Re: Havoc Nerf.

@SolitaryMassacre It's not difficult to control anymore, it used to be, but the recent buff made it super easy to control. Also, the only time I've ever found the Havoc to be a problem is in the early game when I have no shields, otherwise, you can't lose fights (if you're a half-way decent shot)! I mean, just recently I wiped a full, three-man squad with blue and white armor in a miraculous triple kill with one mag from the Havoc (I ran around a corner as they did and I just started hip-fire, albeit, they almost killed me, but I got all three of them, I also only had blue armor). And, as far as I could tell, they were all at full or close to full health (they all had full shields). Anyway, 32 starting ammo is too much, imo, and it's really, really easy to hit your targets with the Havoc (especially at mid-range, which is where, I think, it excells, but it'll get you outta any pinch).

@SolitaryMassacre Also, yeah, the Flatline with Purp. mag is worse, but the Flatline doesn't start with a purple mag, the Havoc does (I think it's actually 2 shots less than the original purple energy extended mag, but the difference is negligible).

@Robo_The_Man-Bot The only buff it got was the horizontal sway buff. And the patch notes stated it wasn't buffed by a lot, and I agree. Everything you just explained to be was nothing but pure luck! You got lucky. I consider myself to be very good with the Havoc (and yet fail to hit my shots sometimes) and never had the capacity to take an entire squad at full health with shields, there just isn't enough rounds in the mag for it. 32 is the starting amount because there are no ext mags. It has a charge up delay that seriously is hard to handle. Again, you got lucky, if you and everyone else were going around and wiping squads one after another with the Havoc, then I would be a little concerned of its power. A lot of people get downed by this gun and I truly believe those who "hate" it are getting downed by a modder. Its so easy to mod on PC. On my PS4, I hardly ever see anyone use the Havoc, and this was back when TC was still in.

@SolitaryMassacre The problem is, it's not just luck! Yes, that triple was luck, but not when it came to weapon damage! It was luck in the "time and place" sense, but the weapon did the same amount of damage it was gonna do anyway, not to mention, I've gotten more double kills with that gun than any other (except the Devotion), and with that gun, my enemies have little to no time to react. Even with my placement and the lack of skill from my enemies, it doesn't change the fact that a single mag from a gun was able to down an entire team. I too play on PS4, and I rarely see anyone else use the Havoc ('cause, I'll admit, I use the Havoc a ton, although, my opinion about it varies from moment to moment (not about the fact that's it's a little OP, but the "fun" factor of it)), so it's not really a problem for me (it's the PK that annoys the living daylights outta me), but I do feel like I'm cheesing my way through fights when I'm using it (kinda same with the Hemlock, but it's not as much of a spray and pray weapon). Also, I'm not saying this gun should take priority over other things in Apex (PS4 servers, PK, etc.), I'm just saying that the mag size is too much, I do think that the energy ammo buff was a good thing, though, but anyway. If I were to nerf it I'd reduce the mag to 24 shots, decrease the wind-up and leave the rest where it is, keep it as a higher skill weapon to use, but instead of a ton of ammo that you can spray, make the wind-up shorter, they could make it 28 shots, but 24 is still more than any other AR in the game.

@Robo_The_Man-Bot Well, if you can control the recoil on top of not being crippled during the charge up and hitting most/all your shots, then you must be good or playing with people who are worse/don’t know how to deal with it.

@Sir_Named I play on PS4, so most of the people I play against aren't that great, but I don't really care about the Havoc nerf as of rn, due to the fact that, it is not really a priority in terms of "needing fixing."
I'm kinda mad about the PS4 servers rn, I can't even log on without trying multiple times. It's actually really annoying...

@SolitaryMassacre Sorry What is the ,,hard to control''? It literally goes only up unlike L-star which is actually tough to control due to its Wiggly recoil a gun that has recoil that goes only up is not tough to control that applies to R-99's R-301 etc.

@NotSoThiccNow It has a more recoil than most guns, plus since it has the charge up time it can slightly surprise you a bit.