Here's why:Very good/pro players will generally be better than most players they encounter in every game they load into, meaning sbmm doesn't really affect them as much. Sure they might meet a few players that give them a challenge, but in general it's still a run and gun for them. These apex predators with 20k badges are getting into a lobby with players like me, it really doesn't make much difference to them i can assure you.The below average/bad players will generally lose against most players they encounter and so it doesn't really affect them as much, in fact it's probably the group of players it helps the most as it stops them being pub stomped from even slightly good players. (apart from smurfs, but that's a whole other discussion)Then there's what i call the ''middle man'', the player who ranges from average to good, the player who pops off every now and again but isn't a consistently insane player making awesome plays every game. We are the ones who suffer the most from SBMM, because we aren't just thrown into a match with players on our own skill level. It seems if you're anything from above average to apex predator, then you're all getting mixed into the same lobby. Countless times i have seen posts about someone being sick of seeing 3 apex preds with 20k badges in the same game as them, and I experience it myself almost EVERY game. If you saw my account, you'd probably think ''yeah not bad bro'', you wouldn't then believe i am being matched against these types of players.Does anyone fully understand the SBMM system? Is it based on your accuracy, average damage dealt, player level, K.D, just what could any system possibly see on my account that it thinks '' Yeah, you got a chance against this pre made apex predator squad''. Since SBMM i have literally never seen so many players with the 20k badge, It's actually become very odd to see any players in my lobby's without one. My highest damage is 2600 in just over 1k games played, how on earth does that match me with players who can deal 4k+ damage and single-handedly wipe out a third of the lobby?SBMM really does ruin it the above average to good but not ''Amazing'' player, On a whole other level. If anyone can provide clarification on what SBMM actually takes into account that would be much appreciated, if no one knows, i think it's time respawn shed some light on the matter.Another day, another rant about SBMM, trust me, i'm just as sick of hearing/thinking about it as you,I just can't help but say something.

I think you're right that the "middle man" is the victim here. I'm a below average player myself.I have played around 3700 games right now, I have around 2000 lifetime kills, Once (really once!) I got 2050 damage with Wraith, so I have the 2k Badge for Wraith.My max kills in one game is 8. I think I got this around 3 times (in this 3700 games). My lifetime K/D is 0.55, in season 3 I ended on 0.79 and now it"s 0.97 in season 4, so I do make (a little) progression. My level is 195 now. I've got around 100 lifetime wins.Yet when I play unranked, I see at least 3 predator contrails per game. I read somewhere that only 0.2% of the players is a predator. How is it possible then that I get matched up with these predators almost every time??My highest rank is Gold 1 so far. I think I can make it to Plat, but I try to avoid that because I think I will be destroyed there almost every time.I think the system gives a lot of value to your level and the total amount of games played. Also It feels like the opposition is harder when I play with my (pretty equally "skilled") friends in a premade squad.I'm for a good sbmm system, but this system is not working good enough. It seems that there are only 2 splits: or you're considered "bad" or you're considered "good", and in the second case you're matched up against the predators.Also another reason for the bad functioning of sbmm can simply be because there are to few players online, so the player base got to low and so the game cannot divide the players into the correct "category"?I still love this game but it could be even better when sbmm would work as it should: put players of (almost) equal skill in the same game.

Aaaaaand the next thread about SBMM...I am absolutely with you, that we know too little about the SBMM calculations and leveling of players!It would be helpfull if EA/Respawn explained the system in detail, to stop all speculations and maybe explain the frustraion.If the avarge player / the middle man is matched fair I cant tell, maybe you are right and the system needs some improvement there.Interresting is that you say good players are not affected by SBMM.Generally all the threads opened here say the opposite!The good players describe their K/D is lower now and they get matched against harder teams.But that is exactly what SBMM is meant for since it seperates bad players from good players.You also say bad players feel no difference because they get stomped anyways.I as a below avarage player (?) can tell you SBMM improved my winrate MASSIVELY!Before SBMM I won 1-3 matches per week. Now I have 1-3 wins each day...I barely see players with more than 1000 kills, most have 100-500 kills, and there are some with less than 100 kills.I think I get a fair chance by SBMM and I really like Apex Legends as my main shooter atm!

@Flashshark1980Respawn will never tell you what they are calculating. If they tell you that, then there is a lot of people who will find a way around. I hope they surprise me on it but i dont think so.Also you dont get the point in SBMM. I see you in every Sbmm topic and you never get to understand what we are referring to, we above average players are consistantly saying the same thing. Some of the SBMM defenders are getting matched with crazy players and some of them are admitting their mistake. I dont know if you will get to see the same thing very soon but if they dont do that you will be matched with those lobbies i assure you that.Player count is dropped badly, my 2 accounts are matched with incredibly talented people that i stand 0 chance constantly and you have seen my data.(Also the que times i am experiencing is stupid as well) Data shows exactly what they are looking into 1)Lifetime kills 2)Matches played 3) K/D. That is the only data they take into account which is unbelievably bad and stupid.The most astonishing part of this whole discussion is Respawn saying NOTHING about this whole crazyness. It seems to me that they are either working on something very big and staying quiet till season 4 or they have nothing to say but meanwhile they are loosing their community. Year is 2020, if you loose people they will only come back if everything else is worse then your game, if you stay quiet this much you ll loose everything. Look at twitch data! People are re uniting with PUBG just because Apex is so bad atm! Look at the views on Escape From Tarkov! I donno what they did but 2 days in a row they are the highest watched atm. Why? Because Apex is a very good game but the way Respawn is handling the issues is just terrible and beyond insanity.Imagine this; your boss is constantly destroying your work and improvement. The whole employees are outraging and confused.. but then you post artwork on twitter! What do you think people will think about your boss? Will they say oh i have an incredible job that i get destroyed everyday but i am cool. Or will it burn everyone down and at some point people will give up ?This morning i started very positive and started streaming. Guess what? 3 stacked preds in normal lobby. Then i said ok lets get my smurf to diamond, oh guess what? 3 cheaters in a row(2 aimbots, 1 wallhack and i have clips). So i stopped streaming, stopped playing and came back here to complain. This game is so much pain to play but also the only game i love. How much will it take to completely stop playing it? i dont know but if anything comes out that is remotely close to Apex.. I am out and i wont wait 4 months for another season and Respawns empty words "We heard our community, next time it will be better." Which for me means; we heard our community and we will do exactly what we did before.

@Flashshark1980 This is my experience as well. I still see some top tier players in matches, but it’s much less than it used to be. My K/D is up and so is my win rate. Some of that is because I got a lot better this Fall, but that may be a result of SBMM.I any case, I agree with you 100%.

@DoYaSeeMe Well if that's the case then I'm honoured the game thinks I belong in some top 1% lobby lol.But seriously though the biggest problem I see with this SBMM (that I'm still not sure if it even exists or not tbh) is that unless you're in a premade, the game does this thing where it kind of puts people into teams to fill some sort of quota so you usually have teams like one good player+ one average player+ one bad/new player etc, but those dysfunctional teams are still dumped into the same lobbies with premades and duos for the sake of fast queue times.Unless respawn releases their concurrent player counts it's hard to decide whether they're justified or deserve all the hate they're getting but ofcourse, transparency was never EA's strong suit

Why SBMM ''cuts out the middle man''

15 Replies

Flashshark1980
6 years ago
Aaaaaand the next thread about SBMM...
I am absolutely with you, that we know too little about the SBMM calculations and leveling of players!
It would be helpfull if EA/Respawn explained the system in detail, to stop all speculations and maybe explain the frustraion.
If the avarge player / the middle man is matched fair I cant tell, maybe you are right and the system needs some improvement there.
Interresting is that you say good players are not affected by SBMM.
Generally all the threads opened here say the opposite!
The good players describe their K/D is lower now and they get matched against harder teams.
But that is exactly what SBMM is meant for since it seperates bad players from good players.
You also say bad players feel no difference because they get stomped anyways.
I as a below avarage player (?) can tell you SBMM improved my winrate MASSIVELY!
Before SBMM I won 1-3 matches per week. Now I have 1-3 wins each day...
I barely see players with more than 1000 kills, most have 100-500 kills, and there are some with less than 100 kills.
I think I get a fair chance by SBMM and I really like Apex Legends as my main shooter atm!
WickXI
6 years ago
@Flashshark1980Respawn will never tell you what they are calculating. If they tell you that, then there is a lot of people who will find a way around. I hope they surprise me on it but i dont think so.

Also you dont get the point in SBMM. I see you in every Sbmm topic and you never get to understand what we are referring to, we above average players are consistantly saying the same thing. Some of the SBMM defenders are getting matched with crazy players and some of them are admitting their mistake. I dont know if you will get to see the same thing very soon but if they dont do that you will be matched with those lobbies i assure you that.

Player count is dropped badly, my 2 accounts are matched with incredibly talented people that i stand 0 chance constantly and you have seen my data.(Also the que times i am experiencing is stupid as well) Data shows exactly what they are looking into 1)Lifetime kills 2)Matches played 3) K/D. That is the only data they take into account which is unbelievably bad and stupid.

The most astonishing part of this whole discussion is Respawn saying NOTHING about this whole crazyness. It seems to me that they are either working on something very big and staying quiet till season 4 or they have nothing to say but meanwhile they are loosing their community. Year is 2020, if you loose people they will only come back if everything else is worse then your game, if you stay quiet this much you ll loose everything. Look at twitch data! People are re uniting with PUBG just because Apex is so bad atm! Look at the views on Escape From Tarkov! I donno what they did but 2 days in a row they are the highest watched atm. Why? Because Apex is a very good game but the way Respawn is handling the issues is just terrible and beyond insanity.

Imagine this; your boss is constantly destroying your work and improvement. The whole employees are outraging and confused.. but then you post artwork on twitter! What do you think people will think about your boss? Will they say oh i have an incredible job that i get destroyed everyday but i am cool. Or will it burn everyone down and at some point people will give up ?

This morning i started very positive and started streaming. Guess what? 3 stacked preds in normal lobby. Then i said ok lets get my smurf to diamond, oh guess what? 3 cheaters in a row(2 aimbots, 1 wallhack and i have clips). So i stopped streaming, stopped playing and came back here to complain. This game is so much pain to play but also the only game i love. How much will it take to completely stop playing it? i dont know but if anything comes out that is remotely close to Apex.. I am out and i wont wait 4 months for another season and Respawns empty words "We heard our community, next time it will be better." Which for me means; we heard our community and we will do exactly what we did before.
DarthVaapar
6 years ago
@Flashshark1980 This is my experience as well. I still see some top tier players in matches, but it’s much less than it used to be. My K/D is up and so is my win rate. Some of that is because I got a lot better this Fall, but that may be a result of SBMM.

I any case, I agree with you 100%.
DoYaSeeMe
6 years ago
This may not be SBMM's wrong doing. The queue needs to constantly have 60 20 bomb / 4k / Apex Predators to open a match just for them and keep them out of other lobbies. If we consider that they are like 0.2%, this would roughly translate to having a queue of 30.000 players on every server, at any time, which is pretty impossible.
Also, considering the limitations provided by queue numbers and premade party combinations, the formula becomes pretty irrelevant. Anyway, I suspect it's something really basic, like kills/ hour, maybe coupled with a few conditions like a minimum damage done, time survived, placement , xp acquired, etc..
Pretzelnutcake
6 years ago
@DoYaSeeMe Well if that's the case then I'm honoured the game thinks I belong in some top 1% lobby lol.

But seriously though the biggest problem I see with this SBMM (that I'm still not sure if it even exists or not tbh) is that unless you're in a premade, the game does this thing where it kind of puts people into teams to fill some sort of quota so you usually have teams like one good player+ one average player+ one bad/new player etc, but those dysfunctional teams are still dumped into the same lobbies with premades and duos for the sake of fast queue times.

Unless respawn releases their concurrent player counts it's hard to decide whether they're justified or deserve all the hate they're getting but ofcourse, transparency was never EA's strong suit
DoYaSeeMe
6 years ago
@Pretzelnutcake We already have queue numbers. In my matches, they're usually like 100-400 players in queue, which is a very small pool for SBMM to work properly.

If you get 10 highly skilled players in the lobby, while the rest being beginner to average, would you prefer those sweats to be coupled together and stomp everyone else in their way?
VoKks9
6 years ago
@Flashshark1980 Bad players benefit the most from SBMM, out of all players but in general i dont believe sbmm in public lobbies is the way to go, leave it in ranked. It is a BR title and there should be some randomness in it, there should be a mix of bad, good, and insane players, so you never know what is going to happen each fight. You could get destroyed or you could destroy someone, that's the beauty of a BR. The bad players have a fair chance now, so what happens when they improve and they suddenly step over the ''average'' player mark, as soon as they do they're thrown right into games with apex predators. That's my main point, SBMM is ONLY fair for the bad players, if i was being matched with players my own level then i wouldn't mind it. But the way the system is working right now anyone slightly above average is considered good enough to take on a full pre made apex predator squad, which just isn't fun. Same with good players, When i say the really good players aren't as affected, i mean the best of the best, the legit apex predators, because im an above average player and predators are getting into my game every single time and murdering the lobby, there's no way i'm on their level. It may be fairer for you, but for me and alot of other players there is no fairness in this game unless your best of the best or just bad. I'm happy it's better for you, but you can't say it's fair and justified that an above average/ good player with a max of 2600 damage and 12 kills in one game is consistently matched against insane players who can deal double the damage and get double the kills.
Flashshark1980
6 years ago
@VoKks9 wrote:
in general i dont believe sbmm in public lobbies is the way to go, leave it in ranked.
Well if ranked mode would have SBMM I would play ranked!
But the current ranked mode has nothing to do with skill...
I asked my teammates in normal mode which rank they had, most were platinum players!
Why am I as a silver rank matched against platinum players?
And why are 50% of them playing so awefull terrible?
Current ranked mode makes no sense to me, if you want to go ahead and change it!
But if ranked stays as it is and normal mode gets completely random again, I have no intention to play the game!
I want at least 1 win per evening, not 1 win per week...
In Battlefield or Counterstrike I can freely change the server if the players are to strong for me!
No problem to find a nice one to have fun on.
But here in Apex Legends I have no choice...
So I want the system to make a good choice for me.
Maybe there will be changes to SBMM which make the experience a bit better for good players...
Let's give them some time to improve!
VoKks9
6 years ago
@Flashshark1980 ''The current ranked mode has nothing to do with skill''

That's completely untrue, there would not be such a low percentage of Apex predators in the game if anyone can just get there. From bronze to platinum you're right, the skill doesn't really differ too much. But from diamond to predator it is much harder.

You want 1 win per evening? In my games i'm lucky to survive fighting 2 teams... If you get better at Apex you're seriously going to change your view on SBMM. I'm decent, but i'm not an Apex predator, i am yet to wipe out a third of the lobby, so i shouldn't be matched with people who can.

If your max kills in one game was say 5, and your max damage is say 1000, is it fair that you're put into games with people who are twice as good as you? (Not saying that's your max kills or damage, just an example).

Also ranked mode does have SBMM, it's in the form of your rank.
TwistedShadowSa
6 years ago
I'm tired.. I don't mind sbmm in ranked mode.. but every game I'm playing I'm playing against so many predators at one time.. I am not predator material.. the only reason my accuracy might seem good to apex is because I essentially sneak behind a person and empty a mag into them before they down me.. how that works I don't know but I'm tired.. I can't play this game.. I suck .. I was having alot more fun over Christmas than I am now.. I'm level 220 and everyone in my lobby is like 450+ 20kill badge 4k damage .. I've only got the 2k badge for revenant.. I've never done over 2k damage in my life and honestly think it was just a fluke.. but now I'm going against guys who can beam you with an r301 at 200m break your shields before you can even tell what's happening.. not to mention my ping sits at 180 average so now it's not just a case of be faster than the other guy.. now it's just if the first shot gets you you're dead .. because even though you got through that door way and closed the door before you were downed.. you're still technically not actually behind the door yet.. even though you are.. I'm constantly shot around corners when I shouldn't be but that .2 of a second just made the difference.. I don't have the tactics these premade predictions squads have.. I only really play randoms and ever since S4 things have just been so .. not fun.. I don't know how to get better and I'm honestly on my final tethers because it's really hit me hard just how actually ❤️❤️❤️❤️ I am at the game.. not that it's of anyone's real concern or anything I know.. but I'm done.. I'm over it.. i don't really wanna keep playing anymore..