your game is stupid as hell now
Apex is * now, Too many rats ratting for LP and not playing the game, LP has to be the stupidest god damn idea, It's basically unplayable.
Forum Discussion
@reconzero Bro, I'm not rationalizing anything. I gave you the literal definition of BR, not the stuff forum members made up about survival, and still you insist that skill is measured only by winning. If that's true why don't we see every player doing it your way? Because we all know better. You know who has the most wins on the leaderboards? Their playstyle is anything but hiding. If this was Tarkov I would agree, but it's not.
@blackeyeriver
I didn't say skill was measured only by winning. I said that if I was in charge of rankings then you would get a point for a win and no points for anything less. Not quite sure where everyone gets the idea that that would equal a game without gun fights, or a game where luck is the decider. It's harsh, yes. But it hardly removes skill from the equation. What it doesn't do is hand out anything to people who insist on treating battle royale like team deathmatch.
And you do see more people doing it this way, at least in ranked. Because the post-season-13 changes are designed to discourage hot drops and other behaviors that make winning harder for the average player who might not know any better.
I didn't say skill was measured only by winning. I said that if I was in charge of rankings then you would get a point for a win and no points for anything less. Not quite sure where everyone gets the idea that that would equal a game without gun fights, or a game where luck is the decider. It's harsh, yes. But it hardly removes skill from the equation. What it doesn't do is hand out anything to people who insist on treating battle royale like team deathmatch.
And you do see more people doing it this way, at least in ranked. Because the post-season-13 changes are designed to discourage hot drops and other behaviors that make winning harder for the average player who might not know any better.
- @reconzero You are missing the point. Ranked exists to give out badges for a certain skill level. If you can manipulate that by ratting you are not demonstrating skill at all and you do not deserve said badge.
I gave you the very explanation of what a BR is - eliminating opposition until you are the last team standing. In a way it is a team deathmatch, but with many teams and a zone and no infinite respawn plus some healing so you can survive.
What you promote and have said countless times previously, is that BR is to be played as a survival game aka ratting and 3rd partying the last team. I would legit ban players that did that. It removes all skill and the whole purpose of what BR is. Fight to the top yes, be clever about it of course, don't take dumb fights - we all know this, but that does not mean you can "cleverly" rat and only fight the last team while everyone else did the hard work for you. It's borderline cheating. This is an fps game and should be played as such. - @blackeyeriver
"I gave you the very explanation of what a BR is - eliminating opposition until you are the last team standing."
You want to focus on eliminating the opposition - more power to you. I want to focus on being the last team standing. We're just going to have agree to disagree on this one.
"but that does not mean you can "cleverly" rat and only fight the last team while everyone else did the hard work for you. It's borderline cheating."
That is EXACTLY what it means. Work smarter. Not harder. IMO. - @reconzero It's not what I want to focus on that is the issue here. It's what the game is about at it's core. It is what it is, not the made up forum labels people try to put on it.
It's not what it means at all. There is absolutely no satisfaction or pride in winning a match with 1 engagement, 1 kill and 50 damage for example and no one is impressed by it. It seems more like a skill issue to me where players resort to ratting to the last team because they can't win any other way and then try to justify it with things like "smart" or "clever". If those players were good enough to win while doing the opposite, they would 100% do that instead.
@blackeyeriver wrote:
@reconzeroIt's not what I want to focus on that is the issue here. It's what the game is about at it's core. It is what it is, not the made up forum labels people try to put on it.
It's not what it means at all. There is absolutely no satisfaction or pride in winning a match with 1 engagement, 1 kill and 50 damage for example and no one is impressed by it. It seems more like a skill issue to me where players resort to ratting to the last team because they can't win any other way and then try to justify it with things like "smart" or "clever". If those players were good enough to win while doing the opposite, they would 100% do that instead.DEATHMATCH.
What you describe there is a Deathmatch and there are modes for that elsewhere.
The Wraith Quote is the best summation of the point of BR - "The only thing that matters is being the last one alive."
Frankly, in my mind, the most impressive thing would be to win with no fights and no damage because you avoid everyone else and let them do your job for you, and were smarter than the people like you that kept fighting in Fragments with the ring closing in.
I had done that twice before I quit. Very happy with those results, really.Why do you think you have to fight all 20 squads solo like the poorly designed Mortal Kombat tournaments where Liu Kang apparently had to fight EVERYONE because there was no brackets?
- @Kyldenar "Why do you think you have to fight all 20 squads solo like the poorly designed Mortal Kombat tournaments where Liu Kang apparently had to fight EVERYONE because there was no brackets?"
🤣🤣🤣 - @Kyldenar I didn't describe anything, simply gave the official definition in a previous post.
Wraith does not strike me as a camper though 🙂 Her class is skirmisher.
Skirmisher - "A skirmisher is a soldier usually sent ahead of a main body of troops to harass the enemy".
You won like that twice? What did you do the rest of the match? Doesn't sound fun tbh.
I never said you should fight every team, but fighting 0 teams intentionally until the last defeats the point of the game. No one that is good at the game chooses this playstyle willingly. What do you mean there was no brackets in MK? You work your way up as you get better until you beat the game. I don't see the problem. @blackeyeriver
While yes the very definition of br is to be the last squad standing, theres no rule on how you accomplish those means.
I don't like the rat strategy either, but as I said before, it is a viable strategy. Not just in br, but in tdms like COD or halo. There really isn't a fps where ratting isn't a viable strategy.
Is it cheap? Yes. Does it remove from the br experience? Yes. But it is still a strategy.
It sucks, but we don't get to tell other people how to play their br experience.- @blackeyeriver
Yeah, I'm with @Kyldenar here. If you start pursuing the question of what gives satisfaction in this game, or what in it serves as a source of pride, you're going down a rabbit hole that is so convoluted by differing desires, differing expectations, and imo very little awareness on the part of most players as to how big a role sbmm plays in their "satisfying" victories... that you may well end up in a place where satisfaction is no longer even an element of the game. How can anyone be satisfied with any victory until it's against the world ranked #2 player for the #1 predator spot? I guess that's being pretty absolutist in a world of grey, but my point is that the grey, if you're paying attention, will start to make terms like "satisfaction" and "pride" a lot harder to use with a straight face. At least for me. - @XxColdFangxX It does though..."be the last team by eliminating the opposition..."
It's the worst strategy actually, long term. Not only is it annoying or borderline cheating to get placement in something you didn't actually participate in, but it's the fastest way to stay or even decline at whatever skill level you are at if you keep doing it long enough.
I agree with all the rest you said. But, if people are doing this intentionally and claiming "this is the way" I believe people should at least hear a different take on it. Just remember, I'm also being told how to play, it's just that I don't buy it one bit since I see it a coping. I just don't see good players embrace this playstyle. @blackeyeriver
By eliminating the opposition doesn't say how many of that opposition you have to fight. Getting the last shot is still eliminating your opponents.If you're trying to tie an actual number into that definition then I'm sorry to say that is just your own interpretation.
1-5-or 20, it doesn't matter how many people you take out for it to be considered eliminating the opposition.
You don't see good players doing it? I fail to see where ratting automatically means unskilled. Now, that doesn't mean unskilled players aren't doing it, but some of the rats are people that are indeed good at the game but just sick of all the damn cheaters in this stupid * game with its horrible match making.You might even find some pro vids doing it for the views.
You're being told how to play? I don't believe anyone in this forum has told you that you have to play like a rat.
In fact I'm pretty sure someone has actually told you that if you want to kill half the lobby go for it, they themselves prefer to play a smarter way.
Now this loba strat I've heard about where she sits in the ring and heals herself-that I don't agree with in the slightest.
- @reconzero Eh, a bit too philosophical for my tastes, but no that was not the point. The game is meant to be played. And you guys argue the point that it's a survival game to justify camping to the last team. I simply don't agree and neither do the other teams doing the fighting. Not trying to be mean here but it's a fps at heart and it is what it is.
- @XxColdFangxX I can see this is getting off track. It doesn't matter how many fights you naturally take while playing. It's the fact that some players try and manipulate that deliberately each match so they only need to fight once. Do you think they are the best team for doing so? I don't.
I've never watched a live stream and see someone go sit in a corner ever. They usually move around the map and engage aka play the game.
Lots of opinions on how to play or treat the game here is what I mean. Read around, you'll see stuff like "play a survival game like a survival game", "only winning matters, there's no try", "improvement is a lost cause" etc etc etc. I simply hold a different opinion. @blackeyeriver
"The game is meant to be played."
Yes it is a game and as such it is ment to be played, but again that is up to the player to decide how.
You want to talk about the core of what a br is? It is BOTH shooter and survival. They are both elements that make up br. It isn't a justification but a fact and it is what makes br different from tdm.
"It's the fact that some players try and manipulate that deliberately each match so they only need to fight once. Do you think they are the best team for doing so?"
I never remotely said that they were. Only that is it more than just unskilled players doing it. But if you want a better idea on my opinion on the matter then I suggest you go back and read the discussion between me and reconzero.
If you haven't seen videos of people doing it, then you aren't looking for them. It really isn't that uncommon, how else do you think so many people learn about it? (And I never said live streams)
The fact is, there is nothing stopping you from killing these rats. It's not like they've hacked themselves off the map. If it bothers you so much, go find them and kill them in game.- @XxColdFangxX Yes, correct. I also believe in a balance but not one extreme like some suggest.
Yeah, I never read that so I dunno what you guys said. But let's just get on the same page here, I wasn't attacking you, simply answering. I refuse to see how a player or team that has the ability to have a good match in terms of damage, kills or even a win is just gonna sit around. To say good players do that too is simply not true. In the right situation, yes, but all the time, not even close.
I think it's a natural instinct to hide when you are overwhelmed. I did in fact never see people do this on purpose or bring out a tutorial on the matter. There are times when it's beneficial, but like I said, not all the time.
I don't get the duality of your posts though.
Bro I have so many questions but I can see this is gonna go in circles. Players should not rat all the time, that about it. @blackeyeriver
If this was in pubs it would not be cared about nearly as much.
How is there a duality?
You said earlier you were being told how to play, but the only person doing that very thing is you.
You come into the forums saying this is a what a br is and this is how it should be played and people shouldn't play it a certain way.People are going to play how they want to, there's nothing to do about that.
The ratting isn't the issue here. It's the horrible unbalanced ranking system.
- @XxColdFangxX What is the real issue here? How do you think we should play a Battle Royale? Tell me.
@blackeyeriver
I don't believe I will enlighten you since you already are so incapable of listening.
Because I have already been over both of those points and so have others.- @XxColdFangxX Oh my, bro, if you see comments about people complaining about how their teammates are playing do you not think they are saying those players are playing the game wrong? If you see a complaint about hot dropping do you not think people are insinuating that they are playing it wrong? Read between the lines is what I was trying to tell you originally, everyone has an opinion on how to play it properly. I call people out for putting wrong labels on a game mode for which I didn't invent the definition for and suddenly that's wrong? Even when they do the same? Bro.
The duality in your posts are that you say ratting is cheap, yet you say it's up to them and they can do what they want, yet you say if we have a problem with it we should just kill them? And you say ranking up from it puts you in ranks you don't belong. Then you upvote my original post, which is what we are discussing here, in detail essentially, which you seem to disagree with anyway. Like, what?? You endorse ratting or you don't. That's all. The details do not matter. @blackeyeriver
Maybe this will help you then bro.
Everyone has their own play style-that is a fact.
I don't like ratting-that is my preference.
Ratting is a strategy-that is a fact and a playstyle.
People are indeed manipulating the ranked system via ratting-that is a fact.
The issue isn't that people are Ratting. Rats existed long before this system. It is that the system is unbalanced, allowing those manipulating it to get to teirs they shouldn't be in. - fact
^ but this does not mean a part of the player base should be told they shouldn't be allowed to play that way. It does not matter if I endorse it or not. Or you for that matter.
You are finding duality because you are taking things out of context and not reading behind the meanings.
Everyone has an opinion on how to play yes, but what you were doing was not voicing your opinion but rather trying to force it.
However OUR discussion was about the meaning behind br and how it was interpreted, and how it 'should' be played. Again, that is how you are finding duality, because you were trying to fit my preferences on Ratting into what a br actually is.- @XxColdFangxX
Ratting is a strategy - for players who cant do 20 bombs and will not improve because it's all they do. Not only that, they promote it. I simply do not and will voice my opinion about it.
The issue isn't that people are Ratting - it's exactly the problem. Players are getting into the last 1v1 which they didn't work for. It's an exploit, not a playstyle.
You are finding duality because you are taking things out of context and not reading behind the meanings - you agree or you don't, it's simple.
Everyone has an opinion on how to play yes, but what you were doing was not voicing your opinion but rather trying to force it - if it means I hold a strong opinion on what fps means, sure, why not, I see others doing the same in this thread, with the BOLD LETTERS and all in a previous post. Please. It's called a discussion and last time I checked it was already settled between myself and the persons in question.
However OUR discussion was about the meaning behind br and how it was interpreted. Again, that is how you are finding duality, because you were trying to fit my preferences on Ratting into what a br actually is. - No, I simply gave a meaning, what ever labels you put on it is your business however misguided it may be. You agree or you don't, you could just have said as much. @blackeyeriver
Whatever helps you sleep at night bro.
I'm not going to continue a discussion with someone who only picks and chooses what parts of the conversation he wishes to listen to.I can't tell you any more than i could tell reconzero how to go about playing your game.
What I can say is that the solution is not that they shouldn't be allowed to play that way, but that the system needs to be fixed so it can't be taken advantage of.
- @XxColdFangxX 😉 All good brother.
We don't have to agree. I'm sleeping well btw 🙂
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