Last night me and a couple friends won multiple times against people that were struggling.Tonight it was nothing but predators and super teams and we were the ones struggling until the game put us in a lobby where we were champions after being 4th place. Yeah we won that one pretty easily 😂I have always felt the sbmm was a short term algorithm, much like fifa's wl, rivals or old divs.

@hayhor Yes, SBMM needs to be dynamic, otherwise it would become boring and pointless.

@hayhor Because they don't understand it.

@hayhor I must be completely honest with you— I’m not sure it’s ENTIRELY short term.I have created several accounts to study how the SBMM works in Apex. Here is what I found:The two main accounts I will focus on is my main account (with good stats) and my dumpster account (intentionally bad stats; I even purposely tanked my accuracy just in case the system was using it for SBMM).For my good account, my pubs are absolutely grueling and literally filled with like 85-90% Diamond trails, 5% Pred trails, and about 5% no trails. These games require MLG level focus (I played semi-pro Halo 12 years ago so I recognize the intensity). As an experiment, I intentionally hot dropped and got wiped with my premade squad. Our goal was to see how long it would take for the algorithm to place us in “weaker” lobbies. Unfortunately, we didn’t see any real relief (based on contrails) until about our 36th loss.36!!! And even then, we were no longer seeing pred trails but the lobby was about half diamond trails and half no contrails.Now on my dumpster account, I had intentionally lost close to 100 games, keeping my damage below 200 each game. You know how you get bad teammates when you cue solo? I thought I would be that for someone else but the lobbies were exclusively all low skilled players every single match. No pred trails and no diamond trails. So then I started the next phase of the experiment and started playing seriously on that account. I played three consecutive games and got 17, 21, and 22 kills respectively (forgive me low skilled players, it’s for science!). On the 4th game played, I was placed into a lobby with several diamond and some pred trails.Conclusion:There is more work to be done but it SEEMS like the SBMM algorithm takes longer to “derank” you (place you in a weaker lobby) than it takes to bump you up into stronger lobbies. I was getting zero damage and getting wiped for more than 30 games straight and that algorithm still placed me in insane public lobbies. And it took 3 super strong games to shoot me into lobbies with good competition.

@Axs5626Sxa5001 I suspect the same, SBMM is matchmaking based on "PERFORMANCE" of previous games , NOT your STATS so it's Dynamic.When I said that, people ignore and don't believe.Now you've done your RESEARCH, I give you HP for GREAT WORK and SACRIFICE (your main account KDR...RIP) !

@DoYaSeeMe I agree but why do people keep citing kd ratio, rank and level when complaining about it?

Tonight is proof sbmm is short term based

13 Replies

DoYaSeeMe
6 years ago
@hayhor Yes, SBMM needs to be dynamic, otherwise it would become boring and pointless.
hayhor
Hero
6 years ago
@DoYaSeeMe I agree but why do people keep citing kd ratio, rank and level when complaining about it?
apostolateofDOO
6 years ago
@hayhor Because they don't understand it.
hayhor
Hero
6 years ago
@apostolateofDOOM Amazing really
Axs5626Sxa5001
6 years ago
@hayhor I must be completely honest with you— I’m not sure it’s ENTIRELY short term.

I have created several accounts to study how the SBMM works in Apex. Here is what I found:

The two main accounts I will focus on is my main account (with good stats) and my dumpster account (intentionally bad stats; I even purposely tanked my accuracy just in case the system was using it for SBMM).

For my good account, my pubs are absolutely grueling and literally filled with like 85-90% Diamond trails, 5% Pred trails, and about 5% no trails. These games require MLG level focus (I played semi-pro Halo 12 years ago so I recognize the intensity). As an experiment, I intentionally hot dropped and got wiped with my premade squad. Our goal was to see how long it would take for the algorithm to place us in “weaker” lobbies. Unfortunately, we didn’t see any real relief (based on contrails) until about our 36th loss.

36!!! And even then, we were no longer seeing pred trails but the lobby was about half diamond trails and half no contrails.

Now on my dumpster account, I had intentionally lost close to 100 games, keeping my damage below 200 each game. You know how you get bad teammates when you cue solo? I thought I would be that for someone else but the lobbies were exclusively all low skilled players every single match. No pred trails and no diamond trails. So then I started the next phase of the experiment and started playing seriously on that account. I played three consecutive games and got 17, 21, and 22 kills respectively (forgive me low skilled players, it’s for science!). On the 4th game played, I was placed into a lobby with several diamond and some pred trails.

Conclusion:
There is more work to be done but it SEEMS like the SBMM algorithm takes longer to “derank” you (place you in a weaker lobby) than it takes to bump you up into stronger lobbies. I was getting zero damage and getting wiped for more than 30 games straight and that algorithm still placed me in insane public lobbies. And it took 3 super strong games to shoot me into lobbies with good competition.
DarthValtrex
Hero (Retired)
6 years ago
@Axs5626Sxa5001That seems about right, it seems to rake between 20-30 games to see a demotion in lobbies. But go on a 3-4 game win streak with 1500+ damage rounds and you’ll start seeing a lot more diamond/pred trails. I also think it depends on the team. When I play with one of my high skill friends we are frequently in the lobbies that have a few pred trails, few diamonds and healthy amount of no trails. I believe those are the lobbies that are players who fall some place between, above average and some place below elite. How ever when we add a third high skill player we are instantly dropped into high skill lobbies which almost always have Premade predator badged champs and quite a few diamond trails.

If I was more consistent with my numbers I’m sure we’d be in the harder lobbies more frequently. But I’m very streaky with skill/numbers. I also rarely have average rounds. I’m either doing really good or really bad.

you can definitely notice the difference in high skill lobbies. Everyone is using the best guns, legends and so on.
asukojo
6 years ago
@Axs5626Sxa5001 I suspect the same, SBMM is matchmaking based on "PERFORMANCE" of previous games , NOT your STATS so it's Dynamic.
When I said that, people ignore and don't believe.
Now you've done your RESEARCH, I give you HP for GREAT WORK and SACRIFICE (your main account KDR...RIP) !
asukojo
6 years ago
I think the reason they make going down much much slower than going up, to make sure player doesn't low ball to get content/badge/stats:
1. Good player want to get 20 bomb and 4K damage but struggling to get it on his current performance.
2. Purposely hot drop and die few times without any damage to get to low performance lobby.
3. Wreck low performance lobby to get 20 bomb & 4K damage.
PROInD3
6 years ago
Just make people be able to choose between SBMM and MM boom we have a easy solution....
DoYaSeeMe
6 years ago
@PROInD3 Each additional play choice splits the playerbase, so it's not OK. SBMM needs the queues to be big enough in order to be able to fill the lobbies for each skill bracket without a long waiting time, reducing those queues to half would make it inefficient, affecting those who want SBMM.

@asukojo I think some of the longterm stats may be used in the formula, like games / hours / seasons played, overall win rate and k/d ratio, etc.. They may use this to detect whether you're actually struggling or just faking it to get down on easy prey. Also, I think they may check the hardware id to detect smurfs in order to keep them out of the easy lobbies when possible.