Will they ever fix season 18 SBMM issues?

"That's your level". As if somehow I should be separated from the rest of the population because of it.  Why?  To protect your feelings?  So you can relax in a BR?  How does that make any sense in a non ranked fps game mode?  Non ranked should be a random mix of the player base.  That would give you the most realistic "feeling" of your position against the population.

Ranked mode is where you play against those at your level and to reach your highest potential position amongst them.  If you want to sit down and relax in a BR, play ranked and stay down at Rookie/Bronze where that type of play style suits you.

Feelings police handing out participation trophies is what I'm hearing you advocate.

"Ranked mode is where you play against those at your level and to reach your highest potential position amongst them.  If you want to sit down and relax in a BR, play ranked and stay down at Rookie/Bronze where that type of play style suits you."

Couldnt have put it better myself. Again, seems the changes are working. Now you are indeed playing against those at your level and so am I. And yes I am currently few points shy of silver. Which to me is okay. I dont take my gaming so seriously so those toxic comments dont really hit the target. Youve probably never went out and played any sports? Something you can do just for the fun of it. Is it possible for you to go on a run without feeling failure for not beating the world record? 

There is also a problem with the ranked rules with certain ranks not allowed to play together. And playing with friends is the best thing. This could mean certain friends cant really play ranked together. So their only option would be to play pubs and to cater your needs the pubs would need to your stomping ground. 

Whats wrong with participation trophy if youve enjoyed playing for it? You flexing with your win percentage isnt a participation trophy? It isnt just a number on a screen?

You need to touch the grass bro.

I think you're missing my point.  Pubs are just like ranked is the problem I have.  But if what I said is accurate, and I could gather my assessment just based on your statements, how is it toxic?  Why are you taking offense?

The problem with ranked is that progression is no longer skill based, and instead time based.  Quite literally participation trophy.  This coupled with de-ranking every split, has led to all-skill level people in all the ranks.  Making the whole thing a mess.

What sports did you play for the fun of it?  Do you not have fun scoring goals, stopping opposition, or winning? Your whole mindset is quite interesting.  I look at participation trophies as useless and pitiful, I'd rather have nothing.

Not sure why you're getting personal, but yeah I have kids, played sports, and only play after the day is done.  25% isn't a flex, that's what it's dropped to when compared to the last 10+ seasons.  Just like you, I like to relax and play recklessly with friends after a day of work.  That's impossible when I'm boxed in with super competitive super skilled people every game no matter what.  All in the name of feelings or marketing, not actual fairness.

Let’s not let this thread devolve into insults (on both sides).

While I can see points on both sides, I just (still) can’t get over how grueling pubs are at the moment. I have always had a gripe with SBMM in non-ranked modes, but I never wanted it completely removed. But THIS level of aggressiveness is way way too much for public matches. 

I understand that lower-skilled players (not trying to be mean, just citing their skill level) are having much better experiences— and look people enjoying themselves should be celebrated. But it definitely feels like the current system is intentionally swapping enjoyment between the two groups (players below the median skill and players above the median skill).

I hate when people say “ha well now you guys know how we felt!” People forget that above average players started out as below average players. They know what it feels like to lose at below average rates. But what many current below average players don’t know, is what it feels like to intentionally improve only to have an algorithm curate lobbies to limit your performance; this feels crappy. 

Again, I don’t want any player group feeling miserable. But we have to draw the line somewhere because we can’t make everyone perfectly happy. So the best, or rather— the most fair structure is one where outcomes are tied to a player’s skill. Below average players should have below average outcomes (until they improve), average players have average outcomes, and above average players have above average outcomes.

The equalization of outcomes really doesn’t sit well with me. 

As I said I didnt take offense. Just stated that.

"progression is no longer skill based, and instead time based." Here is what people dont understand. There is game mode called TDM where the idea is to get as many kills as possible. Then there is battle royale which means last man standing. It takes skill and understanding to not push every fight and position yourself for the end game. What respawn did is they changed it towards the true meaning of battle royale. Perhaps they wanted to see more ALGS type endgames. And based on what I have watched pro streamers playing they have been quite happy about the clutch mentality needed in it. The game is no longer all about the kills. Its a common issue as when you load up you get to see your teammates banners and they could have like +1500 kills on their main with maybe 20 wins.

I didnt make the chance. Respawn did. And I am happy about it. You are not. I dont think we need to continue this dialogue any further right?

Hope you can still find some enjoyment on your matches in the future.

A true non competitive mode against bots would be great addition like they have in Fortnite.
Pubs, ranked and BR bots.

i dont get all the fuss about ranked MM. 
The Rank Distribution on https://apexlegendsstatus.com/game-stats/ranked-distribution looks pretty healthy in comparison to former seasons especially the last one.
This shows that the progression (not the Matchmaking!) is likely skillbased and not timebased in Ranked BR, otherwise we would see a lot more platinum and diamond players to this date !
People that dont play the meta (BR is a survival game, not a TDM shooter) wont climb that fast.
20 days into last season i was already masters and had no ambition to play the ranked mode any further, now this isnt the case anymore ...with 22 days left this split i still have reasons to grind as do most players from what i see out of the disstribution chart.
Season 18 Master Badge will be worth way more than the infamous S12 and S17 badges, maybe even worth more than other seasons too ... we will see at the end of the split what the distribution will look like. But for now, imho it looks how it should look.

@hayhorno it isnt, youll see in 22 days ... the distribution will be likely looking similar to now and wont have a huge peak in masters

@hayhordoesnt matter, it wont be an easy climb for most of the S17 "Masters" bcs of the MM and not playing the meta, there wont be 1Mio Masters after this season, i bet less than 100K.
As i said, we should see way more golds, plats and diamonds by now if it would be just timebased. but what i see when looking at my random mates is a lot of S17 Masters struggeling getting out of bronze/silver, which was done in a matter of some dozent hours last season.

you're telling me the 0,01 % in the rank distribution above diamond atm are 130K player ? doesn't look right.
maybe with all the cheaters that go banned last week and that already grinded back.

@hayhori personally dont trust tracker.gg since i had quite some false results in their Overwolf overlay. apexlegendstatus is way more accurate imho. not perfect but way better in comparison

@WTF_HuitzoNot above diamond. If you add all of the buckets of diamond players you get 130k. At this point there are around 5k+ masters and  preds. Both sites agree on the number of masters and preds btw.

That site says right on it, it only tracks players who check their stats.  Naturally Diamond and above's are more likely to have an interest in their stats.  So overall it's probably not accurate, but for the higher ranks, maybe?

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@Twizted3k_tv wrote:

I think you're missing my point.  Pubs are just like ranked is the problem I have.  But if what I said is accurate, and I could gather my assessment just based on your statements, how is it toxic?  Why are you taking offense?

The problem with ranked is that progression is no longer skill based, and instead time based.  Quite literally participation trophy.  This coupled with de-ranking every split, has led to all-skill level people in all the ranks.  Making the whole thing a mess.

What sports did you play for the fun of it?  Do you not have fun scoring goals, stopping opposition, or winning? Your whole mindset is quite interesting.  I look at participation trophies as useless and pitiful, I'd rather have nothing.

Not sure why you're getting personal, but yeah I have kids, played sports, and only play after the day is done.  25% isn't a flex, that's what it's dropped to when compared to the last 10+ seasons.  Just like you, I like to relax and play recklessly with friends after a day of work.  That's impossible when I'm boxed in with super competitive super skilled people every game no matter what.  All in the name of feelings or marketing, not actual fairness.

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So you think it is fair that you get placed in lobbys with other players way below your skill level so that you can steam roll them for your amusement.

The game has always been about matching and playing with/against players of similar skill (however matchmaking has not always been the best). With that in mind whether or not you are playing ranked/Pubs, if you have a 25% win rate you should be matched against other players as close to that as possible. Same goes for K/D and what not. 

That is what competitive gaming is all about. Pubs is just as competitive as ranked.

Be proud of your 25%+ win rate and be happy to play vs the best of the best, otherwise it would be like putting you into the boxing ring vs Tyson Fury, absolutely no fun for either of you.  

Using extremes is such a weak argument point.  No one is advocating "steamrolling" new players as you suggest.  It's simple, a fair lobby is a random mix of the population. Equal opportunity.  Anything else is catering to one group at another's expense.

But to answer your question directly, yes that would be fair.  Handing one group aim assist would be an example of something unfair. Controlling who gets into what lobby would be ranking.  Why have pubs and ranked if they're both ranked?  Like I said, that's my main point and question.  It continues to go unanswered by defenders of this equal outcome driven SBMM.

@Twizted3k_tv 

Please do not take what I mentioned out of context and change it to suit your argument. Never did I mention new players, I specifically said "Way below your skill level" 

My question was: So you think it is fair that you get placed in lobby's with other players way below your skill level so that you can steam roll them for your amusement? Your answer to this is audaciously selfish with "But to answer your question directly, yes that would be fair". 

With purely randomized MM, players at your level would generally just keep putting up 4k+ damage numbers with 20 bombs all day long due to the fact that there are so many more players of significantly lower skill that you would constantly be matched against.

"It continues to go unanswered by defenders of this equal outcome driven SBMM." I am not defending the SBMM however if the outcomes were equal you would never have been able to get 25%+ win rates or am I wrong in assuming that most players do not have this equal outcome as you. 

I get you frustration the top % of skilled players get matched against the % of skilled players and it is hard at that level, concentration must be sharp, minor mistake equals back to the lobby and it is a sweat fest. I for one think it is healthier for the game and players alike to be challenged by playing at similar skill levels than being food for the wolves or getting handed a bunch of sheep to eat, served on a silver platter. 

With skilled MM one is not catering to one group or another, similar skilled players play vs similar skilled players. 

On the fairness.  How is it unfair though?  I've put in the 5k hours to be at the level I'm at, but somehow that's unfair?  And yes, higher damage/higher kill games would be, and should be, the outcome if fairness is the desired outcome.  However, the desired outcomes are feelings and marketing at the expense of fairness.

Equal outcome driven.  Take your own advice and don't change what I said.  Of course outcomes aren't equal, they never can be.  That's why equal outcome mentality always fails.  Respawn is trying to maximize profit by catering to the largest source of income.  While I've spent far more than your average player, the average player pool spends far more than me, so their feelings are catered to in the expectation that they continue to spend.

But again, and still unanswered, why the ranked and pub modes?  There used to be a clear difference.  Now, virtually none.  The same seems to be true of ranked itself.  My Silver lobbies (I rarely play ranked and get demoted) are filled with Preds and Masters.   The whole game is a complete mess because fairness has been set aside.

@Twizted3k_tv 

We all can't have our cake and eat it to.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

Best of luck and GG's in your future. 

Thanks bro, good little back and forth.