They're obviously hardcore, but also the type of people that drop thousands into the game on cosmetics. That's why it's important for Respawn to cater to both casual and hardcore players.
"They're obviously hardcore, but also the type of people that drop thousands into the game on cosmetics. That's why it's important for Respawn to cater to both casual and hardcore players. "
While that's true, that's also a fast way to kill the player base and make both sides leave the game. All it needs is the "casual" player to get tired of being moving targets and move to the next game and suddenly the "hardcore" that only wants easy kills will not have people to kill and will also leave.
Sure EA can make this, and to be fair with their past that will be the route, but for the game itself that's a terrible move. Now if it's a terrible business move... well that i don't know.
Proper matchmaking is required, as should be for most games. when you are at lower levels you should not be pitched against ranked 40's. Nobody learns from it. Remember, all these Youtubers play together in squads.
Casuals should be catered for as lets be honest, they probably make up for a large amount of users (especially on console), so should feel they have fighting chance when they get home from work, not be put against someone who's been glued to their machine all day. Having a fighting chance gives you something aim for, a willingness to learn,as in anything in life.
Oh, add a hardcore mode, ditch the body armour and lets really see what gamers are made off, I for one would have loads more kills than I currently do as I frequently react and start hitting the enemy first, just to get turned on by a bullet sponge and die, frustrating.
There are a lot of bullet sponges on this game and the fact there is no ping visualisation doesn't help.
Community ManagerThis is some great feedback from everyone here with a lot of different perspectives on matchmaking. Love it! We know there are a lot of players out there that are hungry for a competitive mode, while others are just fine with a casual feel for things. We'll make sure the Respawn team gets wind of this. At the end of the day we want you to have fun while we work to keep things fresh with new content. Good luck in the ring!
Being one of the casuals that isn't having fun... All I feel I'm doing at the moment is collecting loot from zones that the better players haven't gone to. Its not fun.
Thanks, @EA_Blueberry !
@Dirticusnapicus wrote:Being one of the casuals that isn't having fun... All I feel I'm doing at the moment is collecting loot from zones that the better players haven't gone to. Its not fun.
me too! âšī¸
I think I am gonna stop, for now...
Nice to know EA heard us! đ
competitive or casual there should be matchmaking either way, even when playing casually i want to have fun and play with other noobs, not pubstomped with no chance of winning
it can be more loose in casual, but atm its ridiculous and its just same people winning constantly, which is no fun, i play to have fun and winning is fun.
@Caluka1337 You don't improve from being vaporized instantly by incredibly better players than you. You just get frustrated. New players coming into the game don't care about getting better and want to play as they are but if they get instantly taken out by some sweaty tryhard, it will simply turn them off from the game. You seem to believe that matchmaking only favors the one that try to better themselves all the time when it's actually not the case. Also, you talk like matchmaking only puts you against a twin of yours (in terms of skill) when it is not the case. It puts people of SIMILAR skill level. You will then have people slightly less good against slightly better players (in a perfect matchmaking) which will them keep things challenging but give a fair chance to everyone and the less experienced will learn from it unlike if they get instantly roasted. Finally, because you experienced bad matchmaking in OW then it must mean it will be bad in all other games? Is that your argument?
@Caluka1337 wrote:
So basically you just want to have free wins.
I'm sorry but I just cant agree with skill based matchmaking for games, mainly because in theory its all good but after having played Overwatch I know how ridiculously toxic people get and all the fun from playing casually with 59 other random people who can be either a total potato at the game or the best player in the server is lost, and I believe that the main thing on a battle royale, which is basically a gigantic arena where you don't know who you are facing until you get in a fight. There is no thrill or reason to get better if everyone is exactly at the same level, and even worse you start having to worry not to get degraded to lower levels because getting paired with random squadmates in skill based matchmaking gets frustrating VERY fast, especially on servers where people usually speak more than one language (and yes, the ping system helps a lot here but it still doesnt replace direct communication).
....
I am sorry but you don't seem to make too much sense...
On one hand you seem to be all against skill based match making.
On the other hand you plainly criticising someone as wanting "free win" is pointing out a big flaw of game without match maker.
But later you mention Overwatch and cite it as "proof" that match maker make people toxic (where does this come from, really?) and say match maker is a problem because it gives you "bad team mate"? Which is absolutely non sensical, how could a skill based match maker can give you WORST team mate that a random match maker?! :o
At any rate I too play a lot of Overwatch (level 2500) and I have many friends I play regularly with who are level 800 and more. I am low silver myself, I blame it on being 47. But some of my online friend are in the 20ies... and still high silver. Point is, you can improve only that much... You have some biological limit that would make play against way better player completely not worth it.
Point is, a skill base match maker help widen your audience, more people can have a good time.
And no, I will assert with the same complete lack of argument as you did, the reverse assertion. Skill based match maker does not impact player toxicity. And, if anything, could improve it marginally.
Exactly this! ^
How can somebody wanting matchmaking (therefore asking to play against people of similar skill lvl) be asking for free wins? That's EXACTLY the opposite!
@Caluka1337no worries.
I have to admit I have the perspective of a below average player who knows well enough I will never even reach average, and I know I am not the only one in this case. In fact there is easily 20% of the potential player base who will never "git gud".
It is clear also that the good players are the one bound to lose the most with skill based match maker.
A "perfect" skill based match maker will:
- bring bad player stats in number of kills and number of win up (a bit)
- severly bring down good player (from 90% win to 5% and big drop in kills)
Now.. many good players might be discouraged, but many bad player might join a game they will have never played otherwise, so it's tricky whether it's worth the implementation effort for Respawn.
Now I want to use your own arguments against you. Good player won't (should not?) be discouraged?
Instead they could take the increased difficulty as a challenge to get even better, couldn't they? I mean git gud is all the rage, isn't it?
Also, 2 clear bonus for good players:
- they won't be paired with noob. Which many good player seems to complain a lot about...
- they could boast of being the best of the best
That's where you are wrong.
Luck doesn't stop a veteran player from owning newbies with a p2020. Also lets say that a veteran player can easily run from newbies until he gets a weapon, the other way around will not happen.
Acting like reducing skill gap will remove "skill" from the game is laughable. If anything it will increase skill because the newbies will learn something when they die. The tryhards will have to learn something because now their targets will shot back.
I Said that before and i will say again: I don't think a ladder where people are neatly matched with people of their skill level is the way to go. But it needs at least one or 2 splits in the player base and EA needs to enforce that, banning streamers ta smurf is a good way to set a example by the way, because i cannot see this game getting anywhere.
@Caluka1337 The "huge luck" only really works early game for pro players. They will instantly vaporized people (the non pros, non twitch streamers, etc.) even if they have P2020 because ( 1)they are almost always playing in a premade of 3 with 2 pro friends and ( 2)they are that good at the game that even with a P2020 they will be able to drop noobs with better gear. Once the pros start dropping people, they are getting all the gear they need to continue and snowball the rest of the round.
When you say "You are diminishing the reward for players who play regularly and manage to get maybe not good, but decent at the game."
It sounds like you are saying "once you get decent you can sometimes destroy noobs and that's the reward". No, the reward is playing a challenging, non/lot less frustrating and, finally, fair game if you have good matchmaking. Pros destroying noobs is only entertaining for so long and, more often than not, by the time the pro grew tired of owning noobs, the noobs would have rage quit if that's the only sort of experience they have: either they get exciting and challenging engagements against fellow noobs or they get vaporized by way better/more experienced players.
About your athlete metaphore, having no matchmaking is actually like having real leagues of say hockey where you would see adult professionnal teams playing against kids teams in a real competitive way. Yeah, the kids can learn so much from being demolished (not). Oh and the kids will totally not say "F it, I ain't making a career in hockey". lol
I am an average player, maybe slightly above average and it's boring to destroy a squad of oblivious noobs while it's also frustrating to be instantly taken out by somebody that I'm not even sure if he's using cheats or not because he looks like he's THAT good/accurate. The best engagements are when both squads are about as good because it's fair and exciting (because you don't know the outcome, it's a 50/50 for who will win).
The problems you are speaking about with skill based matchmaking are actually problems with randomly throwing together a server.
Free wins: You seriously think an even playing field where everyone has a chance to win is "free wins" instead of throwing "Chad Thunderc*** with 100 played games, 500 kills, 80 times in the top 3" together with "Jake from accounting who just downloaded the game"? A pro OW player played Apex a few days ago and killed 1/3 of the server by himself with Wingman. That's the definition of a free win, having a good chance that a large chunk of the people you're up against are significantly worse than you because they're just randomly chosen out of the total of players. That's basic probability theory.
"getting paired with random squadmates in skill based matchmaking gets frustrating VERY fast" : you seriously think that's better if it's a totally random person? Read that again and tell me where in the world a completely random person as a squadmate is better than a person around your skill level. Oh yeah, in the 1/100 chance that it's someone significantly better than you who will carry your butt so you don't have, and I quote "thrill or reason to get better".
The issue about getting better matched against really good people: You can not compare SC2 with a shooter. Seriously, think about it for one second. A SC game takes a while even if you're completely outmatched, you're only up against one person and you can analyze what they're doing. In a shooter if you're completely outmatched you encounter them and 2 seconds later you're dead, maybe getting one magazine worth of shots off. Tell me how does one get better at leading targets, considering projectile dropoff (which is different with different weapons no less), dealing with spray patterns etc. etc. etc. if during a whole game you have a generous 10 seconds of fighting until you're decimated? Improving the mechanical parts of the game is a large part of getting better and you simply don't have that if you never get to shoot to begin with.
@TSF_VindictiV wrote:@Caluka1337 Finally, because you experienced bad matchmaking in OW then it must mean it will be bad in all other games? Is that your argument?
To be fair, the matchmaking in Overwatch is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE. It should not be used as any sort of benchmark for accurate/good matchmaking but rather an example of what not to do.
@Mechdemon I would agree with that. In OW there would be times where I would be half drunk and our team would still ROFLstomp the enemy team, othertimes even if I was trying to win our team would be getting the noobs and we would be decimated in mere minutes. The matchmaking in OW really felt like there was no matchmaking at all.
@Mechdemon wrote:
@TSF_VindictiV wrote:@Caluka1337 Finally, because you experienced bad matchmaking in OW then it must mean it will be bad in all other games? Is that your argument?
To be fair, the matchmaking in Overwatch is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE. It should not be used as any sort of benchmark for accurate/good matchmaking but rather an example of what not to do.
problem with overwatch is not matchmaker itself but the stat it is based on, the hidden mmr, issue with it is when you do too good, better than average stats with that hero on that map at that sr your mmr skyrockets and the game starts expecting you to carry the game and will actively start to sabotage you with low mmr players in your team so the hidden mmr averages out between both teams and if you are playing a hero or role that cant carry you are *, and will stay * even when losing 20 games in a row if you leave your mmr high with high stats. you can cheat the system with doing * like mostly dps moira and get from silver to platinum easily as your average heal will stay under 10k per 10min and game will reward your bad behaviour with better teammates. granted you need to do good as dps moira still.
@Caluka1337 wrote:
So basically you just want to have free wins.
You have a really nice post, even though I disagree how people learn, but you ruin all credibility with this opening statement
Exactly. At a casual level no one cares about wins, they just want to get at least half into the match before some sweaty Peacekeeper's them from 100 feet away.
Matchmaking should be based on KDR as well, not just level
