REMOVE MASTIFF ! OMG !
I swear ! I got killed by a guy level 60 ! plz it's a beginner ! MASTIFF requires no shot ! How to ruin a game with 12 bombs cuz of this noob gun ! get brain when you are doing some updates !
Forum Discussion
@LordloshBang I am quite surprise that this thread is still on fire that many people argue if mastiff needs a nerf. I think the last time I reply to this is about half a year ago.
The last balance change makes this gun cannot hit 52 in a ~30m range (at least I can't find an angle to hit), but it still got an issue that it is instant-dead weapon against no shield player and it really kills other people in 2 shots (except with red shield or those fat guys).
@BrainDeadWraiths I think you are wrong. R99 needs ~1s to kill a purple shield guy (actually it is >1s, but I am too lazy to recalculate the time). Mastiff definitely needs <1s to kill in the same situation as 1st shot doesn't need to pre-fire (like the 0.5s heat time of havoc). (I think I have calculated wrong in the previous post, but it definitely needs <1s)
This assumes that all bullets hit for R99 and mastiff, if you miss some of the shots. The punishment for R99 is heavier as there is not much spare bullets for you to waste before changing a mag. This does not apply to mastiff as it got 6 shots at once.
Don't tell me you need to run if you see a mastiff player. Everyone knows that, but how do you run away from them? If you run straight, you will be lasered by anyone or even the one who chase you, he can use the other weapon to kill you fast. In the worst case he only has mastiff, he can still deal damage to you and you can't fight (cause you are ONLY running away from him, you can't do anything to help). If you choose fight with him or running not straightly(like zig-zag, just don't run straight) or doing these 2 things together, you will lose this fight as he can (and he should) shorten the distance between you and him, and you will take >80 damage each shot. You may argue that you have teammates, but he has his teammates too. In a 1v1 situation, you really can't win the fight unless you are ~100m away from him and there is nothing between this 100m.
Hence, I wonder if the next patch will get some changes on mastiff again.
The last balance change makes this gun cannot hit 52 in a ~30m range (at least I can't find an angle to hit), but it still got an issue that it is instant-dead weapon against no shield player and it really kills other people in 2 shots (except with red shield or those fat guys).
@BrainDeadWraiths I think you are wrong. R99 needs ~1s to kill a purple shield guy (actually it is >1s, but I am too lazy to recalculate the time). Mastiff definitely needs <1s to kill in the same situation as 1st shot doesn't need to pre-fire (like the 0.5s heat time of havoc). (I think I have calculated wrong in the previous post, but it definitely needs <1s)
This assumes that all bullets hit for R99 and mastiff, if you miss some of the shots. The punishment for R99 is heavier as there is not much spare bullets for you to waste before changing a mag. This does not apply to mastiff as it got 6 shots at once.
Don't tell me you need to run if you see a mastiff player. Everyone knows that, but how do you run away from them? If you run straight, you will be lasered by anyone or even the one who chase you, he can use the other weapon to kill you fast. In the worst case he only has mastiff, he can still deal damage to you and you can't fight (cause you are ONLY running away from him, you can't do anything to help). If you choose fight with him or running not straightly(like zig-zag, just don't run straight) or doing these 2 things together, you will lose this fight as he can (and he should) shorten the distance between you and him, and you will take >80 damage each shot. You may argue that you have teammates, but he has his teammates too. In a 1v1 situation, you really can't win the fight unless you are ~100m away from him and there is nothing between this 100m.
Hence, I wonder if the next patch will get some changes on mastiff again.
@Xx__Miku831__xX Too tired to read the previous page at the moment. Obviously you can't turn and run away from a Mastiff user mid fight since he can just switch to his secondary weapon and pursue you. It's disrespectful to imply that's possible like it's disrespectful to suggest the Mastiff is a mid-range threat.
It does/did more damage than it should at that range but so does nearly every other weapon so it seemed dishonest and insulting to focus on that. R-99, Volt, Wingman being the primary weapons that ignore their theoretical range which some members of the community accepts because it takes some degree of skill. Not much skill for 2 of those guns to be honest.
I've maintained that shotguns should dominate at close range but I'm open to the idea that the Mastiff does a little to well here. Instead of focusing on that we've derailed into a sniper Mastiff debate which is honestly laughable to me.
As @MartimRosat mentions above the problem can be solved by tweaking or removing the shotgun bolt. Weakening it at all ranges while maintaining high damage close range shots.
Eva8 does way lower damage in QC and it does zero damage at the range Mastiff hits you for 50+ damage.
That speaks for itself.
- @Zamaha400 No damage reduction for range is really a problem. Actually I always get headshot by a wingman at a long range. Guess what, I am too tired that EA will not implement damage reduction on range, hence now I am trying to use wingman as my main weapon. For R99, I am too suck to control its recoil while Volt is better due to its slower fire speed.
As I said, mastiff are hard to win against most of the weapons when having 100m distance and there is nothing between them. You will certainly be deleted before you reach ~20m, which mastiff can deal more damage. But to be honest, there is not so much chance that this situation happens (and you are not allowed to flee). Of course you can't compare to that old good sniper shotgun (that 110 damage in a hit and can do the same in 100m), but mastiff is better as it can still deal some damage in mid-range and it is harder to miss, this makes enemy low enough to be 2-shotted even you missed some of the bullets.
Removing the bolt for mastiff only cannot solve the problem (actually problems). Although this kind of games needs to base on some lucks, you can die fast when you cannot get a bodyshield while enemy gets a mastiff. This takes only 0 second as BAM, you are already dead. You can do this with snipers too, but it definitely less likely to happen, the enemy at least need to aim at your head to do this. I think we need to do something to the damage of mastiff, either nerf its total damage, or even the 1st shot to an enemy only (but I think this is hard to implement, definitely lots of bugs will occur). @Xx__Miku831__xX True. I can't imagine a Mastiff without its high damage potential at close range but nobody likes losing a fight they never stood a chance in. Reducing its rate of fire would badly hurt it's raged fighting potential and punish Mastiff users more for missing shots but it's not enough to keep the community happy.
The only thing I can think of is trying the same thing they tried with the Sentinel. Give the Mastiff insane damage against armored opponents (110 or 130 max I don't care) but 70-80 max damage against flesh? Personally hate this idea but it weakens the weapons potential on the drop. Reducing the ammo capacity to 3 or 4 shots might also make it more punishing when it misses while the fact that it can fire after reloading one shell will keep it viable.
@Oyasumlpunpun Yeah... Massively off topic. There are two videos of Aim Assist in Apex that are passed around. One where the gun sticks to a target like glue even when the player doesn't do anything. Another where the gun SLIGHTLY slows down when the player physically drags it across a target. The community can't even agree which video is accurate or which system gains greater benefit from Aim Assist.
If you're talking about the glue-like Aim Assist then its incredibly OP and should be removed. Everything else above just seems like you're attacking players based on the wild assumptions you're making. Mainly me just because I disagree with you. I think I disagree with you? I'm not even sure what your point originally was since we're so off topic.
@Xx__Miku831__xX Typed out a long reply that didn't go through for some reason. People dislike losing to anything with no chance of fighting back but it's hard to keep a high damage weapon in the game without creating that situation. The few Ideas I have aren't well thought out enough to bother posting them again.
I hoped that removing the bolt from the equation (like @MartimRosat mentioned earlier) would be a significant nerf to its ranged potential and a decent loss to its up close dominance. You're probably right about that not being enough though.
@Oyasumlpunpun You're straight up arguing about Aim Assist to invalidate my argument. I'm not even sure what you think is problematic about the Mastiff since you give little focus towards the topic.
Can't believe I'm typing this a second time. There are two different versions of Aim Assist being passed around on video. #1 where the gun tracks players on their own. #2 Where the gun slows down slightly when dragged across a target. Most people would agree that #1 is unbalanced but the typical console players experience is #2.
I don't believe M/KB players should be mixed with controller players at all. Both sides feel they'll be at an unfair disadvantage but that has nothing to do with the Mastiff.
@Zamaha400
It is on topic but like every single argument you try to come up with, you just nitpick and try to throw out the rest of everyones argument. What was it that you said when you first replied to me? Changing someones arguments or something? Well yeah, thats all you've been trying to do. I've stated why its on topic in my message and since you clearly didnt read it, maybe you should reread it to actually be able to argue with what i said. Lastly, you defending aim assist is pathetic, just stop.
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