Re: Caustic is terrible, and the new map shows it

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@donthurtm3 wrote:
You do not have to write two or three answers to each comment. We understand what you want. You want your legend to become even stronger and more OP, otherwise you will not be able to get something done. But it is what it is, caustics gas is too strong and should be weakened.

 

I don't support the use of fallacys to discredit my argument for a buff to Caustic. I asked you why you think he is overpowered, and even gave you evidence, (lowest win rate and kill rate), so why do you think he (or his gas) are overpowered?

(Also I'm not sure why you used "We". This is your unique opinion until otherwise stated by someone else)

For S3 I switched to Caustic from Pathfinder because I wanted as big a change as I could get to keep the game fresh.  About 1k kills and 55 S3 wins so far and I'm loving him.  I don't think he needs a buff other than the ideal but totally not happening "different player model about the size of mirage" and get rid of fortified :P

I think he's unpopular among better players not because he himself isn't good to use but because if you're about padding your stats, you want the characters that enable to you to push as aggressively as possible all the time : this means mobility or faster healing to get into thicker fights/new fights faster. 

I really don't think his gas needs to be buffed or changed, he's in a fairly decent spot imho.  It might be an idea to have it so that when someone shoots the base of your trap to deactivate them, a small cloud appears for 1 or 2 seconds, so that the often lamented issue of a player with a good shot nullifying Caustic isn't as pronounced - but honestly, if your traps are all getting shot out then you're putting them in the wrong place.

[edit] - Re the map, I think it's significantly better for Caustic than Kings Canyon ever was.  There are far more buildings and enclosed spaces.  In HUGE sections of the map you can deny access vertically by trapping ziplines, elevator shafts, stairwells etc.  In most of the buildings you can render a floor effectively a 'safe-ish zone' to med up etc because the gas totally covers the entire floor.  So much comes down to CQB in a lot of this new map in buildings that Caustic has never been more relevent in the hands of a solid player.

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@Anlbrd wrote:

For S3 I switched to Caustic from Pathfinder because I wanted as big a change as I could get to keep the game fresh.  About 1k kills and 55 S3 wins so far and I'm loving him.  I don't think he needs a buff other than the ideal but totally not happening "different player model about the size of mirage" and get rid of fortified :P

I think he's unpopular among better players not because he himself isn't good to use but because if you're about padding your stats, you want the characters that enable to you to push as aggressively as possible all the time : this means mobility or faster healing to get into thicker fights/new fights faster. 

I really don't think his gas needs to be buffed or changed, he's in a fairly decent spot imho.  It might be an idea to have it so that when someone shoots the base of your trap to deactivate them, a small cloud appears for 1 or 2 seconds, so that the often lamented issue of a player with a good shot nullifying Caustic isn't as pronounced - but honestly, if your traps are all getting shot out then you're putting them in the wrong place.

[edit] - Re the map, I think it's significantly better for Caustic than Kings Canyon ever was.  There are far more buildings and enclosed spaces.  In HUGE sections of the map you can deny access vertically by trapping ziplines, elevator shafts, stairwells etc.  In most of the buildings you can render a floor effectively a 'safe-ish zone' to med up etc because the gas totally covers the entire floor.  So much comes down to CQB in a lot of this new map in buildings that Caustic has never been more relevent in the hands of a solid player.

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Bravo. You’re absolutely right. This game is great because it provides rewards to intelligent gameplay for very good players through the use of Legends with much varied play styles. Many of them are counter to the highly aggressive, twitch reflex standard. Caustic is one such Legend and is anything but useless or disadvantaged. Neither in KC, nor WE. 

-To reply to all three of you, whom seem to agree, I've played him from season 1 onward. A lot of people tell me I'm not playing him right, but don't play him half of the time themselves.

-These buff would increase his defensive capabilities so that he can defend against super agressive players

-Caustic should be able to leave his traps anywhere so that he could defend open areas. Right now me and my team have to flee into a building to have Caustic preform most of the time. Even then, the enemy team just stays back. (Counter to traps that can't be shot out because that are in a building)

-They throw grenades and activate traps,then flee untill I can't place anymore, and then they push us (if activated you can run out before Caustic has any chance to get to you)

-Data shows he needs work. Wins and kills are lowest for him.

-Ive already made all the points I can make in previous posts on everything all three of you talked about. He needs these buffs and there is evidence supporting that he needs buffs.

Caustic was better in King's Canyon by far. Trees, bushes, rocks, smaller choke points, smaller buildings, more cover, and intelligence easily acquired from enemies passing through where you've been. Season 3 and the new map brings buildings with 4 floors and several entrances per floor and choke points so large you need to spread all 3 gas traps across the width of them for any possible area denial and that's ALMOST okay, but there's always no cover to hide or obscure those traps in these areas. There were so many slot canyons and narrow passages on the previous map. Areas where you could setup OUTSIDE and have them covered by a decent Caustic. Anyway..

I have 58 wins this season and 3,400 kills total with Caustic.. got Diamond with just him last season.

He has the LOWEST DAMAGE and LOWEST KILLS despite being obsessed with death. (ironic) Also the 4th lowest pick rate at 3.38%. (2 per match)

Means to me he needs some attention. I would suggest..

- Faster trap activation / deploy speeds
- Traps not being activated through CLOSED / INTACT doors. 
- Reduced item or ability usage speed by 25% if recently damaged by gas 

The two most picked champions if caught in gas are also the two with the easiest time ignoring it.. imagine that. (Wraith / Pathfinder)

I'm not opposed to spreading gas or a wider radius to it given the size of the new map and the overall low pick rate of Caustic, it's obvious he needs something done. He's not competitive, he's not dangerous, if anything he's a free kill outdoors and the first guy you'll want to shoot at.

It's also ironic that Pathfinder and Wraith mains are the ones who disagree on Caustic buffs the most, even though they have the easiest time dealing with him. It has to be because it disrupts their playstyle and they can't just rush in guns blazing like with every other legend (except wattson)

-Great post, even with these changes,(he needs more), I would be happy. Hope respawn gets on top on Mirage and Bloodhound as well to give them serious buffs.