You have 'an' answer not 'the' answer. You are still posturing as though you have solved it, this is what is angering me. You think my OC is unstable with no information? You are just vomiting now. I have already tried stock settings. It sounds more like both of you have unstable overclocks. If you think this solution is any more permanent than capping framerates to alleviate instability you are insane.
@kto1b wrote:
You have 'an' answer not 'the' answer. You are still posturing as though you have solved it, this is what is angering me. You think my OC is unstable with no information? You are just vomiting now. I have already tried stock settings. It sounds more like both of you have unstable overclocks. If you think this solution is any more permanent than capping framerates to alleviate stability you are insane.
Of course it's not "the answer", the only answer is Respawn fixing the issues. This is only feedback for the devs to gather as much data as possible to fix the problems faster.
Well, unlocked FPS in exchange for 200mhz lower OC is a much better solution then 200mhz higher OC and FPS capped at 60-80, don't you agree?
Sure except it doesn't work, and I wasn't the one saying it was the solution that is what I was digging at OP about. Taking my overclocks off still crashed but presuming it didn't, I'd still be suffering a performance deficit in intensive scenes and the cpu would max out earlier probably causing the issue sooner. This is at best an alternative work around to capping frame rates only applicable to late hardware with avx offset support.
edit; I will apologize for my poor manners and aggression I only come back here every other day for updates on crashing it is very frustrating and I shouldn't take it out on others. However when you knock the only solutions that work for most AMD graphics card users regardless of CPU you are really pushing my buttons especially when your "Permanent Solution" is simply another method of dodging full load
How about *not* labelling **** like this a "Permanent Fix" - when it isn't - and then you probably wouldn't annoy quite as many people. It's nothing more than a help guide for the inexperienced, which won't fix the majority of people's issues.
Not to mention you certainly shouldn't be having those same inexperienced people going into the bios and increasing voltages - great way for someone to fry a chip, especially when you're evidently not that experienced yourself as you assume everyones CPU should be fine at 1.3v (hint, different CPU's all run at different voltages)
@kto1b wrote:
You have 'an' answer not 'the' answer. You are still posturing as though you have solved it, this is what is angering me. You think my OC is unstable with no information? You are just vomiting now. I have already tried stock settings. It sounds more like both of you have unstable overclocks. If you think this solution is any more permanent than capping framerates to alleviate instability you are insane.
Currently playing with maximum overclocks my build can handle with no crashes, so your argument is invalid.
Cool story why don't you join some of the 100+ page mega threads and call Respawn and tell them you have solved it for everyone with your permanent fix.
In fact all you have done is underclock for avx2 instructions meaning that you did infact have unstable overclock. Give it up.
Do you even realise that prior to haswell there was no avx2 instruction set? Everything points to your own instability and if you have 100% solved it then you aren't even having the same crash issue as others you just had an unstable computer.
@kto1b wrote:Cool story why don't you join some of the 100+ page mega threads and call Respawn and tell them you have solved it for everyone with your permanent fix.
In fact all you have done is underclock for avx2 instructions meaning that you did infact have unstable overclock. Give it up.
Do you even realise that prior to haswell there was no avx2 instruction set? Everything points to your own instability and if you have 100% solved it then you aren't even having the same crash issue as others you just had an unstable computer.
I think you're missing the point here. What makes your build unstable and all other build is THE GAME. Your system can be 100% stable, but the game is the the one that is making your build UNSTABLE.
The fix I've provided is a workaround and yes, it's working 100% when we're talking about "bad_module_info" , "WHEA_Logger" and the "EXCEPTION" log that you can now see in the Documents Folder. I presumed this issue won't be fixed with yesterday's patch, and I was right.
Btw, I still don't have any crashes with the recent patch with the workaround below.
I noticed the devs added a crash log, which is great for them to see how many people are having the EXCEPTION error. Not sure when they will fix this though.
The fix below is for people who understand what they're doing or for people who want to learn even something new and test. You won't help yourself by only complaining on the forums and talking trash.
"A fool is not the one who is uneducated, but the one who doesn't want to learn"
@kto1b wrote:
You are still falsely presuming my knowledge just because I won't quote you and write an essay. You are also completely confusing yourself now. WHEA error is directly system instability related. No one is having WHEA errors I can't even imagine why you brought it up except to highlight even further that your system is unstable.
"No one is having WHEA errors " - you have no idea what you're talking about and this shows that you haven't read any threads. You can now check the main Crashing thread and see that there are people having this issue as well, combined with bad_module_info.
"WHEA error is directly system instability related" - System instability, CONNECTED TO THE CPU. This is not an error, it's categorised as a "Warning" in the Even Viewer, but shows enough to troubleshoot.
I will now stop explaining you the basics, because you have no chance to understand a thing.
Now start playing again and continue to crash..
I've been here nearly every day champ and haven't seen WHEA error mentioned once. I think its really cute how you think you know so much but you are so confused.[Removed by CM] If you are so confident about your fix why are you not sharing it in all these other threads? Simple because its a load and you are full of it. I'm glad you fixed your unstable system but this is useless for anyone else. Not to mention how * irresponsible it is to blindly expect people to adjust their voltage the way you have suggested without specifying what generation of chip this applies too. I can just imagine a load of people that have reset their bios, potentially lost access to windows, and are also cooking their chips. You really need to reassess yourself here I can't highlight enough how bad this thread is.
@kto1b wrote:Cool story why don't you join some of the 100+ page mega threads and call Respawn and tell them you have solved it for everyone with your permanent fix.
In fact all you have done is underclock for avx2 instructions meaning that you did infact have unstable overclock. Give it up.
Do you even realise that prior to haswell there was no avx2 instruction set? Everything points to your own instability and if you have 100% solved it then you aren't even having the same crash issue as others you just had an unstable computer.
I disagree with the bolded part. If a system is 100% stable in much more demanding scenarios that also use AVX instructions then this is obviously a stability issue on their side regarding this particular crash. And according to the tests it's probably related to the game's poor AVX instructions handling.
I was getting the "bad_module_info" error in event viewer before I applied this method, how do you explain me having that error? Is it related to bad cpu overclock? Does anybody else know this? Because if it is related to it, then you would be right about the CPU instability claims.
I just uncapped framerate to crash on purpose I don't ever get anything in event viewer my issue isn't bad_module_info so I don't really know. That still highlights to me cpu instability issue for people that get it and fix it this method.
edit; i dont even get apex_crash.txt file either...
@kto1b wrote:I just uncapped framerate to crash on purpose I don't ever get anything in event viewer my issue isn't bad_module_info so I don't really know. That still highlights to me cpu instability issue for people that get it and fix it this method.
edit; i dont even get apex_crash.txt file either...
You don't get nothing in event viewer/windows logs/application?
The apex_crash.txt should be under Computer/Documents.
Now answer me few more questions regarding your cpu instability claim:
1. Why are much more demanding stress tests and games not crashing on the old OC, but only Apex if CPU instability is the problem?
2. Why is limiting FPS to 60-80 any different, does this also mean that people who "fixed" the game that way have unstable CPU/GPU overclocks?
3. A lot of people who crash when not limiting FPS run their system on stock settings, if there is no OC does it mean their HW is faulty?
Look, as much as I and I'm sure the community here appreciates the help I think its ridiculous to expect players to mess around in their BIOS to play a game without it crashing randomly. This crash has been happening since the season pass Patch. Asking people to under clock their PC's or change this and that is Bullsh$#. I know you are just trying to help but this kinda crap needs to stop because its not our jobs to fix a game its EA's job. They Suck enough money out of gamers so there's no excuse for this rubbish.
Its like they are expecting us to tweak this and that just to play the game. They are waiting for us to fix it for them at this point. F that.
I'm 100% sure that they wont fix any game crashes.. It doesn't happen to popular streamers why should they fix it then... EA is all bout money. [Removed by CM]
Community ManagerThis back and forth ends here, there is never any need to bypass the swear filter or attack another user.
If from here on out, another user posts in a manner to bypass the swear filter or attack another user then they will be facing a ban.
Darko
@RipjawsAU-TTV wrote:Look, as much as I and I'm sure the community here appreciates the help I think its ridiculous to expect players to mess around in their BIOS to play a game without it crashing randomly. This crash has been happening since the season pass Patch. s I know you are just trying to help but this kinda crap needs to stop because its not our jobs to fix a game its EA's job. They Suck enough money out of gamers so there's no excuse for this rubbish.
Its like they are expecting us to tweak this and that just to play the game. They are waiting for us to fix it for them at this point. F that.
Excuse me, where have you read that I'm "expecting" somebody to mess around in their BIOS? Where have you read that I'm asking somebody to underclock their PCs?
I'm just sharing a workaround that fixed the below explained problems.
"This crash has been happening since the season pass Patch." - no, it's been from the launch of the game. After the patch, it got worse for the players experiencing it.
CroLudi's comments in this thread are adequate and logic, you should take an example.
@CroL0co wrote:
@kto1b wrote:I just uncapped framerate to crash on purpose I don't ever get anything in event viewer my issue isn't bad_module_info so I don't really know. That still highlights to me cpu instability issue for people that get it and fix it this method.
edit; i dont even get apex_crash.txt file either...You don't get nothing in event viewer/windows logs/application?
The apex_crash.txt should be under Computer/Documents.
Now answer me few more questions regarding your cpu instability claim:
1. Why are much more demanding stress tests and games not crashing on the old OC, but only Apex if CPU instability is the problem?
2. Why is limiting FPS to 60-80 any different, does this also mean that people who "fixed" the game that way have unstable CPU/GPU overclocks?
3. A lot of people who crash when not limiting FPS run their system on stock settings, if there is no OC does it mean their HW is faulty?
I am well aware of where to check for the text file I'm not the only one that doesn't get one I crashed a bunch of times to triple check I don't get one. I don't get anything in event viewer either never have since the beginning.
I can't answer your questions because we have been arguing about different types of crashes to begin with. I don't suffer bad module info, this is an error that affects many games and is related to Windows game mode and full screen optimizations. I have no idea how using avx offset alleviates this issue for you other than reducing performance of the game to improve the 'game stability'. Also been lots of confusion between game stability and system stability. Full screen optimizations doesn't like being minimized, that is why the 'fix' that people don't minimize their game helps them. Capping the framerates isn't about dodging system stability rather game stability. That is why over many different configurations most people can't go over 80 fps because its more about the game engine having a hiccup not the system.
I was attacking OP regarding overclock stability because he presumed mine unstable with zero information. There was far more chance that you guys are unstable with the information you have given than what I am running. Especially if you are saying that reducing clocks for avx instructions helps you. You both also are wrongly presuming how stability works, I've been p95 stable and crashed in something as seemingly measly as Overwatch. Its just how it goes, so to presume that Apex is less stressful than BF5 is ignorant.
Number 3 I am still not sure which crash we are talking about unfortunately.
Again for what its worth I'll apologize a second time but to be fair you both jumped all over me and insulted my intelligence simply for calling your 'permanent solution' bad.
@EA_Darko wrote:This back and forth ends here, there is never any need to bypass the swear filter or attack another user.
If from here on out, another user posts in a manner to bypass the swear filter or attack another user then they will be facing a ban.
Darko
What ends here is my damn patience for this game, the novelty has already worn off, the ignorance that only a small amount of people suffer crashes is bamboozling. People swear out of frustration and when your game has been severely broken since launch I don't know why its so surprising or shocking to you, or why you condone this thread in general with such poor risky advice (lucky that OP editted it after being called out) You should be doing far more than caring about swear filter bypass and actually aid and appease the community with this issue thats spiraling out of control. Pretty sure your title says Community Manager not Moderator. We just need to be told that there is progress, that its being solved, that there is light at the end of the tunnel, for now you can consider me done and dusted. And if I do ever come back don't think I'd even dream of giving you a dime. Went from the biggest hype train into the biggest frustration for millions of people. A flop epic enough for the record books at this rate. https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/b0reek/so_i_found_this_interview_with_a_respawn_employee/ all just a big joke..
@kto1b wrote:
I am well aware of where to check for the text file I'm not the only one that doesn't get one I crashed a bunch of times to triple check I don't get one. I don't get anything in event viewer either never have since the beginning.
I can't answer your questions because we have been arguing about different types of crashes to begin with. I don't suffer bad module info, this is an error that affects many games and is related to Windows game mode and full screen optimizations. I have no idea how using avx offset alleviates this issue for you other than reducing performance of the game to improve the 'game stability'. Also been lots of confusion between game stability and system stability. Full screen optimizations doesn't like being minimized, that is why the 'fix' that people don't minimize their game helps them. Capping the framerates isn't about dodging system stability rather game stability. That is why over many different configurations most people can't go over 80 fps because its more about the game engine having a hiccup not the system.
I was attacking OP regarding overclock stability because he presumed mine unstable with zero information. There was far more chance that you guys are unstable with the information you have given than what I am running. Especially if you are saying that reducing clocks for avx instructions helps you. You both also are wrongly presuming how stability works, I've been p95 stable and crashed in something as seemingly measly as Overwatch. Its just how it goes, so to presume that Apex is less stressful than BF5 is ignorant.
Number 3 I am still not sure which crash we are talking about unfortunately.
Again for what its worth I'll apologize a second time but to be fair you both jumped all over me and insulted my intelligence simply for calling your 'permanent solution' bad.
Again you gave me 0 answers, just some assumptions and nothing more.
Can't believe you're still defending low FPS locking over lovering the OC by 200mhz. While the first cripples your game experience (assuming you're playing on a high RR monitor) the other one makes you lose few FPS. Also saying that only the 2nd one is a sign for instability just like not seeing how much load BF5 puts on the cpu is just ignorant. Btw the thing with OW was also on the devs side.
I understand you're frustrated, but not accepting any logic wont get you far.
I am defending it because it works and lowering the OC didn't. Which is what logically indicates instability for you and not for me, don't know how much clearer it can be.
Games put loads on in different ways, as you've noticed with the avx2 instructions. You are still talking about a different type of crash. Same thing happens with GPU's, people say Heaven is intensive but its so loaded with tesselation that it doesn't stress the gpu its just a benchmark. When the game has a hiccup it rapidly changes the cpu utilization which can throw a cpu with c-states way off. It's possible to have an overclock that is fine under load but cannot transition back and forth between heavy load and no load effectively.
@kto1b wrote:I am defending it because it works and lowering the OC didn't. Which is what logically indicates instability for you and not for me, don't know how much clearer it can be.
Games put loads on in different ways, as you've noticed with the avx2 instructions. You are still talking about a different type of crash. Same thing happens with GPU's, people say Heaven is intensive but its so loaded with tesselation that it doesn't stress the gpu its just a benchmark. When the game has a hiccup it rapidly changes the cpu utilization which can throw a cpu with c-states way off. It's possible to have an overclock that is fine under load but cannot transition back and forth between heavy load and no load effectively.
The only thing it logically indicates is that we have different types of crashes.
Maybe you're experiencing some crashes connected to the GPU and lowering FPS is just another workaround that puts off some load of the GPU. According to your logic your GPU is faulty or you have an unstable overclock.
BF5 also uses AVX instructions, yet no problems there or with ANY other game with this 1 year old overclock of mine.
Every game has hiccups and the load is never 100% the whole time, games are well known for their chaotic behavior, so it's obviously a problem in their coding.
Point of the story people can try out this method, if they're experiencing the same crash it's a good workaround, if not they will have to wait for the devs to fix it.
P.S. To the guy who wants this thread to be deleted because overclocking is "unsafe", please educate yourself before writing some disinformation like this.
If you saw OP's post before the edit you would say otherwise it was extremely irresponsible. And yes we are clearly talking about different crashes however you are still misunderstanding and putting words in my mouth. You are also still incorrectly presuming that a heavier workload is a more stressful workload. If you weren't so defensive of your overclock we'd have gotten here much quicker. You are AGAIN still confusing game stability with system stability, I am completly washing my hands of this thread all the cutesy quotes you two have thrown out is completely advice you should be taking yourself.
PS there is no need to quote everything when you are replying to the message directly above you are just making a damn mess
@CroL0co wrote:
@kto1b wrote:I am defending it because it works and lowering the OC didn't. Which is what logically indicates instability for you and not for me, don't know how much clearer it can be.
Games put loads on in different ways, as you've noticed with the avx2 instructions. You are still talking about a different type of crash. Same thing happens with GPU's, people say Heaven is intensive but its so loaded with tesselation that it doesn't stress the gpu its just a benchmark. When the game has a hiccup it rapidly changes the cpu utilization which can throw a cpu with c-states way off. It's possible to have an overclock that is fine under load but cannot transition back and forth between heavy load and no load effectively.The only thing it logically indicates is that we have different types of crashes.
Maybe you're experiencing some crashes connected to the GPU and lowering FPS is just another workaround that puts off some load of the GPU. According to your logic your GPU is faulty or you have an unstable overclock.
BF5 also uses AVX instructions, yet no problems there or with ANY other game with this 1 year old overclock of mine.
Every game has hiccups and the load is never 100% the whole time, games are well known for their chaotic behavior, so it's obviously a problem in their coding.
Point of the story people can try out this method, if they're experiencing the same crash it's a good workaround, if not they will have to wait for the devs to fix it.
P.S. To the guy who wants this thread to be deleted because overclocking is "unsafe", please educate yourself before writing some disinformation like this.
Nah, don't waste your time. This guy has decided to play smart on the forum after he'd read some articles on the internet. I doubt he has seen his Bios ever. :D Not to mention his "arguments" on the "fullscreen optimizations" in the compatibility mode :D Saying this is a "fix" immediately shows he doesn't know what he's talking about and doesn't know what this option does exactly. Same goes for the fps cap.
Anyways,@CroL0co, have you had any crashes after avx2? I haven't had any crashes after putting my setup on avx3 and 5100mhz. = 4800Mhz. / 4900Mhz Avg. (i7 9700K)
I've been doing some testing with the AVX Issues in Apex Legends, and I have found that on fully working CPU's, if they ARE overclocked, the fix is to raise CPU Vcore voltage.
Apex Legends, if the vcore is too low (on 8th and 9th gen CPU's like the 9900K), you wind up getting strange WHEA correctable errors like Internal Parity error" or "CPU TLB" errors, errors usually you never see anywhere else. The game doesn't even crash if you are "close" to the stable point, you just see errors logged in HWinfo64 and shown in windows event viewer.
The reason prime95 passes is simple:
1) prime95 with AVX disabled is SSE2 only so is irrelevant.
2) prime95 small FFT with AVX enabled is irrelevant because it's a power virus that pulls so many amps that overclocked CPU's will crash due to voltage droop (higher amps=more voltage drop), making the cpu vcore wind up too low for that workload. Or from the cores getting too high temp and then reaching the unstable point for that cpu frequency. However there is a very big difference that everyone is overlooking, besides the 'power virus' component of prime95 small FFT.
AVX instructions can only access main memory by the # of memory channels, and an i9 9900K only has two memory channels. That means when accessing main memory, only two CPU *threads* will gain full access to memory via AVX instructions. If you wind up using more threads, the threads wind up competing with each other and the power draw actually goes way down.
9900K users can see this, if you have access to the voltage regulator VRM registers that monitor "Amps" draw, like on Gigabyte Z390 boards and some MSI Z390 models, the IR 35201 or the Renesas / Intersil (ISL) VRM's, where you see VR VOUT and Current (IOUT) (Amps) shown in HWinfo64.
Download prime95 29.6 build 7 from the software section of their forum.
Then run an AVX2 and AVX1 DISABLED test with 1344K in place fixed FFT's (SSE2 instructions) and notice the amps power draw and the power POUT from the VRM. If you don't have access to this, you can use CPU Package Power, although this is sometimes inaccurate on some boards (long story). Write that value down.
Then run the same test with AVX enabled (disable FMA3 (AVX2)) and notice that the power draw is **LOWER** ! Yes, it's LOWER For AVX than for non AVX !
That's because the AVX threads are now competing with each other for memory access!
People noticed this same problem when running LinX testing with certain residual sizes. They noticed that when they enabled hyperthreading, certain sizes had a LOWER speed result (rather than faster) than when they had hyperthreading disabled! It's basically the same issue there.
Then, try running AVX with small FFT and smallest FFT. (compare that to AVX disabled small FFT). Remember: prime95 29.6 build 7).
OMG, now it's REALLY pouring on the amps and heat! You're looking now at literally 50% more power draw than AVX disabled!
But why?
Simple. Smallest FFT and small FFT are not touching main memory at all! They're running purely in the CPU's L1/L2/L3 caches! So all 16 AVX threads have full access to the caches.
Thus, any prime95 AVX crashes are going to be completely different than what you would see in Apex (like those bizarre Internal Parity errors or TLB errors) or other internal CPU errors that show up as "Corrected Machine Check". Prime95 errors are far more likely to show up as "Cache Hierarchy Error" due to it hammering the CPU cache intensely, which Apex legends does NOT do.
As far as WHEA errors with CPUs' running completely stock? Could be faulty hardware. There have been reports of 8700K's and 9900K's just completely dying randomly, which no one has been able to track down the reason for. If someone is getting this at PURE stock speeds, if you downclock the CPU and the problems go away, you need to RMA. It means your silicon is defective.
Now, again I'm NOT talking about random CTD's or game crashes due to bad code. I'm talking about pure CPU instability that gets logged in event viewer or in HWinfo64 in the Windows Hardware Errors area.
It is very interesting that Apex Legends is handling AVX instructions differently than Realbench 2.56 (handbrake).
I've already done some testing and found that 5.1 ghz @ 1.330v (loadline calibration=turbo) was 2 hours stable in Apex. 5 ghz @ 1.255v, 1.260v,1.265v and 1.270v were generating random WHEA's, while 1.275v passed 2 hours (again loadline calibration=Turbo; this is a Gigabyte board). I'm going to do some more tests and see if VCCIO has any effect on this. Probably won't, as VCCIO is supposed to affect the L3 cache, and I still do not know if the "Ring/Cache frequency" is the L3 cache or L2 cache. I guess I'll find out.
That being said, Apex Legends is now my go to program for real world AVX gaming stability.
