Season 14 did nothing of value for Newcastle.
Back again, with the same feedback because for some reason, season 14 decided to buff Newcastle in a way that did nothing for the issue. So what did this buff do? It made his scooter go faster. ...
Forum Discussion
@Kinesis862 My point about dumbing down the revive mechanic wasn't well made or directed at you. I was/am irritated by how the community is too dumb to crawl towards cover when downed which is what made Lifeline's revive "weak." Except an auto revive is far from weak players just expect to pull it off in the dumbest situations possible. When they introduced Newcastle he seemed like the perfect Legend to save teammates too foolish to crawl to cover. Making that aspect of him any easier just feels like we're buffing him to save teammates too dumb to stay alive.
Sorry if that wasn't clear but I was needlessly irritated when I wrote that. Nothing to do with you.
Moving on I feel fighting 1v2 is very possible so long as you don't set the ridiculous goal of winning the fight. The goal is to stall. Make yourself as difficult to hit as possible while remaining a threat to melt anyone that pushes your team. You're clearly at a disadvantage fighting 1v2/1v3 so it shouldn't be easy but to me that's the basic strategy for reviving mid-combat. If your teammate can't pull it off then he either fought poorly or the other team is just better. All I can say is "good fight try harder next time."
Lastly yes that is OP. The Golden Backpack is what made Gibraltar's revive so problematic in BR and Lifeline's in Arenas. I'm doubtful that you can give Newcastle a taste of that without making him too powerful.
@heme725I still don't understand why you would think its OP. Let me provide a comparison:
The ability I am suggesting requires Newcastle to get and use resources to pool into rez resources. Once you rez someone, the pool is used, so reviving again without spending the time and resources to recharge it would render the ability pointless. There is also the possibility that resources are not stored at a 1 to 1 rate, so you might have to use two phoenix kits just to get one full revive.
Lifeline by comparison gets free, infinite health regeneration every cooldown, and the ability to tilt the fight in favor of not losing another team mate to the revive.
So that means Newcastle has to use atleast one phoenix kit, possibly 2, just to get someone up and back in the fight, likely at the cost of the third teammate. Lifeline by comparison does not have to spend any resources, offers free health to the teammate, cover for the second teammate, and the revive target only needs to spend a shield bat to be back to full.
The result is that lifeline is just objectively better at getting teammates back into the fight, not only providing the team with better shields, free bats, and free health, but not compromising the other teammate to revive. Newcastle just gets a faster scooter and a destroyable barrier.
@Kinesis862 Ignoring the fact that Newcastle's entire kit is stronger than Lifeline's I fear you're focusing too much on what she has and he lacks.
If there's been a buff that I don't know about please correct me but Lifeline still has no shield when she goes for a revive. This means she requires some form of physical cover to pull off her revive. Cover fire isn't good enough for Lifeline to save a teammate in an open field unless your team is ridiculously aggressive and landing shots.
Newcastle CAN save a teammate even if he's exposed in an open plain. He has two means of creating his own cover and a passive that lets him drag a teammate to safety. Both revives have strengths that the other doesn't have and weaknesses that can be exploited.
Explaining how your buff could be OP is difficult. In part because I don't know what you're proposing (how much Hp/Shields would they have after revived now?) and in part because there are too many scenarios and variables to consider in a debate. So instead I'll focus on the resource argument.
Spending the time to charge up Newcastle's revive outside of combat would be trivial. Phoenix kits litter the battlefield since nobody carries more than one and the new Golden Backpack buff would let Newcastle carry two at a time. He can always have one buffed revived ready per fight and pulling it off once can be a game changer.
@heme725I don't see how you can say it is a fact that lifeline kit is somehow worse than newcastle when newcatle has an objectively worse pickrate than lifeline. It would be like saying Cryptos kit is stronger than bloodhound.
You are bringing up one single solitary situation and using to justify the entirety of newcastle's kit somehow. So in one VERY specific scenario for your idea of his strength to be correct:
- The ally has to be downed in the handful of completely wide open areas with absolutely no cover what so ever, which is a rarity even for king's canyon and Olympus as you don't usually just stand out in the open and fight there in 90% of the match.
- The ally has to have absolutely no knockdown shield strength to protect themselves.
- The ally has to be unable somehow to move to cover on their own.
- The enemies have to have no idea what a grenade is and have no intention of throwing them at newcastles.
- The enemies have to have absolutely no movement skills to run up on newcastles cover and negate it (which I know is super common for apex right, for a team to have 0 movement skills)
- Newcatle has to have ult at this very moment or the Ally will be instantly downed the moment the revive is done. A tac shield is just an invitation for a free kill because of how easy it is to break.
- The revived ally has to sit behind the Ult to heal, and of course the enemies have to be well versed in twiddling their thumbs and not understanding how grenades or tac abilities work.
Meanwhile Lifeline only requires:
- There is any kind of cover nearby, her own care package included.
- She can offer presence to keep enemies from paying attention to the person being revived.
And your idea of whether or not something is OP or not is to base it on what happens with a GOLD LEVEL EQUIPMENT? I don't understand your point at all, lifeline can pull off a revive with a completely free full heal once per fight too, yet that is not comparable? I don't see where you are coming from this, you put way too much stock in the value of destroyable cover. This isn't a gibby dome sans a mad maggie, all of it can get ran over and bypassed with ease.
@Kinesis862 Sorry I passed out before responding. Gibraltar also had (has?) the worse pickrate in the game but his kit was objectively the best among starting Legends. Poor pickrate doesn't necessarily mean bad kit.
I believe I mentioned there were too many variables and situations to describe how your change would be OP so I deliberately DID NOT mention any single scenario. Going through your examples however...
- Its a poor idea to fight in an open space but a large number of players do it anyway. Either because they're forced to by the flow of the map or because they're idiots. This is why I was whining earlier about dumbing down the revive. Newcastle is a Legend built to save the idiot player who goes down in a bad spot.
- Not about protecting the ally but bringing him back into the fight so an ally's knockdown shield is irrelevant to the revive mechanic and this discussion.
-True they have to be unable (or stupidly unwilling) to reach cover on their own.
-Yeah grenades are one of the counters to a Newcastle revive although he has 3 different shields to mitigate their effects.
-Yes the enemy team can and should rush down a Newcastle team before he can revive. This is why I mentioned having your 3rd teammate provide cover fire in my first post. You're still at a disadvantage since he's fighting 1v3 but I don't think the team that's losing the fight should have the advantage anyway.
True on your last four points.
Ah I see the misunderstanding with your last statement. I understood your buff to be mimicking the Gold Backpack (now the Gold Knockdown Shield) which is why I mentioned it. If you're not arguing for reviving allies with partial shields/health then that doesn't mimic the Gold knockdown so my disagreement is irrelevant. I also mentioned the now changed Golden Backpack to illustrate that he now can easily carry 2-4 Phoenix kits to recharge such a passive but that was a minor point that doesn't change my position on this either way. It's an extra point that can be disregarded but is true nonetheless.
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