could very well be wrong, but that is my understanding of it.
In essence what I mean by that is I think lobbies start out random and gets increasingly similar in skill the higher you go and as time passes.
- @Sand_spitter My highest rank so far is plat, matches in plat are the same as matches in silver and gold. Except the only difference is the players are level 100-300's, instead of level 10-70's, who are stomping on everyone else.
Also to the video you shared about rigged matchmaking, when responding to another thread, this scene from one of the "Stories from the Outlands" came to mind, which now hits differently: https://youtu.be/5_8WHxyW86o?t=29 I don't know if EA/Respawn was hinting at the rigged matchmaking this way, as I'm pretty sure it was mostly for Crypto's background story, but its possible. - @Midnight9746 I noticed that too and find it quite a coincidence lol
Went to que up for rank today, and saw this message, while reading it, I took a screenshot and a match started up anyways. It was very weird.
100,080 / 24h = 4,170 hours and 37 minutes.... lol what?This message shows up everytime I ready up. Matches are still matchmaking though.
This took me into this kind of match:
They need to change their matchmaking and stop making it hell for solo quers.
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