It was infuriating to watch is the point of this post. They won because of two things, aim assist, and for some reason having a connection to the server that was obviously better than others.The team moved together, but other than that, they really didn't use cover well, stood in the open, didn't strafe one bit. I noticed that they were all using controllers as well, running shotguns. The one guy couldn't land a single shot with r301 a 100 meters out. Probably the worst recoil control I've seen in a very long time. However, 10 meters or closer, they couldn't miss with a shotty. This is the new meta, roller and shotgun, and it sucks frankly.Players on controllers using shotguns rarely miss up close. They just snap to people, rotate perfectly with them, and bam, guaranteed 50 dmg or more, every single shot. Aim assist is still obnoxious, and still over tuned. When most fights end up taking place in a crowed tiny area, it's nearly impossible to beat a roller player using a shotgun.The other issue is that some people are getting a different type of connection to the servers. I'm not trying to go down some conspiratorial rabbit hole, more that there's a bug in the networking that just gives some people more time to react. I know Respawn uses a lot of lag compensation in order to "balance" low ping and high ping players. So it could just boil down to that. There's an article explaining their philosophy on balancing if you want to read up on it.Getting back to the team I just watch win. It seemed like people had a hard time damaging them. They were literally walking around in the open, mind you not strafing once, and the most burst damage I'd watch them take was about 30-40 damage, tops! I'm constantly getting beamed while trying to peak teams from odd angles, and these guys just walk around like terminators, unphased by anyone shooting at them. If I'm getting shot at, I have to assume that I've already taken twice the damage that's registered so far.Lately, I'll beam someone with my favorite load-out, hit for a 100 + damage, and then they'll turn to me, and get me down to 25 health instantly, while having purple shields. Some of it's because people are cheating, but if it's always because of someone cheating, then damn, there's A LOT MORE cheaters than Respawn would like us to believe. It's been ridiculous lately.

@WhoopFighter Hey there, Xims and Cronus and other software like it such as rwasd and others are indeed considered cheating. They can earn you a ban or restrictions to play in most games that have competitive shooting and ranked.These devices emulate another. So if someone on PC is using this device they can then grant themselves aimassist with their mouse and keyboard. This is a massive disadvantage to any legit player out there and to think its not would be quite unlogical. If someone is on console using this the same deal applies they get to play on mouse and keyboard while in console lobbies granting themselves aimassist. Having many advantages over others from movement to aim. Those who use it literally are tricking the games system into thinking they have only a controller plugged in. The game then grants their device aim assist since its being tricked. You see how strong aim assist is on controller itself now imagine aim assist on mouse and key and the amount of control and power it would hold. It is 100% cheating.

@WhoopFighter Aim assist is its own entity in most fps games even in RPG games have aim assist mechanics. They are 100% needed in gaming for some games. Do I think aim assist is ok currently? I do not no, I do feel we should be allowed to opt out of console lobbies. Controllers were never a topic until crossplay came about. So with that I will say we use to be able to opt out of crossplay lobbies and they removed our ability to do so. I feel that is wrong. I want to face only PC players. The aim assist levels from PC to console are massively different. To put this in a simpler understanding for you. I suggest you try to use these very devices you think that are fine in fortnite. See what happens. =)

@WhoopFighter I see this all the time too. The players at the top right now that are winning all the matches are actually terrible at the game. They never use cover, have bad positioning, don't know how to strafe except for the fake flipping crap that requires 1000x per second key binds, and you can tell they are taking no effort at all to aim. These same players would not have made it out of rookie iv prior to season 20. Sure banning all of these people would cost them 5,000 or so players and the money they spend, but it would bring back the 1 million or so people that quit over the damage these people have done to the game.Every match I've won these last two seasons because I have one or two of these people in my party have always left me feeling dirty afterwards. A couple of times I even reported my own team members because they were using obvious cheats like one shotting through rapid fire and zero recoil (apex beam cheat) and taking no damage despite getting lit up like a disco ball.The cheater forum I found when researching this had 8,000 enrolled in the apex section (I can easily prove this), and most on there were bragging how they never get banned. I think you are right about your second point too that way more are cheating than you would think.

@reconzero I think whoopfighter may have encountered cheaters judging by the amount of people we see admitting to cheating on the internet.The AA on controller for pc is so low now I don't even notice I have it anymore. I am in the process of switching to MnK and right now I only play with it in the firing range, bot royale, and strinova just to get the mechanics down until I feel confident. (With the smaller playerbase in apex I play with the same people week after week and I don't want to upset these people by not being good enough with MnK yet.) I do notice the shooting is much more easy to be accurate on MnK than it is on controller. To me it takes a lot more effort to keep the reticle on the enemy with controller and control the recoil than it does for MnK when you just move your wrist to get rid of recoil. Also, you can tap strafe on MnK to avoid shots. My hangup on MnK has been using skills and items.Anyway, they need separate input lobbies and to crack down on cheaters. Most in the cheater forums claim they use an outside program to increase aim assist where they never miss, and I think that could be what the OP is dealing with here. With 8,000 people enrolled at that forum I think it is obvious this is out of control.If it were only controller players playing against each other without any cheats or hacks the game would be a lot more fun. I also think most of the other problems (server issues, crashing, hit reg, sbmm/eomm, etc) would all go away since they are more than likely a symptom of the same problem. Teams with no skills should not be winning so many matches, so I hope it's soon.

@WhoopFighter I dont think you could argue that aim assist is aimbot at all. Afaik they are 2 completely different things. I play on console, but i am always suprised that m&k pc players complain about aim assist. Theres no way i can compete on a controller against the range and speed of movement and response times on m&k, as an ordinary player. By the way, clarity again please, what fellow volunteer are you talking about? Thanks

Just witnessed the most bot team win

25 Replies

AymCTL
Seasoned Ace
20 days ago
@WhoopFighter I see this all the time too. The players at the top right now that are winning all the matches are actually terrible at the game. They never use cover, have bad positioning, don't know how to strafe except for the fake flipping crap that requires 1000x per second key binds, and you can tell they are taking no effort at all to aim. These same players would not have made it out of rookie iv prior to season 20. Sure banning all of these people would cost them 5,000 or so players and the money they spend, but it would bring back the 1 million or so people that quit over the damage these people have done to the game.

Every match I've won these last two seasons because I have one or two of these people in my party have always left me feeling dirty afterwards. A couple of times I even reported my own team members because they were using obvious cheats like one shotting through rapid fire and zero recoil (apex beam cheat) and taking no damage despite getting lit up like a disco ball.

The cheater forum I found when researching this had 8,000 enrolled in the apex section (I can easily prove this), and most on there were bragging how they never get banned. I think you are right about your second point too that way more are cheating than you would think.
BreadTakin
18 days ago
more like respawn terminators carrying a new player
reconzero
Seasoned Ace
16 days ago
@WhoopFighter

"Players on controllers using shotguns rarely miss up close."

Not disagreeing with much of anything you said except the above. 25 years of aa on xbox and my weapons have NEVER snapped to a target or given me any kind of a sense of confidence going into a close-quarters engagement. My accuracy is what used to be considered average, but there are no average players left in the game anymore. As you noted. I just get frustrated when everyone attributes unbeatable players to aim assist. I have had aim assist forever and I can assure you, I'm very beatable. And given all the other ways these guys seem to be cheating, is it such a stretch to believe that their aim is being helped far in excess of anything built-in aa can do?
WhoopFighter
16 days ago
@reconzero wrote:
@WhoopFighter

"Players on controllers using shotguns rarely miss up close."

Not disagreeing with much of anything you said except the above. 25 year of aa on xbox and my weapons have NEVER snapped to a target or given me any kind of a sense of confidence going into a close-quarters engagement. My accuracy is what used to be considered average, but there are no average players left in the game anymore. As you noted. I just get frustrated when everyone attributes unbeatable players to aim assist. I have had aim assist forever and I can assure you, I'm very beatable. And given all the other ways these guys seem to be cheating, is it such a stretch to believe that their aim is being helped far in excess of anything built-in aa can do?
I was the same way with a controller. Some people just have better hand mechanics for controller. That's one of the issues I have with it. You can find any mouse and keyboard to fit any sized hand correctly. Controllers in contrary only fit a certain percentage of hands well. You should try using a mouse honestly, you'll probably end up enjoying shooters a lot more. I could never go back and play shooters with a controller after switching.
When I die to someone one-clipping me, it's usually a controller player. You can watch how they rotate their character, it's smooth, there's no flicking back and forth to check blind spots. While I watch them, they just stick to targets, rotate perfectly with their opponent. So that's a problem for a multitude of reasons, it alleviates brain power, which allows them to focus more on their movement and positioning. Obviously it keeps them on target, they don't seem to be searching for a hit box, in contrast I'm crossing back and forth over my opponent searching for some hit reg. I've seen guys aim a couple feet to the side of their opponent and still get shots to register. So the hit box is there, but as a mouse player, I'm looking at the character, not their hit box. Then you have all the visual clutter on top of that, which effects a mouse user far more than a controller player.
The only solution is to separate lobbies. It's not fair, but that's the best we can do with the mentalities that have formed around aim assist given to only some, and that is somehow even?!
I've seen some people with near MnK movement on a controller, so why should they get aim assist then? If they can do anything I can on a mouse, what's the point? Anyone that's even slightly above average with a controller has the capability of one clipping a player easily. That's not easy with a mouse. There's so much prediction, no one stands still for even a millisecond in this game, 20 tick server, lag comp, stuttering, all adds up to a lot of mental stress to stay on target. I think it gets grossly underestimated how much brain power it takes for a mouse player to stay on target. People literally practice in aim trainers for days to get proficient at aiming! What controller players are doing that?
I'm sorry that you're maybe having a rough time. If I remember correctly, you're on console? If there's anyway you can try using a mouse, I highly encourage you to do so. Not just for Apex, for any shooter. It gives a more connected feeling while playing. If you don't have the thumbs to be pro with a controller, which most of us don't, using a mouse will make you a much better player. I struggled for years, grew up on console, then switched in my twenties, and I became the player to beat amongst my friends.
OldTreeCreeper
Hero+
16 days ago
@WhoopFighter wrote:
If I remember correctly, you're on console? If there's anyway you can try using a mouse, I highly encourage you to do so.

I struggled for years, grew up on console, then switched in my twenties, and I became the player to beat amongst my friends.

‐-------------------------------------------------

@WhoopFighter

I hope you are suggesting a switch from console to PC, and not a way to use m&k on a console, which would attract a ban.
WhoopFighter
16 days ago
@OldTreeCreeperWas that really necessary? Maybe a little over zealous today?

Maybe they have a friend, sister, wife, or a brother that's has a PC they could try? Personally I don't see a problem with using a xim as a way to use MnK on console, but that's just my opinion, and not one I stated in this thread, until now. Nor is that what I suggested. They are an adult and can make their own decisions.

I'm on PC, so I don't know the TOS for console, but I doubt that would actually get you banned. Not really my concern though, is it?
Wargasmatron
Rising Adventurer
16 days ago
Any form of 3rd party software is considered cheating.
And that means for all the clowns running and gunning with their macros on a mouse, using xims or cronus packs, yes...that means you are hacking the game.
Read the terms of service etc etc etc. 99% of players don't and have no clue.
WhoopFighter
16 days ago
@WargasmatronCool, can you all stop derailing the conversation now? This wasn't a discussion about using outside software for Apex.

Thanks.
OldTreeCreeper
Hero+
16 days ago
@WhoopFighter wrote:

Some of it's because people are cheating, but if it's always because of someone cheating, then damn, there's A LOT MORE cheaters than Respawn would like us to believe. It's been ridiculous lately.

As far as I can see there has been no derailment. Your opening post allowed for a fairly wide discussion.

Thanks for clarifying you meant a move to pc rather than cheating.
reconzero
Seasoned Ace
16 days ago
@WhoopFighter

First, 100% yes, lobbies need desperately to be segregated.

"When I die to someone one-clipping me, it's usually a controller player. You can watch how they rotate their character, it's smooth, there's no flicking back and forth to check blind spots. While I watch them, they just stick to targets, rotate perfectly with their opponent. So that's a problem for a multitude of reasons, it alleviates brain power, which allows them to focus more on their movement and positioning. Obviously it keeps them on target, they don't seem to be searching for a hit box, in contrast I'm crossing back and forth over my opponent searching for some hit reg. I've seen guys aim a couple feet to the side of their opponent and still get shots to register. So the hit box is there, but as a mouse player, I'm looking at the character, not their hit box. Then you have all the visual clutter on top of that, which affects a mouse user far more than a controller player."

When I read the above paragraph I didn't feel like I was reading a description of anything that happens when I try to shoot someone. It read like a description of an aimbot. An actual bought-and-paid-for cheat.

Then again, later on when you described the relative effects of aa with an average player vs. a player with already good aim... that rang true as well. Of course, the problem there is when a majority of average players are asked to give something up in order to prevent the 5% from abusing it... well, that sounds extreme. Another argument in favor of input-based lobbies.

You've made me very curious about the mechanics of a mouse and keyboard, but I have to admit that the roadblocks are too big and too numerous. I'm Mac, not pc. Problem number one. I'm a muscle memory player (as I suppose we all are to some degree) so I feel like the learning curve would be STEEP. That's problem two. And number three is: I'm just plain too old to have to re-invent the wheel at this point. And honestly, when I go into the firing range, set everything up to max difficulty and have at it... my accuracy is good by almost any standard, and my ability to shoot and kill without dying is also insanely good. Obviously "good against remotes is one thing" is a true statement. The firing range at its most difficult doesn't even begin to simulate what you find in bronze/silver lobby on a good day. But it tells me that my aim is less of a problem than how I feel about my aim.

All in all, good advice. And who knows? Maybe someone will give me a pc and I'll have an excuse to try it out.