When does the rigged matchmaking end ?

@NerfMyAimPlz"you guys forget is that the matchmaking is the same for everyone. ".
And i beg to differ.
Friend (roughly the same skill) queues at the same time as me , gets > 200kill mates, i queue < 100 kill mates ... 20 times in a row.
Dont tell me the matchmaking is the same for everyone , it has a reason why i say its rigged, thats not out of thin air !
The main difference between my friend an me is : i invested like 50 Bucks on apex, he maybe 500+ , maybe thats the "other variables" that count into the MM 
And for me its not about some rank being "hardstuck" whatever , its about having a good game (i play pubs most of the time) . I dont like to babysit beginners constantly, 

@r1ggedgame 

Well, you are correct that there are variables that make the matchmaking not totally random for players of the exact same rank which it should be IMO. In Respawns blog post about SBMM, they admitted that each players hidden elo affects the matchmaking even in ranked, which is ridiculous. They explicitly confirmed that if you are having good games, i.e you are over-performing at your current rank, you will be matched against higher elo players which usually means players who currently is a higher rank than yours. And likewise, if you are underperforming, you might be matched with players below your current rank etc etc. (So this is the reason why you sometimes see a "diamond" in gold lobbies. That diamond probably had multiple bad games with -60 RP and therefore dropped in ELO to average Gold)

BUT my point is that these rules are the same for everyone. You are not singled out in a ranked matchmaking specifically tailored to put YOU, one player among millions, in an disadvantage compared to all other players. Thats my point. We all play under the same rules. So if you cant reach, lets say Diamond4, then its not the system that is rigged because many other players manage to reach diamond 4 under the exact same matchmaking as you. 

The only systematic unfairness that I can think of is that they sometimes match 3-man stacks vs squads of 1 solo + 1 premade duo. But in all honestly, I think the matchmaking is actually try to avoid this too. I rarely see obvious full 3-man stacks when I play solo and I can definitely see a difference in enemy teams coordination and teamwork when I play as a 3-man premade compared to when I solo Q

@r1ggedgame 

Well it was you who answered my first post which clearly was about ranked mm. I just skimmed the previous posts but it seems to me that most people talk about ranked in this thread. Maybe clarify in the title that you only want to discuss pubs?

Dont know about the MM in pubs but it seems to me that good players will have average good games and bad players will on average have bad games i.e very little SBMM and mostly randoms or based on premade or solo-status. Still doesnt feel "rigged", just a bit unfriendly and harsh I guess.

@NerfMyAimPlzyea and you ranted about the people here being whiny while hardstuck and i wanted to point out that that's not me (me being the one opening this thread ...).
And since you said you dont know about MM in pubs, take my word ... its not unfriendly/harsh, its rigged. if it would be random, i would get players across the board, but its 70% beginners, 20% "brainiacs" that know better even its obviously a bad idea and around 10% good matches.And by good matches i dont mean wins, just good matches where the team works as a team. Ok the MM cant really get those 20% brainiacs filtered out, but surely the "newbs".
Im fed up of the Purple shield octanes that do 50dmg, leave the loot goblins to smb else but me.

@r1ggedgame 

Yes, if "rigged" means that the teams are not totally randomly formed, then we agree.  Its most likely not. Based on the blog post about SBMM, it most likely try to create "fair" teams by separating the 20 currently best performing players into different teams and the fill those teams with the rest. Who knows? Perhaps the MM even separates the 60 connected players into 3 groups; the 20 best, 20 mid, and 20 worst players and then creates 20 teams from one player from each group? Just speculating but it would make sense. 

So if the "rigged" matchmaking looks something like this, then its just make sense that above average players will more often than not feel like he is the best player in the team. As a matter of fact; this would also be true in a totally random matchmaking. But my argument about ranked MM also applies to pub matchmaking: Its fair because the MM is the same for everyone. yes, it can be tough and un-fun for bad players but you cant blame the MM because everyone is playing under the same matchmaking. And once again; good players will have more good games than bad. So if you are a good player, then its your job to carry your team of you and two mid-to-bad players vs 19 other teams of one good nad two mid-to-bad players .

I play pubs all the time and can have a decent time, averaging about 2 KD without tryharding

@r1ggedgameI am 1,000,000% with you. I'm completely fed up with the matchmaking in this game; it is complete BS!

None of the S16 changes & additions will mean jack squat if they don't fix the matchmaking and figure out how to deal with cheaters better.

Orientation matches will just be delaying the inevitable of getting your @$$ handed to you by Masters & Preds because the matchmaking somehow thinks you are a god when you are just average.

Part of the issue is the amount of players smurphing and cheating on new accounts. If they lock legends like Horizon and Seer until after the player hits level 50, or even 75, less people should be smurphing at least. Although granted people smurph or cheat with any legend so I don't see much use in it unless they start putting them into their own lobbies.

@PeterN_UK 

That behavior will get you hardware banned for sure. The devs said that exactly this is what the illegal smurfing is in a tweet, i.e to create multiple account over and over to get into the "1-1.5 weeks" noob lobbies. So I would strongly advice against this. 

What its all about is that EVERYONE want to feel like the big man. Everyone wants to be able to get at least 1000+ dmg, 4-5 kills per game on an average. But if you think about it, this kind of matchmaking is IMPOSSIBLE to achieve. Even in theoretically perfectly "fair" matchmaking, you would only average 1 KD and 5% win rate. But even at this SBMM, people would still cry about "unfair matchmaking", even if its the pure definition of a fair matchmaking.  I admit that playing 1 KD average matches is not that fun so I understand that people take the easy way out (instead of actually gridning until they are good enough to get better average KD). But if you are around 1 KD, then at least be smart enough to say what you really want: you want to be feel like a pro and therefore play in easy lobbies =)