Should Ash Keep Her Dash?
Introduction I have no intention of denying that you attempted a rework or the Dash ability itself. However, I question whether it was good to combine this ability with Ash, an Assault-class Lege...
Forum Discussion
Not sure why you are bringing up different classes and their perks. Imo Ash dash has nothing to do with that. Imo and experience dash is used only to throw off enemy's aim / tracking mostly in close range fights, secondly I would assume if caught out in the open area. Dash is basically useless in longer range fights.
Same goes for in team coordination - you can't gain "that much" distance with dash e.g. in comparison to Rev's leap, Path's grapple, Octane stim etc. Coordination suffers imo mostly / only because people inability to communicate and/or process information during stressful situations - your "I can only run and gun, not IGL" type of players which are basically majority especially ones that use controller.
Finally I would not base many decisions based on pickrate - there are too many "brainless fanboys/fangirls" that would play "meta" just for sake of playing most popular legends, at the same time having 0 clue how to play them.
People in higher ranks still play quite random comps, just example from yesterday from games that went well for me following legends were present in my team / enemy teams:
- Pathfinder especially on Worlds edge
- Meggie
- Wattson
- Lifeline (personally best results on her for me, even went on like 500 RP+ streak at one point playing her, Ballistic and Alter)
- Mirage
- Loba especially on Worlds edge
- Rev
- Newcastle
- Wraith
- Rampart
- to a certain extent Crypto
Given I was playing a lot of Ash since her arrival (liked the passive that helped track enemy movements - very useful when soloqing) I already liked her and the snare = free to stop enemy in its tracks and kill ability. When buff of double snare or tripple time came around = amazing, maybe a bit OP. Then they also fixed the Ult placement mechanics = now it is more reliable.
I think the game changer is not so much dash rather dash + AA / hacks combination. As before you could close the distance with many Legends but they were linear, predictable (except Path's grapple and abuse of Octane jump pad and tapstrafing). Now with addition of dash most will use Ult -> Dash -> enemy wifs half-mag+ -> AA / hack and one-mag him back. In combination with rising number of hackers Ash pickrate increase is imo clear outcome. Before it was legends like Octane, Path, Rev = highly mobile, very useful for hackers to run towards their next pray, close distance instantly, make tracking them much harder for legit players. Now Ash is just the same + has snare = you will often see that if hackers fail at mobile part they will switch to tactics of snaring you and then "magically" throwing perfect or **bleep** near perfect skynades. Most Preds just automatically do that and you can't avoid it and it is more lethal than dash if you ask me.
And the fact that Ash was less popular before just meant that there were other OP legends like support meta (people could re-heal faster than being downed) or Rev+Crypto ult (doing damage or buffing yourself for significant advantage and basically 100% 1v1 win if combined with hacks) before that. Otherwise snare + skynade + aimbot was always present tactics for highest rank players - you can check Season 22 or prior top Preds and there were already then many Ash "mains".
Eshshshss Thank you for your reply.
I am not singling out Ash's dash alone as being problematic. I believe that the combination of Ash's "dash" ability and her characteristics as an Assault class character is what makes her dangerous. Indeed, the fact that her previous abilities were targeted for nerfs after her rework indicates the threat this combination poses.
It's a shared understanding between you and me that highly mobile characters, not just Ash, are favored by cheaters. Furthermore, it's only natural that Ash is popular among cheaters, given her excellent Assault-like abilities combined with her superior mobility.
The skewed pick rates are a serious problem.
I disagree with the notion that pick rates are not biased in high-ranked lobbies. Even in Predator/Master tiers, Ash stands out significantly at 34.6%, followed by Ballistic at 16.5%, Alter at 12.3%, Pathfinder at 8.6%, and Sparrow at 6.2%. Meanwhile, nearly half of the entire roster, 12 characters, have less than 1% pick rate. This clearly demonstrates a severe imbalance, regardless of rank tier.
If you watch this video on youtube called "Apex Legends | Legend Pick Rates 2021-2024 | MUSICAL BATTLE" you will see that similar situation was present pretty much always:
1 legend that is basically must have because overbuffed
2-4 legends being in battle for close 2nd place
1-3 legends that are like "fan favorites" - your soloq Wraith picks no matter how nerfed she was, Wattson fanboys/fangirls, ADHD Octane kids etc.
1 legend "short rise to top" when released followed by crypto like slumps shortly after as hype wears away or legend is hardly reworked.And in Apex this tendency is actually not that bad even if I compare it to Valorant where people literary will take timeout penalties if their "main" is picked by someone else or team does not pick certain legend combo / meta.
Also many believe (I am not one of them) in strategy that you better get really good at playing one legend vs being good/average with most = people just can't play to its average best level all legends most of time, don't feel comfortable, in many cases even mess up teamwork because bad timing of ability uses - just yesterday one Ash fanboy wanting to "save me" ported me into Lava and then followed up by trying to pick me up there...and that's D3/D2 level player who probably started playing Ash just this split.
Discord is no exception - especially NA side LFG posts very often contain texts to play meta, play certain legends = forcing people to do that or sit idle.
Finally it takes less effort to play X legends vs all of them and given many even ranked players are "casuals" they don't bother investing time in training multiple tricks vs they just copy/paste game after game same tactics, now it is = knock someone -> ashport -> dash -> devotion / r99 s#$@ out of the rest standing. Or vice versa when on receiving end = get knocked -> take Alter portal back -> reset -> repeat.
You can add here also legends that are highly MNK oriented (require looking around, loads of crosshair movement, directional changes) - Path, Valk, Bang to certain extent, Sparrow - which are not picked a lot more because most play on controllers. As well as legends that thrive in good teamwork but are pain to play when team does not function well - Gibi (with sad lonely bubble death), Newcastle, Rampart, Catalyst, Wattson (to a degree), Caustic (even old version), Conduit. And again those are not picked / picked only on higher ranks, because even up until high Masters people can't teamwork in this game and relay 90%+ on running and gunning, outshooting enemies rather than outsmarting them / outplaying with numbers.Thank you for your reply.
I understand your point that, based on YouTube videos and past trends, there has always been a "must-pick" legend and a tendency for pick rates to be skewed. However, is an "always skewed" state truly healthy for the game?
Regarding your opinion that "random compositions are seen in higher ranks," I respectfully disagree. I presented pick rate data from mid-June for both Predator and Master tiers, which shows Ash significantly standing out at 34.6%, with a few top legends dominating the majority of picks. Meanwhile, 12 legends—nearly half of the entire roster of 27—remain below a 1% pick rate. This situation clearly indicates a severe lack of strategic diversity, not just for specific player segments, but even within high-level play environments like Predator and Master.
You mentioned factors like "players preferring easy wins," "specializing in one skill," and "lack of teamwork." These certainly exist as player-side factors. However, doesn't the developers' inaction regarding excessively overpowered legends contribute to and encourage such player behavior? If a particular legend offers an "easy path to victory," players naturally choose it as an effort to adapt to the environment. This can be seen as a direct result of the environment created by the developers.
We players desire a game environment where more legends are viable, allowing us to choose our favorite characters and enjoy diverse strategies. The current pick rate imbalance is not merely a result of player choice; I believe it's an indication that the game's design is strongly guiding those choices towards specific legends.(In fact, a recolored version of Pathfinder's gloves was released around the same time as his re-buff.)
As you said, I agree that the "dash + AA/hack combination" amplifies Ash's threat. But precisely because of this, shouldn't we reconsider the balance of Ash's dash ability itself, which forms the foundation of that combination?
I think that this community is asking devs to solve "mission impossible":
- by now there are 27 legends = it is like juggling with 27 balls at the same time, not sure anyone can do that in the world
- community of mainly casuals are always asking for more content skins, guns, maps AND legendsBasically asking devs to "balance / buff" existing legends while coming up with new ones. Not sure if that is possible.
Also based on e.g. Valorant experience I would lean towards "superhero" mode where if not abilities then ultimate abilities are so strong for every legend that only coordinated retreat or counter ultimate is the way to avoid giving enemy team a guaranteed kill. Because asking to align 27 legends (each with passive + ability + ultimate) it is just too crazy of a task, add to that input differences, level differences etc... crazy equation to be solved.
Another extreme is the fact that players ask for diversity at the same time being lazy and maining X legend since season 0...go figure :D
From this perspective I also like the approach of Respawn where they constantly mess up legends, guns, mechanics, recoils etc. to force people to adjust. This community is just too lazy and imo this might be the only way to motivate people to switch from Wraith after having 100000 kills on her or whatever.
As for to top level Preds/Masters I was actually meaning to say ALGS pros / competitive players - my point was that other comps are present and successfully compete against meta = proving it is possible.
Also sorry but I still put Preds and most Masters into 90+% hacker category as I struggle to see legit players on that level. It is always something that they are exploiting and I don't believe that someone is THAT good that he/she can outshoot aimbot or outsmart wallhack on regular basis aka if 60 player lobby contains a squad that can do 15+ KP on top level and clearly are hacking I will not believe that some legit "Pred/Master" can battle vs such force without hacks, especially if there are like 750 Preds and somehow people think that 50%+ are hacking but other 50% = 300+ people are unique talents... too many talents, gifted players. If it would be like 10 out of 750 I might buy it, but 300 out of 750... too good to be true. Which leads to previous conclusion = Ash is so good mostly because of combination with AA/aimbot.
As for environmental changes = we need to keep in mind that majority of the player base is controller player, more so majority of those are on consoles (at least it was the case before). Which means: probably playing on TV and speakers (not using audio to its best capabilities, lower fps, huge field of view), limited ability to look around, change directions fast, limited number of binds (whatever number of buttons vs 100+ keys on keyboard alone). So from business perspective Respawn can't just create legends that are not suited / heavily favor MNK, which in turn leads to the same patterns of "close the distance, run and gun".
If we look at the legend list:Bloodhound – legend for those who have 0 game awareness.
Gibraltar – close range tank -> controller focused.
Lifeline - need to play close to teammates, pick them up -> somewhat controller focused.
Pathfinder – highly mobile -> MNK focused (4-5th place pickrate)
Wraith – push into your face and run away -> controller focused
Bangalore – smoke fights, killing enemies going out of smoke -> somewhat controller focused
Caustic – close range controller -> controller focused
Mirage – close range bamboozle -> controller focused
Octane - running, closing distance to bring fights to close range -> controller focused
Wattson - close range controller -> controller focused
Crypto – in and out of drone scanner -> MNK focused (16-20th place pickrate)
Revenant - running, closing distance to bring fights to close range -> controller focused
Loba – fun one for loot goblins
Rampart - close range controller -> controller focused
Horizon – pusher using verticality and mobility -> MNK focused (9-15th place pickrate)
Fuse – viable more on mid/long range imo -> somewhat MNK focused (14-18th place pickrate)
Valkyrie - pusher using verticality and mobility -> MNK focused (20-22th place pickrate)
Seer - legend for those who have 0 game awareness.
Ash - running, closing distance to bring fights to close range -> controller focused
Mad Maggie – tailored to close range shotgun fights -> totally controller focused
Newcastle - need to play close to teammates, pick them up -> somewhat controller focused
Vantage – mobile, effective on long range -> MNK focused (22-24th place pickrate)
Catalyst - close range controller -> controller focused
Ballistic – can be played either way
Conduit - close range controller -> controller focused
Alter – close range bamboozle via portals -> controller focused
Sparrow – mobile scanner, utilizing verticality -> MNK focused (new legend in top 5 but in comparison not like other new legends who went top 1 for at least 1st split)
As you see there are like 7 out of 27 legends that are suitable more for MNK vs controller -> now we look at pick rates for those and they are with exception of Pathfinder not even in top 10. Clear indication that:
a) game is tailored towards controller players / close range fights
b) people are not able to play legends that require certain mechanical skills, game awareness, lining up long range shotsAnd it is not so much legend or strategy problem, especially below Master’s level. It is people problem – they are too lazy, not competitive, unwilling to challenge themselves, have sub par progress while acquiring new skill = most aim to get X rank no matter how, even via boosts and hacks.
While e.g. myself I just decided to main Crypto one season!!! Because a) I have not seen many good ones around b) I was eager to learn how to help team while not making them fight every fight 2v3.
Later I was and still am saying that I have not seen one good Wattson player in sub Masters level -> so I decided to play Wattson just to see how well I can play her. It was hard, painful yet I still managed to reach at least D4 with them + had really a lot of fun eventually playing legends people are not expecting and have usually 0 idea on how to counter = had joy outsmarting people even though I still got outgunned most of the time.
If you are smart enough and fast enough you can at least prevent or slow down Ash/Ballistic push via e.g. Wattson fences, in many cases even stun them in their way via trapping. Yet most don’t do that, haven’t see it once, because it requires game awareness, communication and really fast movement placing fences + brain regarding where to position and put them. = too hard -> skip.
Finally regarding hacking and smurfing – these two diseases also skew our ability to tell how good / bad legends actually are. Typical example – aimbot + skynade = 100 damage = instant advantage. At that point factor of what legend you play is so secondary as now team on defense has to waste 6? second to use battery or fight you 100 vs 200 health. HUGE disadvantage which you should be able to convert 9 out of 10 times, with hacks 10 out of 10.
Same goes with just pure softbot / aimbot = you just crack 2+ people while taking little to no damage yourself e.g. 3030+skullpiercer headshots = again defensive team has 300+! Less health => conversion is 10 out of 10.
Wallhack – easy to isolate, coordinate push into 1 vs multiple scenario, easy first knock, rollover 9 out of 10 times at least.
And all of this can be done on ANY legend, but as described above even easier with mobile legends that can close the distance. I would assume most hackers would still play Octane but it would be too sus/obvious in combination of 10+ KP games. Ash, Ballistic, Alter gives them “stealth argument” in a way that “hey I get so many kills because I play meta”…
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