Wraith... why another nerf?
In the upcoming patch notes it says that the phase ability will now take 1.25 seconds to activate including a 20% movement slow. Why? Wraith was in no way overpowered as a legend and this has just go...
Forum Discussion
You are missing the point my guy. We aren't saying that it being a repositioning tool is bad. Your argument of "oH bY yOUr StANdArDS lOBa wOuLD bE bAD" is also completely stupid. Sure Loba has that issue of not being able to instantly leave, but she goes 10x farther than wraith would and is super difficult to find if you aren't focusing on only the trail of the bracelet flying through the sky. Sure the 20% doesn't apply to her using her ult.
SO WHAT?!? We are supposed to use our ults in order to play wraith like she was intended to be played since day one? I have seen you in so many posts on people who talk about this unnecessary nerf and you don't seem to get why we are upset. I doubt you play wraith at all and didn't know what kind of legend she was prior to season 5. Wraith was always designed to be like a wasp. She would quickly go in for a few shots and get some damage off of someone, sometimes even a knockdown, and get the * out before she gets gunned down by an entire squad. Her tactical wasn't a "get out of jail free card" because you 1,) couldn't see your enemies 2.) you didn't go super fast in the void so you wouldn't be able to our run anything and 3.) You had this bright trail that let every single enemy know, oh wraith is gonna pop up in about 2 more seconds, lets gun her down. People like you however who just couldn't take the fact that good old Gibby wasn't able to portal out like Wraith and complained to respawn until they finally listened to you guys and made some unnecessary changes to an already okay legend. You should also mention how other legends like Lifeline now auto res with an shield that blocks out almost any type of attack besides Gibraltar/Bangalore ults and grenades. Why don't we mention how people who don't even play Wraith were saying that the nerf wasn't needed? Oh wait that's right. Players like you enjoy saying the classic "oH yOu Are MaD beCausE yOU dOnT hAve A gEt oUt of JaIL frEe cArD AnYmORe" when in reality, you still got killed if the player you were facing wasn't pre occupied by your team. Why don't we include legends like octane who move at such a fast speed that it is near impossible to hit a shot on him with a tac that comes back in 4 seconds. And sure, it does damage to octane, but the dude has auto heals so he just gets that health back in about 15 seconds.
In conclusion, All of your points are completely incorrect. We aren't mad that we cant phase out anymore. We are mad that they took a legend who was totally fine and made her the most useless legend to play as. Most wraith players now only play her because they have over 1.4k Kills with her and aren't ready to just give that up on a dime. Her Nerf was completely unwanted and is the reason why Apex isn't how it was before all of the noobs learned how to post about them complaining about dying to Wraith because they had no skill on the forums.
@Hyuugajay0515 I assume you are replying to me?
First off, this is an old thread, so some of the stuff here is possibly outdated at this point. This was from June, which might have been what, like 2 seasons or something ago? This was about the change that made Wraith’s tactical have like a full second activation time but also increased speed and stuff.
I said to treat it LIKE a Lona teleport, not actually completely compare Wraith to Loba. Wraith is better than Loba/Loba kinda sucked at that point, so it wouldn’t really work as a comparison anyway. I was comparing the abilities.
And yes, these people were complaining that using it as a repositioning tool was bad. GeekWiz515 literally said “The thing is, people (myself included, not gonna lie) Would use it if they were in any sort of danger.”
Which was exactly what the devs were trying to stop. That was what I said in the last reply.
Her tactical definitely wasn’t intended to be a “get out of jail free card”, which is why they made the change. Hence, why it couldn’t be used as that card anymore.
If you aren’t mad because Wraith couldn’t just nope out of a fight anymore, then why are you mad? The change allowed you to reposition even better than before, while also making it much more difficult to nope out of the fight like you could before. Therefore, you should have appreciated the change, and taken as more of a buff.
If you respond, please tell me exactly why you disliked this change.
First off, this is an old thread, so some of the stuff here is possibly outdated at this point. This was from June, which might have been what, like 2 seasons or something ago? This was about the change that made Wraith’s tactical have like a full second activation time but also increased speed and stuff.
I said to treat it LIKE a Lona teleport, not actually completely compare Wraith to Loba. Wraith is better than Loba/Loba kinda sucked at that point, so it wouldn’t really work as a comparison anyway. I was comparing the abilities.
And yes, these people were complaining that using it as a repositioning tool was bad. GeekWiz515 literally said “The thing is, people (myself included, not gonna lie) Would use it if they were in any sort of danger.”
Which was exactly what the devs were trying to stop. That was what I said in the last reply.
Her tactical definitely wasn’t intended to be a “get out of jail free card”, which is why they made the change. Hence, why it couldn’t be used as that card anymore.
If you aren’t mad because Wraith couldn’t just nope out of a fight anymore, then why are you mad? The change allowed you to reposition even better than before, while also making it much more difficult to nope out of the fight like you could before. Therefore, you should have appreciated the change, and taken as more of a buff.
If you respond, please tell me exactly why you disliked this change.
By the way. No. Sure this is an old thread, but it is still relevant. That's why I'm here. You also couldn't treat it like a teleport because you literally don't have the time, speed, or chance to use it to go from one place to another quickly. Loba's teleport can be used to reach supply ship faster, get the high ground, get out of the storm quickly, or just to get the hell out of a situation that you are stuck in. Wraith can do none of those things. We cant treat it like something that it was never intended to be. That is why in the old trailers, it states that it is used to get out of a situation quickly. That is like saying, "oh well people are saying that lifeline's drone is too op for healing. How about we make it so that it only helps shield instead." You couldn't just say, oh treat it like a teleport. Its not. Its an ability that was supposed to get you out of a situation in a pinch, but not have you be able to just leave a fight. As I said before, you have a trail still, you still have that long * delay, you still have that issue of not being able to pull out your weapon for a second or two after you leave the void. You still don't gain enough speed to use it to leave a fight fast. Everything said by OP was and still is an issue. I understand her hitbox change. Even I, a wraith main, can say that it was almost impossible to hit shots on a wraith that crouch spammed. However taking the one thing that made her useful and then telling everyone to just, "use it as a way to get into fights" isn't how you are supposed to nerf a legend.
The way they should have nerfed her was by 1, making her hitbox larger (which I know they did) and 2, just bringing it back to how it was in season 1 and 2. When you used it, you still had a trail, you still moved at the same speed, and you only had 3 seconds of invulnerability. Maybe they could raise the delay a bit, but the fact that you get slowed down in the process for about 1.25 seconds and are unable to shoot makes you a sitting duck. Her tactical has gotten me killed at least 4 to 5 times more than it has saved me. You cant escape certain ults anymore (crypto, Bangalore etc) and if you want to escape a caustic trap, you are sitting in there for longer because you cant run, AND, you still get slowed down in the void. At certain times, you cant even escape a grenade anymore. They have ruined a legend by nerfing them to the god damned ground and are expecting people to just say, Oh well better play someone else. No. We aren't just going to swap legends just because one got nerfed. All that does is say to respawn, yup you did good, keep it in the game forever. I was hoping that they made a better change in season 7, but they didn't.
I hate the long delay before using it, the obvious trail you have while in the void to allow enemies to pin point your location, making the entire tac useless, the super short time that you are in the void for, the delay when leaving the void, and the change to her portals. Season 5 made Wraith a useless and annoying legend to play. I didn't just stop playing wraith, but this damn nerf is gonna make me. The worst part is that you have legends like Bloodhound who were * in seasons 1-4 because of his damn kit that was just a distraction in some cases, getting such a huge buff that when he is in his ult mode, he has wallhacks for like 66% of the time because his scan lasts 4 seconds and he gets one every 6 seconds. * like that just is a big slap to the face to people who want legends buffed, but just get * on more by respawn.
Now here is the part where I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt. Respawn isn't really used to popularity like this. For a multiplayer battle royale that you made to end up being one of the most popular ones in the world is quite a challenge to manage. They even stated in the season 6 patch notes that they don't know how to give a proper nerf. They know that its hard to make a nerf that completely destroys the legend, or one that ends up being useless. So in the end, Im very pissed off about this damn nerf, but I'm not going to just stop playing because of it, because that doesn't help at all. All me and many other Wraith players are going to do is just tell Respawnto change the nerf that they made. Just because someone's pick rate is high, doesn't mean they are op. Pathfinder has a high pick rate, but could easily be shut down by Revenant's silence.
If Respawn really wanted their players to have fun, they shouldn't destroy the game just to fit one character. The Devotion being put as floor loot still is the most game breaking choice they made. There is a reason it was in Care Package. Instead of completely saying "F you player base, lets add the most op thing in the game just to suite one legend" they should have instead gave rampart a different passive. Maybe allow other guns to have that type of passive like snipers or heavy weapons. Situations like this are the reason I'm pissed about the Wraith change. People talk about how it was "too op" to have "a get out of jail free card" when 1. None of her abilities deal damage, therefore she cannot use it as such, and 2. * like making Rampart have a devotion that is stronger than the one in the Care package is just unfair. Was her tactical unfair, yes. Instead make it have to wait a bit longer (not 35 damn seconds) but maybe 29 or 30. Something to make it so that she isn't too op, but can still be a challenge to fight.
@Hyuugajay0515Okay, first off, I guess I have to explain how the Wraith phase seemed similar to Loba teleport.
A). Both Wraith and Loba have to wait relatively long times for their abilities to actually activate. (Loba’s wait is reduced if you don’t go very far, but that’s not the point.)
B). Both abilities offer increased reposition capabilities.
C). Both abilities leave a very visible trail to signify the location of the user.
In my case, I was emphasizing A, and assuming that it was relevant enough because of B and C.
Yes, you were not supposed to be able to escape everything if you hit it fast enough. That was literally the point of the nerf.
The trail is annoying, but you get numerous other advantages while in the actual phase, that simply getting behind cover towards the end is not that difficult.
She was definitely not useless in S5, many pros still used her.
Revenant’s silence is a special case, as it shuts down most characters.
How do you not understand why Wraith was op? Back in the early seasons, Wraith could literally engage, get tons of damage, and just escape with little damage. That was why she was OP. Her portal allowed people to cheese the final ring. Her tactical literally warns her when people even look at her, and her hitbox was the smallest.
Rampart isn’t even that strong, as the turret takes a long time to set up. (Crypto drone bug doesn’t count). Her walls basically have to be set up before, or else enemies can just destroy them easily.
They tried to make her not op, but it didn’t work for 4 whole seasons. They had to do something drastic.However nerfing the ability to be able to use your tac is ridiculous for a legend who doesn't go very far when using it. If you really want to compare the two, then give wraith 8 seconds in the void and is able to climb infinitely because that is the only way Wraith can be like Loba. Loba's teleport can go up on buildings and get the high ground or go super far with no chance to catch them without a pathfinder or octane jumppad.
I understand she was op in season 1-3, but it wasn't something that was impossible to catch. You could do good damage, but still get gunned down because of the trail and the fact that you move the same speed as if you were just running. If you want to talk about legends who's abilities allow for someone to do damage and just walk out, why don't we start talking about Revenant.
The dude's ult is just a more strong wraith void jump. You don't take any real damage, you can go around for 20 seconds doing whatever. You spawn back in with full shields and half health. You can murder most of the squad with no repercussions. His ult is basically your entire argument. Also lets put in some legends like pathfinder who have zero wait time and can go farther than most legends with his tactical alone.
So no. Don't compare Wraith's tactical to Loba's tactical, they aren't the same. Wraith's tac is just a dumber and weaker Loba tac with a bright trail and no way to escape any legend with a speed ability like Path, Banaglore, or octane. Her abilities are supposed to be a quick way to escape danger. Its such a clunky mess in a game that requires a fast paced attitude. In seasons 1-3 she was really good. However most of the complaints were because of her hitbox. Only the small few who played pathfinder and couldn't accept that not all legends have to be * useless for 3 seconds. Also lets explain how legends like octane and path get their ults in 1 second when wraith takes 210 seconds to use when pathfinder takes 120 seconds and gets a bonus for using using a survey beacon and octane can get his is 60 SECONDS. And don't say "oH wRaiTh CaN uSe It tO eNGaGE fIGhtS" because a reventant can just place his ult and take a zipline to get to the enemies much faster. Sure her portal exploit was annoying, but its not because of her tactical. Its like saying, "pahtfinder is op because his zipline allows you to survive a gibraltar ult" That isn't how it works. Just because some people used an exploit, it doesn't make someone op. All they needed to do was just get rid of that *. Allow the portal to only be placed outside the ring or only allow one end inside. That argument is also invalid
Ramparts tac now boots up in 3 seconds and allows someone to shoot at you with boosted damage with you unable to do so. Also lets not forget that she gets her ult in 120 seconds and her tac has a cooldown of 30 seconds and can place up to 5 walls. So yes. In most situations, rampart gets her ult so fast that she can just pull it up in the middle of a fight out of nowhere. Just because pros still use a legend, doesnt maek them op. It can be the way they feel. Wraith has really cool skins and most people are used to playing Wraith since season 0. Also lets not forget that these people most likely have an heirloom and arent ready to just say "well time to move on to another legend even though I spent $500 to get this damn thing.
Okay, first off, I guess I have to explain how the Wraith phase Is NOT similar to Loba teleport.
A). Both Wraith and Loba have to wait relatively long times for their abilities to actually activate. (Loba’s wait is reduced if you don’t go very far, but that’s not the point.) Sure this is kinda right, but Loba can actually go up faster and can be on the high ground in a few seconds.B). Both abilities offer increased reposition capabilities. On paper, they do. in practice they don't. Like I said numerous times before, Wraith cant go up very high with her tac, she cant go very far. Doing the math, most legends move at about 7.4 m/s. Wraith's tactical allows her to move 30% faster in the void which makes her move at 9.62 m/s. With an ability that only lasts 4 seconds, she can move 38.48 meters in total before she now has to wait about 2 seconds to pull out a gun. Now that sounds crazy, but isn't really until you realize that 29.6 meters with no slowdown and they can have their guns out in less than a second. Loba however can go up to 71 meters on the ground and has a delay of about 4 seconds if you wanted to go farther. Going 38 meters with her tac could allow you to be near untraceable and allows you to straight up go to the top of a building in a second.
C). Both abilities leave a very visible trail to signify the location of the user. Sure they both allow some kind of trail, but it is much easier to track a wraith in her tac as it is often used in the middle of a gun fight while Loba's can be used right before a fight to get to high ground away in a few seconds. SO sure, you can follow where she is going, but that is by looking up and not facing towards your enemies which s a major disadvantage.
Community Highlights
- EA_Mako3 months ago
Community Manager
- EA_Mako5 months ago
