Re: Cheating is out of hand Season 21

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@apetitiporkill wrote:
@damsonwhufndthisthe problem is not the control with AIM ASSIST, the problem is the MOUSE AND KEYBOARD players with AIM ASSIST.

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Nah, the problem IS the Aim Assist. It's over tuned. Try using reWASD for yourself. It's not fun, and it doesn't work like a regular mouse. It emulates a controller stick to the mouse.

People using Xim or reWASD are not the problem. Cheaters are the problem. People using macros are the problem.

@BallisticMVPSeveral people on here have corroborated everything I'm saying, it's not just me. One person said "it has been an ongoing issue" in another thread yesterday about the damage not registering problem. Another player announced on here he was quitting last week and cited the exact same issues I did. Ridiculous claims? Yes. Untrue? No.

Maybe you haven't had our experiences in the game, but a large number of people have. Could be you play on a different platform than those having these issues are.

One more thing, I'm not just someone that's salty from losing.  I won two matches in pubs this week.  So, yes, I've learned to adapt to the issues, but they are still there,  and I win far fewer matches than when season 20 began.

@apetitiporkill  same thing different abuser, I was more talking about cheaters no matter how mild their cheats are I'd almost factor basic aim-assist from console aswell

@VersusGravity  if they're not the problem why do they use those? curious

Also if you factor in how servers may or may not pick up player movement due to ping, and you've got yourself an unfair advantage, a player with aim-assist is more likely to hit their shots because the server's ping can be mitigated, hits that should have missed are hits because players can use aim-assists or worse, and obviously the devs don't care which is the saddest part

Haven't really seen anything especially suspecious on console Mixtape so far. I'm probably the one getting reported there anyway. Just an iffy movement here, and a suspecious beamage there. Most of the time I go "whaaat" after a beamage, I see the guy on KC with a R301, and I go "okay, fair enough".

Edit: LOL That didn't work out well. Just had three reports in the next game. Took aimbot, but might just have been recoil. Hard to see when KC doesn't start earlier in the events leading up to the shooting and their reticle is already on me.

Two Xbox'ers and one PS.

PS. Remove abandon penalty. I get 10 minutes for leaving total cheater lobby. Great.

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@damsonwhufndthis wrote:

@apetitiporkill  same thing different abuser, I was more talking about cheaters no matter how mild their cheats are I'd almost factor basic aim-assist from console aswell

@VersusGravity  if they're not the problem why do they use those? curious

Also if you factor in how servers may or may not pick up player movement due to ping, and you've got yourself an unfair advantage, a player with aim-assist is more likely to hit their shots because the server's ping can be mitigated, hits that should have missed are hits because players can use aim-assists or worse, and obviously the devs don't care which is the saddest part

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Xim and reWASD are just emulators. They don't allow you to do anything that's not already in the game. Your mouse is constrained by the in game sensitivity for controllers. Controllers and mice work much differently on how you turn yourself in game. With a Controller, you hit the full deflection of the stick, and then you turn. With a mouse, you just swipe. So when you emulate a controller to a mouse, it doesn't feel like a regular mouse. It's not nearly big advantage as people are making it out to be.

What bothers me about this, is that the REAL problem is Aim Assist being over-tuned. Every FPS game now has such a ridiculous amount of assist. If someone is willing to give up native mouse input, trying to emulate a controller just to get assist, then you know something is wrong. I've used a Xim in the past, and it only feels okay in a couple of games, Apex not being one of them.

I have to stress, it can't do anything a Controller can't do. In fact, if you're decent with a mouse or controller, I'd highly recommend using a native controller over tying to use a Xim. You will be more accurate with that.

I totally agree that Aim Assist will help with low frame rates, visual clutter, bad server performance, because it's looking for hit boxes and not character models. It also alleviates stress from having to focus so intently with a mouse. Aim Assist will allow you to make better decision making because of that. When aiming with a mouse, you're using a lot of brain power on just tracking an enemy. That takes away processing power for other things.

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@damsonwhufndthis wrote:
@VersusGravityI would like to simply come back to the reason, if the aim assist or emulation of controller on mouse feels bad, why do people use it over mouse, it makes no sense why would they use it, if it feels bad or if it didn't work, but they use it, and not just in Apex, in other games too

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That's my point, people aren't really using them for Apex. It's a nonissue. The much bigger problem is people using cheats and macros.

Controller emulators CAN NOT do anything other then what a regular controller can do. The only difference is that some people are more comfortable using a MnK. Like I said before, if you're decent with both, then a native controller will be the better option over a mouse with an emulator.

@VersusGravity  I think you're missing the mark, why would someone emulate controller on their mouse? for the nostalgia? no

@damsonwhufndthisI don't think you're grasping this... it's not a widespread issue like you guys are claiming it to be. There aren't a bunch of people doing this. Try it for yourself, it sucks. It's not like you get to use whatever DPI and sens that you want to. If you move your mouse too fast, it messes up. Emulators suck for Apex.

A NATIVE CONTROLLER IS BETTER THEN AN EMULATOR. THE PROBLEM IS OVER-TUNED AIM ASSIST. Agree to disagree, but stop glazing over my point and completely ignoring it. Refute it with something if you're going to bother responding. Say something other then "you don't get it".

People having ridiculously good aim in Apex either practice a lot, or they could be using an aim bot. What they're not doing is using a Xim. Macros on the other hand are an issue. A controller player with a Cronus is a much more prevalent issue. I hear people talking about how others they know are using it, so then why shouldn't I? That's in game chat in ranked matches! And why shouldn't they? The Honor system?!

I want Respawn and EA to focus on the real issues, and not chase some boogeyman BS of emulators. Cheating, Aim Assist, and Macros need to be dealt with first and foremost.

It is a combination of all these things.  Completely ineffective anti cheat, no controls against smurfing, over tuned aim assist, sketchy net code and hit detection, and arguably the worst matchmaking of any MMFPS in history.

IMO, Apex is what it is due to gross neglect by Respawn & EA.

They keep pumping out new legends, collection events, LTM's, & maps while ignoring the core issues making it increasingly unplayable for the average gamer.

@reconzeroRespawn's approach to community relations ever since they freaked out over death threats by some weirdos out there (understandable to freak out over that but not representative of most gamers) has been to talk to a few streamers and pros and do what they say. Average Joe gets sacrificed on the alter of Twitch and YouTube content.

@damsonwhufndthis Aim assist is not closely related to this topic (as it is not considered to be cheating, but some do call it "legal cheating", true enough). I tend to LMFAO when controller players defending it, calling the MNK input being outdated and inferior while they literally need to rely on computer assisted target acquisition to dominate MNK players 🙂 Controllers were invented to serve a single purpose: you being able to play while sitting on your couch (or anywhere else where there is no flat surface available at arm's length). They were never intended to replace and/or displace MNK in computer gaming. They serve a good purpose and in some game genres they might even be preferable over MNK input while the FPS genre in general definitely not being one of those 🙂 It is just not possible to adjust cursor movement with adequate precision using your thumbs to measure up to a proven technology where you are using your whole arm to make the adjustments. There is a reason why we do not use controllers in productive/creative work, just imagine trying to create a 3D model or even a basic drawing with 2 thumb sticks 🙂 It's ridiculous.

And no, I do not want controllers or even aim assist banned from APEX. I support the idea for people being able to play whatever input they prefer. On a different post I have proposed a very simple solution: just take the median (not the average) of KDR of all MNK players and controller players: if controller players are doing better in general, then nerf AA, if MNK players are doing better then boost it, very simple, very efficient. But of course Respawn would be facing an outcry from the controller community the minute it happened. Remember when AA was adjusted _by developer mistake_ a few years back (and in the wrong direction for the controller guys 🙂)? Man, the amount of tears shed on forums afterwards could create oceans on the Moon 🙂

@RaginSamThat ignores economics though. There are way more console controller players than PC MnK players and therefore more money to be made making controller players happy. As a PC MnK player I'm OK with that, but I don't like it when they cater to controller players too much. Apex currently does with overturned AA and it ticks me off. Not anywhere near as much as cheaters and smurfs do, but getting lasered in a CQB by a roller player feels bad.

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@HappyHourSumwur wrote:

@RaginSamThat ignores economics though. There are way more console controller players than PC MnK players and therefore more money to be made making controller players happy. As a PC MnK player I'm OK with that, but I don't like it when they cater to controller players too much. Apex currently does with overturned AA and it ticks me off. Not anywhere near as much as cheaters and smurfs do, but getting lasered in a CQB by a roller player feels bad.

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Pick a lane brother, you’re all over the road! Lol

I don’t want to derail this thread, but just a response… 

If people are generally decent with either input device, in my experience, they’ll usually end on a controller because it’s easier to be consistent. That already there skews the statistics in my opinion. So what would be MnK players are now using rollers to be more competitive. 

You are correct about “economics”. It’s about sales and getting people to buy skins. However, the gaming is trying to portray itself as a “competitive shooter”, which it fundamentally is not. The problem again is that competitive historically means it’s trying to fair. In my opinion it fails by giving one input device assisted tracking. 

Back to the topic, the game is infested with cheats. It feels like every other round has either a cheater or a duo of cheaters working together. People still wonder why people Smurf in this game? It’s because past a certain time, I live near a very big populated city, the game is unplayable. Sometimes it could be something is up with the lag compensation or it’s players just cheating.

Wall hacks are definitely the most common.