Forum Discussion
56 Replies
- @UnCazualGamer This is what I don’t understand: “ med kits and ammo boxes are tossed around plenty because they are class bound”
There is nothing that blocks a player to still choose to provide the support on the battlefield. You can even argue that it will be simpler because now you can choose a weapon of choice and still be medic. And according to dice research, the main driver in class selection was primary weapon. That means some guys didn’t go medic because they didn’t like the smg. Dice have changed around these classes from game to game and someone was alsways unhappy. Now they have given us the choice instead. I hope and believe we will rise to the responsibility and choose something else than rocket launchers. "I wouldn’t judge the team play from the beta."
Why not? The only difference between a beta and a launch version is polish. Major gameplay decisions are made during alpha. Unless they change / improve the specialist system, everyone is going to be a solo meta solider in the release version as well. You are also ignoring the issue of the awful map that we witnessed.
The problems with the specialist system are easily understood even without playing the beta.
"Lastly on this, I too played the beta and both gave and received meds and ammo so it was not totally absent."
It's far less common than in previous titles.
"I hope they do something like in bfv where if you requested support, the nearby options to get it was highlighted in ui"
You still don't have the in game visual signal, and you still have the problem of people forgoing ammo and med kits for more obvious choices.
"but at this stage you cannot claim knowledge and give facts about how this will turn out."
I can do so about the specialist system that I already experienced. If they don't change it for a traditional class system, then the issues will obviously remain.
"The new way is not blocking team play "
It does for the reasons I told and that you don't understand. People throw med kits and ammo boxes less often because they can be swapped out for better things, and you never know who has what if anything anymore.
"Maybe this new system will encourage more squad play"
It'll do the opposite, because you don't know who has what anymore just by their class, and because you can pick whatever gadget you want. It encourages meta builds, you can be a self ammo supplying rocket guy, instead of needing a support squadmate assisting you.
"Even if it is a series staple, I see it as a good thing that dice is trying to evolve and improve stuff"
Throwing out series staples for new stuff is not a good thing, that is not trying to evolve that is trying to mimic the success of Call of Duty Warzone and other Battle Royales which obviously inspired this mess. There is no advantage to the specialist system in a team based multiplayer, nobody asked for it and most people hate it. The old adage applies : "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!". There was absolutely nothing wrong with the old class system. In fact the specialists could've been incorporated into them, so that maybe you have 2 - 3 variants of each class.
This is overall quite naïve to think Dice is thinking about us with these horrid changes. They want to sell us skins, they already announced that they will.
The wheel to change gun equipment is an example of a positive evolution I think, though changing calibers is a bit too much.
"There is nothing that blocks a player to still choose to provide the support on the battlefield"
Nobody said otherwise, but when you can choose between a med kit and a rocket launcher its a rather obvious choice. So everyone picks the best thing for the own meta build to be a super soldier and the traditional roles / support structure are gone.
"And according to dice research, the main driver in class selection was primary weapon"
Probably, but that doesn't change the niche support roles those classes provided which are now going to be replaced by solo super soldiers.
"I hope and believe we will rise to the responsibility and choose something else than rocket launchers."
That's a naive pipedream, and the class system already prevented that from happening, which is why it was so vital to the series. Human nature is for everyone to pick what's best for themselves, that's why game design and incentivization is so important.
- @UnCazualGamer I think I gave you explanation of why I think you should not judge team play by the beta. As to the rest, we will see. Hope you are wrong, I do.
See you on the battlefield! I’ll give you meds and ammo all day every day! - Trokey664 years agoSeasoned Ace@mesterKG With you on this, expecting teamplay in the Beta then projecting that forward is a bit silly really.
Many were simply messing around with load outs and what settings were available, trying out all the shiny new stuff and trying to work out where they were on a massive new map!
I'm not sold on specialists and agree with many concerns but lack of teamwork is not one of them.
We have all seen a lack of heals, revives and ammo etc in previous games even when such gadgets are hard tied to classes. Look the beta was a beta, and considering how hard it was to squad up and get in a game let alone getting two squads into the same game we can kind of see why most people were going solo.
Also the game is 128 player, no way the standard conquest zerg is going to work ?? Now those of us who did play BF1 which had operations, a round over multiple maps, and BFV which had grand operations, a round over multiple maps, throw in Star Wars Battlefront big game mode and DICE have been bringing 64 player big game modes at 60 fps and 60 tick rate to consoles for a few years now. So despite the howls from the peanut gallery they have the data and an idea how to make a big game for 125 players.
And having been playing BFV the weekly assignments system keeps a lot of players dropping meds and ammo and the other team based actions quite well.
I feel the main reason for the lack of info is just to prevent the haters from tearing the game apart before anyone gets into the game.
@mesterKGI think I gave you an explanation that I was judging the current specialist system, which has nothing to do with the beta status. I also told you the difference between alpha and beta. I already know the current system ruins teamplay. I also know the slide cancelling is awkward and non immersive, that the map is empty and boring, and that helicopters have no weight to them. My hype for the game is dead, just like the franchise.
"See you on the battlefield! I’ll give you meds and ammo all day every day!"
I'm sure you will, most will just abuse the rocket launcher in this hot mess 🙂
@Trokey66 "With you on this, expecting teamplay in the Beta then projecting that forward is a bit silly really."
Why is it silly? The problems are integral to the new specialist system, polishing the game and getting it out of beta isn't going to resolve that at all.
- Trokey664 years agoSeasoned Ace
@UnCazualGamerIt is silly for the very reasons I stated!
Expecting people to play the Beta as a full game is rediculous as they are to involved in trying out all the new shiny stuff.
I play a hell of a lot of Support and throw ammo out left, right and centre and there is currently no reason why that won't continue in BF2042.
During the Beta however, of course I tried out the Stiglas and Rockets, dabbled with health and drones and even spent time flying helicopters.
Why?
Because it was all new and I wanted to see what is what.
It will be exactly the same when the game first launches, people will mess about a bit learning the maps and figuring out what works for them but as things settle down, ammo and health will appear.NOTE: If there is no teamwork such as ammo, how are people going to abuse rockets?
"Expecting people to play the Beta as a full game is rediculous as they are to involved in trying out all the new shiny stuff."
I am judging the specialist system and its pitfalls, that has nothing to do with beta vs full game, nothing ridiculous at all. The specialist system ruins teamplay, that's not going to be magically resolved once the game is out of beta. You would have to replace the specialist system with a traditional class one, only way.
"I play a hell of a lot of Support and throw ammo out left, right and centre and there is currently no reason why that won't continue in BF2042."
But there is a reason most people won't its because there is better stuff than ammo and med kits to swap for, and you don't know who has what anymore, its a disaster.
"It will be exactly the same when the game first launches, people will mess about a bit learning the maps and figuring out what works for them but as things settle down, ammo and health will appear."
No ammo and health won't magically appear. There is no incentive to choose those over rockets and other gear, that's why the class system was important as it made for dedicated roles. Total freedom does not and will not equate to team play, it leads to solo meta soldiers.
Now you can be a self ammo supplying sniper, where is the team play in that?
"NOTE: If there is no teamwork such as ammo, how are people going to abuse rockets?"
I mean that people choose rockets over other things, we already saw that.
