Re: 120s cooldown on helis/attack vehicles should not be put in place in conquest

@InsidiuZ The scout heli respawn time in BF4 Conquest was 60 seconds

@SpudBug

Maybe and if so it was too fast there too (despite the insta- vehicle-respawn servers).
I would consider 2 minutes OK and taking out a tank would then have finally some impact.
Overall, a good change in my book.

And as far as your statement "a 120 second cooldown on the Jet/NB/Attack heli means the enemy team gets two minutes to farm infantry without worrying about other aircraft contesting them. " is concerned: Last time I played it was definitely NOT our helis that were killing the other helis as they were busy with their own kill streaks on the enemy infantry.
As long as we have SOFLAM and M5 we as infantry can at least drive the enemy helis off.

@DuaneDibbley M5 should not lock with the soflam and do one hit kills. thats so overpowered and crazy

@SpudBug
What would be the point of using a SOFLAM otherwise? It has a short enough range to not make it overpowered (it makes it useless when it comes to jets though, so I would hope for a LONGER lock on range for jets). A M5 is (and definitely should be) a one hit kill for the Nightbird (I guess we agree on that 😉 ) when it is when fired without a lock on, so why should it do LESS damage otherwise?

In any case, the problem for the Nightbirds is that:

- we have too many players (no need go into that again, but 128 is simply too much an not fun) and
- EVERYONE can equip AA weaponry

Once the player count is changed to 64 players, the maps get a bit smaller and we have the classes back, things will be much more controllable (and fun for both vehicle and infantry players).

@SpudBug One of the additional settings on our Friendly Fire enabled Classic BF4 servers was 400% vehicle respawn time. And in my opinion, that was a good way to set it up. So 2/3 vehicles double respawn time is something I like to experience first. But it seems to go in the right direction.

@Psubond The soflam did not work with a launcher that was one hit kill in bf3 or bf4. It works with a lower damage launcher

@DuaneDibbley "I would consider 2 minutes OK and taking out a tank would then have finally some impact."
That alone is a pretty big glaring double standard, since infantry have super quick respawns + spawning on any squad member after a short cooldown after taking damage. So it's "finally having an impact" for a tank to be down for 2 mins, but floods of respawning infantry every 5 seconds who have fresh kits is ok? Where do we draw the line at?

Different assets should have different cooldowns based on how impactful they are (air attack timer/ ground attack timer etc), not just a lazy halfassed blanket timer because 2 platforms were annoying.

@Anti-Tank-Killer So...when vehicle folks can't pull a vehicle do y'all just like...stare at a wall until you can grab a vehicle or something? Or do y'all actually play as infantry until you can get your next vehicle?

You're not supposed to be able to stay in vehicles the entire match unless you're actually keeping yours alive. If you're getting your vehicle killed, the cooldown and the risk of others pulling it is the "penalty".

Because vehicles have far larger individual impacts than infantry do on-average, so with vehicles being force multipliers it makes sense they're not as readily available as a simple infantry respawn.

@edgecrusherO0 First off I'm not a "y'all" so trying to ask me to represent everyone is kinda pointless so I can't even answer that question besides what I would do. Sometimes I'd wait, sometimes I'd play, if there were good vehicle fights and I happened to die, I'd try and get another tank or wildcat and go back at it because those to me are fun, more of a challenge and more skill based even with how watered down engagements across the board are. The added benefit of success is less pressure on my team, if I fail, that is favor for the enemy team obviously.

Your second point is very wrong, in capable hands any weapon or weapons platform can survive, I've done it many of times and as I said before I use to competitive play back in BF2 which gives me a slight edge when approaching situations, so yes I've gone X-Kills and 0 Deaths many times, however with cheesy mechanics like the C5 drone being able to instakill that point is even less valid, when I tank, I fire on the move and maneuver constantly but there are times you need to actually range your shots when engaging enemies from a large distance so before you say 'well just keep moving dont camp' stopping for a few seconds to judge range is not camping, and infantry do not suffer from many mechanics armor does, and yes I have been struck by a C5 drone from underground while moving to kill a bolte that was harassing my team. Stack that with not only the personal timer that is baked into a vehicle loss but the regular timer itself and you have an overly punishing experience for not playing perfectly for arguably little actual force projection.

And for your last point, you are lumping everything together, by saying 'vehicles' as opposed to specific platforms which I'll always say is lazy. 2 tanks have less power projection compared to the flying squirrel, they lack maneuverability, they are loud, big and slow and get stuck and flanked very easily. Now if you said 2 bolte's then yes, they will shred every soft target you give them, I'm not saying give vehicles an 'infantry like' respawn. No idea where that concept came from. However infantry power projection is pretty crazy with how short respawns are, the ability to spawn on any squadmate and pull very specific gadgets with no real downside to their own kit. Besides the Blote and nightbird, leathality is very questionable, just like you say 'vehicles' are supposed to be force multipliers but yet we still have complaints from people not being able to 1 v 1 a tank so which is it? If they are force multipliers they need the impact to do so, but again a tank has less actual impact compared to most infantry specialists, a tank cant glide 700m after dropping off a pebble and drop nades or C5 all over everything, a tank can't 1 shot another vehicle (unless its the pickup truck or lil shrimp car) from a bush, and a tank can't bob n weave and zipline up random places or even go into a close quarters area where all the flags are.

So again, where do we draw the line?

A simple way to tone down vehicle pressure, ammo limits, and get rid of auto healing for infantry and auto repair for vehicles.

@edgecrusherO0 Vehicle mains wait for their jet or heli because if they don't some dope will take it so they can fly it to an objective and bail out or fly it into the ground because they don't know what they are doing.

I almost think there should be a "priority queue" for players that have an above average record as pilot for anti-tank and anti air kills with helis and planes. Once you qualify as an "ace" pilot (by being above average, not by being top tier) you should get a notification that a jet or heli is available and queue into it.

If nobody takes it within 10s then it goes to the general player pool.

Having an effective pilot killing other aerial vehicles/tanks and being challenged by effective pilots on the enemy team is good for the overall game balance and good for infantry players as well.

@SpudBug man BF vehicle-mains are some of the worst gate-keepers in the franchise....

@X-Sunslayer-X If you dont like a game that has vehicles and combined arms gameplay why not play a different game? Instead we have complainers wanting the game to be infantry only.

Maybe we should add a 60 second cooldown to infantry spawns so that they can see what it's like when you die to something you couldn't even react to like the c5 drone and you have to wait to play.

@SpudBug so if you want to play vehicles exclusively in game where about 75-90% of the players simply have to play infantry because we can not have 128 player all fit into vehicles (yet) then yeah that is the downside you choose after ignoring infantry gameplay....
and you think infantry is not dying all the time to the 3 Nightbirds, 3 Armoured vehicles, 4 Boltes ontop of all the infantry abusing boris-turrets or sitting 100m ontop of godknowswhat with snipers....
don't assume infatry is having a blast in this game, the truth is no one can really enjoy this game atm... we all suffer trough this "game" equally to a degree

@X-Sunslayer-X this is only true if you play breakthrough. I play conquest and vehicles are in the game. But they dont dominate and you forget that there are at least 100 players that all can equip anti-vehicle kits and blow up vehicles.

I dont know why you said i want to play vehicles exclusively, I want a battlefield game that has vehicles and infantry combined. I dont want vehicles removed like most people seem to these days because they are bad at playing anti-vehicle and cant figure out anything except left trigger and right trigger aim and shoot.

@SpudBug i am fairly sure the numbers of vehicles on conquest and breaktrough are somewhat equal, now the distribution per team is def. different in breaktrough, but the main point stays.
1 Bolte takes 3 Rockets, is extremely fast and a very small target esp. if the driver can think and breath at the same time. so sure if 3 people shoot a stationary Bolte sure it dies fast but the reality is this thing will drive full throttle with a gunner somewhere and kill whatever is in its path, most likely killing 4-8 players before dying and then within a few seconds it respawns...
i always play with the M5 whatever else i play because i simply have to. the sheer amount of armour that can wreck me around these maps forces it. now i doubt the vast majority could hit a barn from the inside with the M5 but somehow vehicles still seem to dominate eventough everyone can play AT... i wonder why......

@X-Sunslayer-X The attackers get at least double the amount of vehicle spawns as the attackers.