Do you know what happens when after 45 mins I don't get a single kill and eveyrone never misses and I'm just smoked game after game after game.... I play something else.Please fix your match making. Yesterday it was fine and I felt like I was "in it" win or lose a fight. Today... I basically need not have bothered as every fight was going to end the same as I was just simply out classed over and over again. Nobody misses. Ever. Give me a reason to play that. Sell it to me.I get people are far better than me at the game. Please stop putting them in my lobbies. A total waste of time.

@reconzero The short answer: the developers are incompetent. In one way or another.The long answer: the matchmaking is not perfect! Otherwise there wouldn't be constant complaints in the forum that players are constantly being killed by Predators/Masters or that the matchmaking apparently only knows two extremes: ok/easy or really hard/unfair.For me, these three points are no reason why the matchmaker does such a poor job at times.Point 1: as a rule, the next server is used. This changes the group of players on the server, but not the matchmaking, or it shouldn't.To point 2: why? Why should the players be split up into playlists? Because of the game mode the player wants to play? The mode is chosen by the player.Point 3: This is exactly where matchmaking fails. "Arbitrary" is a good keyword.I'll link to another post in which I expressed my thoughts on matchmaking:https://answers.ea.com/t5/Spielinformationen/Bots-Es-gibt-sie-wirklich-und-auch-die-Bot-Lobby/m-p/13537506#M15494 Here's the translation to the part that fits quite well here:"I repeat my earlier assessment: with a really good matchmaking system, not only would bots be unnecessary, but cheaters would also be tradable.I'm not a pro, but I would try a "metric" between 0.1 and 10 (0.0 would be a bot; 10.1 would be god mode). The metric would be calculated from the most important and meaningful stats of the players. I haven't thought about exactly how to calculate this key figure and which stats to use. But that's not the topic here at the moment (and other forum members in the German or English forum have already suggested which stats you could use).If you now sort the list of players according to their metric, you get a list of players whose metric go up or down.And then, from 10 downwards, 60 "packs" are always sent into the ring. Starting from 0.1 is certainly also possible. This way, the variance of the players' key figures in a BR round should be as small as possible. And I'll just say that it would also feel fairer and more fun for most players.It would at least have the effect that all cheaters would quickly be among themselves and it shouldn't be possible for bronze/silver/gold players to meet master/predator players en masse. The only negative effect I can think of at the moment would be that the "Predator" and "Master" ranks would have practically no meaning, because only cheaters can actually achieve them. Unless you update your anti-cheat system..."Each player then has "their" skill score, which changes slightly after each match (based on the statistics of the respective player).The brick wall effect would also exist here, BUT the crucial question is: how do the games feel until then and at the end?A few good games and then a long period of total annihilation after 10 seconds? Or almost always an interesting, close game, with a few kills, in which you also lost, but didn't feel like you were playing against a superhuman with no chance?I much prefer the second type of game, and that's exactly the type that used to exist in the past (up to S12 in my opinion).

@Nolege_is_power The issue with pred/streamer 20 kill high damage games you see on YouTube is that it is misleading. You don't see the 6 to 8 hours of game time it took for them to get that one game. You don't see all the drop and die or drop, win the first couple fights and then die. The reality is that 20 bomb high damage game on YouTube usually comes after some really bad games when the MM puts them in a slightly lower lobby and circumstances play out just right(good drop loot, no 3rd party death, people spread out just enough to keep killing).

@saurerDropsXXL"BUT the crucial question is: how do the games feel until then and at the end?A few good games and then a long period of total annihilation after 10 seconds? Or almost always an interesting, close game, with a few kills, in which you also lost, but didn't feel like you were playing against a superhuman with no chance?"Very well put. I've said many times that it isn't whether you win or lose in a game. It's HOW you lose that sends people into fits of rage. But that's something I'm much more willing than you to put down to "the random and meaningless nature of the universe." Rather than evil or lazy matchmakers at Respawn. Although I have to admit that could still be the case. I don't think it is, but it could be.

@Airish85"So as an average player I feel like my playing is predetermined...."You nailed it here, although I would say that you don't even have to bring eomm (or even sbmm) into it at all. This is simply the nature of soloing any team-based game. If the matchmaking were completely random, I don't think the experience would be materially different. Could be wrong. Might not be. Who knows?"Assumption of person playing ranked to achieve a certain rank and rigging game so that he plays as much as possible to gain it is what annoys me."And there it is again. Perfect observation. The game wants you to KEEP PLAYING and therefore your rank grind will, by design, last as long as they can possibly make it last without having an effect on churn. There are so many other compelling reasons to turn one's back on the rank grind, but this alone would be enough for me to never set foot on a rank ladder ever again.@HappyHourSumwur"In some cases I get carried and am obviously dead weight that my masters/pred teammates have to revive over and over again. That's almost worse than getting destroyed immediately in humiliating fashion."This is, in a nutshell, the problem with these wide skill range matches. You're expected to carry two low-skill teammates, or you're expected to have two masters drag you into one untenable situation after another, constantly scraping you up off the floor. The first situation I'll tolerate poorly, but the second will usually drive me to quit in the lobby. I don't want to watch them doing ten things per engagement that look like pure cheatery, and I also don't want to be babysat, especially if they have an attitude about it. And they ALWAYS have an attitude about it. I think it was @hayhor who once told the story of his two stack predator teammates who said, paraphrasing here, "Be quiet and try to keep up." And his response was, as I recall, exactly what mine would have been: "Here, watch how quiet I can be... as I quit on your sorry a**."---------------------I'll end this with the same call to the developer I've been making practically since the game launched: stop pretending to match on skill, which is far more theory than actuality, and start matching on playstyle. I would despise the wide skill ranges a lot less if my teammates were at least on the same page as me concerning match goals and strategies.

@Asmodeus566 Hey man! Hope you guys have been well around these parts, lol.

Match Making | EA Forums

32 Replies

HappyHourSumwur
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
@RockDokRockCan't agree with you more. Took a break last week and am not jumping back in anytime soon for this specific reason. Getting melted for hours by enemies that never miss and know exacrly where you are at all times is not fun. Matchmaking doesn't seem to make any adjuatments and keeps throwing you into the meat grinder over and over again. It is one of the worst gaming experiences of all time in a game that gives you the best gaming experience of all time way too infrequently.
RockDokRock
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
@HappyHourSumwurIt's just so inconsistent. You can log on and have a great 2 hour session. You feel like you are in most conflicts, sometimes you get wiped due to bad decision making and sometimes you have a bit of luck your way and win the scrap. You'll have another one the next day and it's totally different where if anyone sees you you are instantly dead. Over and over. I just don't get the inconsistency. That's what does my head in.

We tried again last night, I don't think we made it past 25 mins and we just had enough. I'm just tired of being a free K/D pill for others. I've always suspected the people who flex their amazing K/D's is largely because they are going up against inferior players. Not really the flex they think it is.
I do empathise with EA. Match making is an incredibly difficult and complex task with different types of people on at different times of the day, wanting to ensure it's fast enough so you dont't sit at the match making screen and constantly trying to outwit the toxic part of the community that will do everything they can to rig the system in their favour (so they cant' release a granular level of detail as to what is going on as that would aid them). It's a very hard problem to fix, I get that.
Nolege_is_power
2 years ago
Ranked s20. I noticed a huge difference between lobbies inside same rank.
It seems like they have 2 modes inside ranked games also unranked duos and trios, which are switching based on how well you do. If you are kicking it, it will not be long before you will be moved to sweaty lobbies. There, it is a struggle to get even a kill, because opponents are insanely skilled, possibly cheaters. Based on what i've seen, atm in these lobbies, everyone feels levels above me, Gold now is more difficult than your average Pred. stream opponents on twitch/yt. Streamer pred games look like an easy joke.

How is this even possible?

I'm beginning to think well known pred streamers have some hidden easy mode, where majority of opponens are clueless, so landing 20kills and 4k dmg is a piece of cake for them, which would also be good for viewers not leaving their streams.
I always ranted about how clueless opponents are in those pred lobbies, while your average gold servers here in EU, has so many movement gods, it just looks same or more difficult than pro matches or tournaments with the best teams.

Care to elaborate why this happens, and why such a difference between these ''normal' and 'superskill/cheater' lobbies inside LOW Level ranks? This should not happen.
RockDokRock
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
Just tried again this evening with my wife. I think we playd 7 or 8 games... had one reasonable one. The last one the champion had 50,000 kills, 20 kill bomb badge... just quit before we landed. I'm done for today. I honestly have no idea how they could be in my lobby. That should be a hard limit. Ridiculous. Zero reason to play that one.
I'd rather just not have a match or a game start than have to put up with that. End result (today), 2 fewer people playing.
I am so tired of this sort of thing happening. It should *never* happen, not a mis-match like that.
saurerDropsXXL
2 years ago
I firmly believe that objective matchmaking is possible, as long as it is truly and only based on the statistics of each individual player. Even with cheaters, good rounds should be possible for everyone.
But since the cheaters and pro players don't just seem to play among themselves, but also poach at lower skill levels, something must be interfering with "objective" matchmaking.
However, I am also firmly convinced that after 20 seasons (!) the algorithm for matchmaking should actually be perfect IF all disruptive factors were removed. And here is the problem. I think the disruptive factors are there for a reason. And suddenly it's no longer possible for the developers to ensure proper matchmaking? Despite or because of the disruptive factors?
!!!Attention, pure speculation from here on!!!
There is supposed to be a patent on the fact that buyers of skins get an easier lobby to give them a better buying experience.
Since I have no proof of this, I will not claim that this "disruptive factor" is active in Apex. But, if such patents already exist, one can imagine that various curious mechanisms can prevent objective matchmaking.
!!!End of speculation!!!
RockDokRock
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
@saurerDropsXXL I refuse to buy into the conspiracy theory angle. I can't see any reason why they would do that intentionally. I used to play FIFA alot and there are tons of conspiracy theories around that as well. I genuinely believe they try to give us the best experience they can but it's a hard problem. I feel like something has been tweaked in the last week or two and it's broken again.
huginn123
New Scout
2 years ago
It’s hard to play this game nowadays with all the rampant cheating when they have zero recoil they don’t miss a shot and the controller mod is so cheap. Everybody’s buying it when you hear him on single fire sound like a machine gun. It’s obviously noticeable that they have a rapper fire controller with zero recoil, I’ve taken a hiatus on this. I used to love playing this game and like everybody else I would win some and lose some but now it’s gotten so slimy.
reconzero
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
@saurerDropsXXL

"However, I am also firmly convinced that after 20 seasons (!) the algorithm for matchmaking should actually be perfect IF all disruptive factors were removed."

You're so close.

The algorithm is perfect. The problem isn't any conspiracy, it isn't a vast pool of cheaters gumming up the works, it isn't even an army of smurfs pretending to be something they're not. It's just the imperfections of reality.

At any given moment the matchmaker has to:

1. divide the player base by server.
2. divide the players on a given server by at least three different playlists, sometimes more.
3. divide the players on a given server, in a specific playlist, by some arbitrary definition of skill.

Assuming you're after "perfect" matchmaking, you have to assume that at any time of day or night, in any geographic region, and in any chosen playlist, there are enough players of equal skill to fill a 60 player lobby. Oh, and all of this has to happen in a matter of a minute or two.

Not possible. It's not a conspiracy. It's math. With a little eomm thrown in for good measure. But even eomm is greatly overblown as a determining factor in the ease or difficulty of a lobby. Or so says me.

In the end I really believe that very small differences in "skill," or even in tactics and strategies, can yield situations on the battlefield that feel like complete blowouts. One of the downsides of sbmm is that we tend to rise to our skill level and then not really progress mechanically. Then, when the matchmaker throws you into a higher skill lobby, it doesn't have to be that much higher in order to feel as if you're playing a completely different game against unbeatable players. It's the brick wall effect, and almost everyone experiences it, even once in a while the best players.

There are ways around the wall, but they tend to be as un-fun as getting slaughtered by predators. The only one that most players try is the one where you stop playing for a few weeks. Anecdotally, players coming back after a break almost always report an easy day or two of gameplay before the hardship sets in again. That's not my way of dealing with it, but it's the easiest. And sometimes a break is a good thing regardless of the reason.
hayhor
Hero
2 years ago
@Nolege_is_power The issue with pred/streamer 20 kill high damage games you see on YouTube is that it is misleading. You don't see the 6 to 8 hours of game time it took for them to get that one game. You don't see all the drop and die or drop, win the first couple fights and then die. The reality is that 20 bomb high damage game on YouTube usually comes after some really bad games when the MM puts them in a slightly lower lobby and circumstances play out just right(good drop loot, no 3rd party death, people spread out just enough to keep killing).
saurerDropsXXL
2 years ago
@reconzero
The short answer: the developers are incompetent. In one way or another.
The long answer: the matchmaking is not perfect! Otherwise there wouldn't be constant complaints in the forum that players are constantly being killed by Predators/Masters or that the matchmaking apparently only knows two extremes: ok/easy or really hard/unfair.
For me, these three points are no reason why the matchmaker does such a poor job at times.
Point 1: as a rule, the next server is used. This changes the group of players on the server, but not the matchmaking, or it shouldn't.
To point 2: why? Why should the players be split up into playlists? Because of the game mode the player wants to play? The mode is chosen by the player.
Point 3: This is exactly where matchmaking fails. "Arbitrary" is a good keyword.
I'll link to another post in which I expressed my thoughts on matchmaking:https://answers.ea.com/t5/Spielinformationen/Bots-Es-gibt-sie-wirklich-und-auch-die-Bot-Lobby/m-p/13537506#M15494
Here's the translation to the part that fits quite well here:
"I repeat my earlier assessment: with a really good matchmaking system, not only would bots be unnecessary, but cheaters would also be tradable.
I'm not a pro, but I would try a "metric" between 0.1 and 10 (0.0 would be a bot; 10.1 would be god mode). The metric would be calculated from the most important and meaningful stats of the players. I haven't thought about exactly how to calculate this key figure and which stats to use. But that's not the topic here at the moment (and other forum members in the German or English forum have already suggested which stats you could use).
If you now sort the list of players according to their metric, you get a list of players whose metric go up or down.
And then, from 10 downwards, 60 "packs" are always sent into the ring. Starting from 0.1 is certainly also possible. This way, the variance of the players' key figures in a BR round should be as small as possible. And I'll just say that it would also feel fairer and more fun for most players.
It would at least have the effect that all cheaters would quickly be among themselves and it shouldn't be possible for bronze/silver/gold players to meet master/predator players en masse. The only negative effect I can think of at the moment would be that the "Predator" and "Master" ranks would have practically no meaning, because only cheaters can actually achieve them. Unless you update your anti-cheat system..."
Each player then has "their" skill score, which changes slightly after each match (based on the statistics of the respective player).
The brick wall effect would also exist here, BUT the crucial question is: how do the games feel until then and at the end?
A few good games and then a long period of total annihilation after 10 seconds? Or almost always an interesting, close game, with a few kills, in which you also lost, but didn't feel like you were playing against a superhuman with no chance?
I much prefer the second type of game, and that's exactly the type that used to exist in the past (up to S12 in my opinion).