Re: SUPER HIND: Please, nerf! Absurd caught on VIDEO

@ATFGunrWe could have two engineers with AA, but... 3 attack vehicles (four if you count the tank) vs one TRANSPORT and we could still use more people? At this rate we lose beacons, medics, anti tanks, flags. The whole team would be fighting the Hind. This should never be needed.

If it was me, I would do four things:
1) Reduce vertical speed/climb, which would result in slower horizontal movement.
2) Reduce miniguns reach from 300 to 250 m and add higher spread over distance. Still good enough, aligned with the transport role and firepower around the flag range.
3) Return 50 mm "clip size" to 8 bullets.
4) Limit how high the miniguns can aim, so that in a straight zero degree horizontal flight, it would aim to maximum of 30 degrees down (but I'd test it out and start with 10 degrees to see how it goes).

No change to repairs. No change to health.

Of course, the AA rockets have to be fixed (vs Hinds, Nightbird's, whatever). They have to work as intended, the AA-IR and FXM-33 Stinger have to hit, simple as that, and even do some splash damage in a late flare. They have to outperform Liz in the Anti Air task, and she is, anecdotally, the AA weapon of choice ATM. 

The expected result: Hinds would not chase attack vehicles anymore, outperforming them in speed and firepower. They would retain the current health, to last as a transport vehicle and run away, slowly, but with enough health, when necessary. It would be balanced with the Condor. Finally, it would function like a transport vehicle, with adequate firepower vs infantry. With more spread on the miniguns, the closer, the better, i.e., the more it is playing the objective (flag) and the transport role, the better it will, hence, players will be rewarded by playing the transport role.

BTW, someone from DICE posted something on Twitter. DICE heard us and will be doing something, saying the feedback was definitely "ABOVE THE RADAR", and I just hope it is not a funny tip for a possible removal of the "below radar" mechanic, which fix nothing. Rockets were not few against the Hind, and the Hind in the video did not take advantage of the "below radar" mechanic AT ALL. On the contrary: The Hind wanted to be high, not low. Below radar is not the root cause of anything there. 

Hi all,

Just wanted to mention that this feedback has been passed on to the teams.

There is one simple solution to reduce its speed in all projections by at least 30-40%. Hinds should live up to its "Cow" status and be as clumsy as Condr . This will be enough to get away from him or inflict heavy damage on him before he enters the line of fire.

And pass this aswell.

unhappy customers are the loudest, exactly like ts.

There has never been so many ways to take down air vehicles, so no, the devs should do the opposite, nerf anti air or buff the air vehicles.

The Condor is the flagship vehicle for this game, but the Hind is the real MVP a flying battleship. 

Personally I think the game would play out far better without either vehicle and replaced with standard helicopters like the Blackhawk or KA-60. Lightly armoured troop transports designed to ferry troops point to point. 

Transports are very difficult to balance.

• What input is the baseline for weapon balance? Controller or KBM?  Controller gets zero aim assist on vehicle turrets and makes for a significant performance gap.  In 100hr+ on last gen I don't recall ever seeing a problematic transport crew. On PC crossplay servers I actively avoid taking a gunner seat on vehicles.
• Six people working together + a vehicle should be a scary thing.  It should be at least equal to the sum of its parts. If BF2042 must have an apex predator I'm ok with it being something requiring 6 people.

Personally I'd like to see DICE approach the transport problem as if were a mini-beheomoth from BF1. I enjoyed both killing and operating behemoths.  Ultra tanky, respectable firepower but suseptable to chip damage.  This would probably require some combination of stationary AA, or an AA turret option for Crawford. Removal of flares. Massively nerf repairability. Lower maneuverability.  Adjust/increase health pool to keep it viable 

I agree in part. We gotta focus on the subject at hand. 

ATM we are talking about the Hinds, vehicle balance (Hind vs Condor), and the AA working as intended as a possible cause for this dominance, because it doesn't work as intended. 

My main points of the arguments were the team play and well-defined roles, the core if Battlefield, a starting point of a game design, which was missed long ago in this game due to so many other pressing issues.

There are other issues to be discussed, such as the Wildcat range (especially in 64 player maps, people camping at the HQ) and TOR. Maybe another day. DICE has limited staff working on 2042. We don't want to overwhelm them. 

Notice that I did not speak about taking the fun away of those who like flying helicopters and jets. Placing the Hind in a spot where the Condor is WOULD NOT change how other air vehicles play at all.On the contrary! By eliminating these absurd situations, it would be better for other vehicles. If you were the jet or the Heli there, you wouldn't be bullied by the Hind.

I asked for 50 cal nerf and miniguns range nerf, as Condors sometimes bully other helicopters too.   

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@AngrySquid270 wrote:

Transports are very difficult to balance.

• What input is the baseline for weapon balance? Controller or KBM?  Controller gets zero aim assist on vehicle turrets and makes for a significant performance gap.  In 100hr+ on last gen I don't recall ever seeing a problematic transport crew. On PC crossplay servers I actively avoid taking a gunner seat on vehicles.
• Six people working together + a vehicle should be a scary thing.  It should be at least equal to the sum of its parts. If BF2042 must have an apex predator I'm ok with it being something requiring 6 people.

Personally I'd like to see DICE approach the transport problem as if were a mini-beheomoth from BF1. I enjoyed both killing and operating behemoths.  Ultra tanky, respectable firepower but suseptable to chip damage.  This would probably require some combination of stationary AA, or an AA turret option for Crawford. Removal of flares. Massively nerf repairability. Lower maneuverability.  Adjust/increase health pool to keep it viable 

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The footage is from console only.  I believe (not.sure)PS5 with cross play off. The way to balance that is focusing the role on transport. That way, KBM or pad won't make much of a difference (the overall effect will be less noticeable). But KBM vs controller is another subject.

I disagree that a 6 crew vehicle should be like that. It was fighting three attack vehicles (four at a point). It is a transport vehicle, not an attack vehicle. Compare:

-The LATV is a 4 crew w/ 1 gunner, and the hovercraft is a 4 crew with 3 gunners,

-The night bird is a 4 crew w/ two fire modes, plus 3  seats: spot, and possible repair. The transport capability is very underated, but limited to squad, and,

-The Brawler and MAV are 5 seaters, the MAV with 3 guns, and the brawler has 2 gunners + 2 possible soldiers firing or repairing. 

None of them do what the Hind does.

Heck! The Condor doesn't do what the Hind does. No 6-seater can fight 3 attack vehicles.

Just picture a brawler with 5 people, plus a guy with AA and infinite ammo, repairing if needed. Throw in a 7th guy, a Rao hacking the stealth and Wildcat. Leave the Wildcat with a 20 mm just to give the Brawler the upper hand. Now press play...

No matter how you look at how the situation would play out, the Brawler won't do what the Hind did. They won't get the same result. The way I picture this scenario is, the stealth helicopter will flare, get hit, run away, stealth, go high, drop a bomb, refresh flare...  the brawler would run away, get some cover, repair, refresh smoke or anti rocket system (forgot the name), soldiers would get killed and respawn, take a break... The jet would flare, eat a rocket, stay away and repair... These 3 vehicles vs the one 1 hypothetical Brawler + 2 (7 guys, hack, repair, playbook teamwork) replacing the Hind would be a good fight. The whole situation would last much longer, there would be some back and forth... Probably the 3 attack vehicles would win. 

Or...

Just picture the same situation with a Condor, instead of a Hind. The attack helicopter would survive, get higher, run away, there would be angles where the miniguns wouldn't hit as well, change flight mode to stay above the helicopter, run away, refresh flares and recover some health... It would be an good fight. That is all. No upsets, no ridiculous bullying, no doubling down as transport/attack outperforming others. 

Simple.

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@EA_Leeuw wrote:

Hi all,

Just wanted to mention that this feedback has been passed on to the teams.

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Thanks for the nod. 

I appreciate it. 

I got frustrated just by watching the video for several reasons

The first reason was of course the tankiness of that Hind.  What the heck, it was that it was almost like if it had a force field deflecting the jet shots. Also the freaking AA-IR looping issue still have not been fixed... they are supposed to now (I quote) fly "straight at the target with unbridled wrath"...

Now lets go at the sins of the other side:

Stealth heli with 30mm HE cannon instead of dual HMGs:

Seriously lose the 30mm HE cannon. It has been nerfed ages ago and the HMGs are much better vs aircraft.

Jet that seems to use 30mm instead of 25mm:

That is self explanatory. The 30mm is useless outside of  damaging tanks

Wildcat does does not seem to use its dual flak AA guns:

The Wildcat missiles are more of a filler and the main source of damage is the dual flak guns. If the driver has selected the 30mm or the 50mm then they are fools who do not understand what this vehicle is for and should switch to the RAM.

This is the dude that got you killed. He should had forced the hind to retreat

Jet 30-mm cannon is surprisingly good against transport choppers (and completely useless vs night birds), just need lead shots by a lot because of ridiculously slow travel time. Have been using the 30-mm more lately - the it might actually have a better ttk when you actually hit your shots 

@Metal_Daryl97In my humble opinion the GAU 30mm is too specialized for heavy armor for general usage.
Of course if you are a good pilot it should work. The jet pilot at the video was definitely not very skilled just like the wildcat driver. Only the OP did well enough all things considered.

Flying battleships which endlessly farm infantry and cannot be countered - check

Lots of anti-air options, but none actually work - check

Pilots who site the anti-air options that flying battleships are working as intended - check (also, see above)

Watching team mates no longer PTO because of the flying battleships - check

Exit game, hoping to find one that I can actually PTO - check

I try and ignore as much as possible and just enjoy the game even with the farming, but some games are simply unplayable and frankly a waste of my time in doing so.

I hope this changes and there is some fair balance considered.

@ATFGunryeah, a lot of the "transport" guns should be smoke launchers.

They would add a new layer of strategy too

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@UP_Hawxxeye wrote:

@ATFGunryeah, a lot of the "transport" guns should be smoke launchers.

They would add a new layer of strategy too

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I think we'd be more likely to end up with smoke spam than strategy with that proposal.  At least among randoms.

@UP_Hawxxeye

https://youtu.be/hTiwS3STNI8

Few clips from recent games

The 30mm is actually decent against most air vehicles but ironically, I don't think it performs adequately well against ground targets. Needs a slight buff - faster projectile vel + tighter spread + more damage per shot against all vehicles, especially small agile vehicles like the nightbird 

Okay my dude, this is not the way to kill hind. You were locking him, wasting only time, you were escaping, wasting only time. Same goes for jet, it didn't even shoot, only tried to lock. And no 30mm is not good against hind especially on long ranges. What you forgot is that you have stealth and need gunner for it, emp and with machine gun pods you deal greater damage, also for long distance mg are better and doesn't overheat so quick. Sorry that video only showed your and ur teammates unskill moves. Best part is, No1 even almost did any damage hind.

Edit: Also you were at some point on top of him, you had good chance to damage him and even try to bomb him, instead that you chose to lock. And fixed some grammar.

Don't worry gang. I have it on good authority the person at DICE who can make this nerf call has just about completed their T1 mastery on Hind. Should just be a few more weeks and it will get adjusted properly.