Forum Discussion

5 years ago

REMOVE MASTIFF ! OMG !

I swear ! I got killed by a guy level 60 ! plz it's a beginner ! MASTIFF requires no shot ! How to ruin a game with 12 bombs cuz of this noob gun ! get brain when you are doing some updates !

loot

weapons

Sir_Named

5 years ago

@LordloshBang
We’ve been over this. Because Mastiff has a wider spread, that means you can hit easier, but you hit less actual pellets, which results in low damage.

You can kind of strafe shotguns, but if they miss it’s probably because they were thrown off by the strafing, not because you actually dodge the bullets.

Warzone has the gulag, and Fortnite has reboot vans.

I think Lifeline is semi-balanced, but I’ll concede on that. But what about Mirage invis revive? Or Gibby fast revive? Those mess with the “base revive mechanics” but I haven’t seen you talk much about them. Or Bangalore smoke revive? Or Caustic gas revive?
Also, you say that the revive things stretch out the game and make you more prone to third parties.
A. Having a medic who can revive safely is good against third parties.
B. There are other abilities that slow down the gameplay in more significant ways, like Caustic’s entire kit, or Wattson’s entire kit.

Also, let’s say we wipe Lifeline’s slate clean. What abilities would you give a COMBAT MEDIC?
(Like Octane said, caps doesn’t mean yelling. I’d prefer to italicize, but I am writing this in quick reply and that’s not an option. Just want to emphasize the role Lifeline is kind of meant to be.)

Also, without any special revives, the overall ttk becomes really high, and third partying would become the #1 best way to play. Just sit in a good location and shoot enemies from a distance. (Which is already what happens most of the time, but it would happen even more.)

Edit: We should probably start toning these unrelated parts down, since this is supposed to be about the Mastiff, not reviving mechanics.

heme725

5 years ago

@LordloshBang There are points for and against Lifeline's revive but it is currently a problem that needs to be fixed. This topic isn't about reviving so lets move back to the Mastiff.

Your points seem like you're misunderstanding what other posters have mentioned and selectively dismissing key points.

If you're discussing TTK you can't mention damage without talking about the rate of fire. Thats why DPS is relevant. The Triple Take does more damage per shot than the R-99 but we all know which gun kills faster. There's only one situation where the damage is more important than the DPS and that's when firing the first round of any gun. The first shot of a Mastiff or PK outclasses every other gun but the lower rate of fire balances them out in drawn out fights.

I'm not sure if it was intentional but try not to change the meaning of other poster's points to make it easier to refute them. It's a little tiring.

Also whoever mentioned the Gulag that was a poor point to make. Like AOD said its more of a respawn than revive and is kind of off topic. Though I can understand its getting a bit heated in here.

Xx__Miku831__xX
5 years ago
@heme725 Actually that low fire rate didn't balance at all.

As you mentioned, Damage really matters when firing the first round. And Mastiff can land 100+ damage if you can really aim, and 2 shots can take out a purple shield character (or red shield if you are lucky to land headshots). This only takes 0.625 second to do this (without bolt). But with R99, since it has a low damage of shots, so we can just use DPS to calculate, which is 198. That means we need ~1 second to kill a purple shield guy. If you are too bad that cannot land 2 shots of 100+damage on the opponent, then you are doomed. But if you do, then your opponent will be melted.

The problem is that things become worse if you are already injured, mastiff will likely kills you in one shot, so unless you also bring a gun with high-damage per shot (ignoring DPS), you cannot win a fight like this.
Sir_Named
5 years ago
@Xx__Miku831__xX Unless, like heme said, it’s a drawn out fight. Or at a range further than like 20 meters. (Or feet? I’m from the Eagle Land, so I don’t instinctively know how long 20 meters is.)
Xx__Miku831__xX
5 years ago
@Sir_Named Probably be 20m. 20 feet is just too short for mastiff that you are hard to miss a shot even without aim.
For 20m range, mastiff can land 50+ damage if you aim well. So if you can shorten the distance with your opponent or using hit-and-run (actually hide?), you can still have a good chance to win.
Sir_Named
5 years ago
@Xx__Miku831__xX If you aim well, you can hit 50 damage.
If you don’t, you’ll get like 20 or 10.

But 50 damage at that range, with that rate of fire, is pretty bad compared to what other weapons could do.
heme725
5 years ago
@Xx__Miku831__xX True you can't win a fight against a Mastiff in that situation and I'm fine with it. Unlike AOD I view shotguns as a primary weapon so they need to be competitive in some way.
Basically there are three ranges of combat to consider. Long-range, mid-range and close-range. You can balance guns by making them all equally capable at fighting at every range (a boring method of balancing to me) or give guns a combination of weaknesses + strengths to put them on par with each other.
SMG's should excel at close-range, be competitive mid-range and suck long-range
Full auto assault rifles should be competitive at every range but dominant at none of them.
Snipers should dominate long-range and suck at close range,
Shotguns should dominate close-range, weak at mid-range and useless at long range.
That's typically how shooters work at least. The weaker you are at the other ranges the more you should compensate by dominating at the one thing you offer. If a gun is exceptionally versatile then it shouldn't be the most dominate gun at any individual range.
If you view shotguns as a primary weapon then it needs to compete with other guns at two of the three ranges or dominate at one exclusively. If you view it as nothing but a clean-up gun then we'll never agree but I understand your viewpoint. If you view the Mastiff as a primary weapon but want to equalize its strength with other weapons at close range then there's no point picking up the gun at all.
Not touching a gun that's equal to a R301/R-99 at close range and inferior everywhere else.