Dice need to pull out the stop-watch here and meassure times here. Example here - Rao hack chopper - this take some time - chopper launch flares instantly and start to fly away. I instantly pull out stinger and wait to be able to lock (many waves of flares here). When I finally get lock and fire missile - just before it hits - new wave of flares from chopper. This is NOT ok and then reload time is way too short. Also I assume that flares is indefinte. It also takes some time to get a lock from stinger and hack last around 10 seconds - this does not add up here !On one server I saw a little bird outfly a stinger - eh ok - looked it up Little bird is 282 km/h and stinger is around 2.400 km/h so no way this is possible - unless hack of course - also only saw this on one server.Then the thing with real life flares - it is NOT a 100 % countermeassure thing - it is a launch and hope for the best - evade / dodge and get out of harms way. Here it is like - I give a * - I continue my path since no one can kill me - no lock no nothing - c'mon !Even the combo Soflam / recoils is fooled by flares ! Make flares like 70-30 % or at least make it so that you can still get a lock. Never heard of a stinger not being able to get a lock just because a flare is in the air - choppers dominate game way too much and fear nothing unless you hit them with recoils or tanks.I hack choppers like crazy using Rao and if lucky I manage to get one single stinger in that only scratch the painting of. Perhaps Rao is not meant to be the one also shooting at choppers but only hack them for others - I do not know - but flare reload time needs to be increased or amount of waves reduced as it was when game launched = one wave only.

As much as I hate the helicopters, too... Simply no. From a gameplay perspective, it makes no sense to give the flares a chance to fail. You can not rely on it, it will just create frustration. As if your gun will jam from time to time... Maybe realistic but does not increase the fun. The timing between flares and the stinger is Long enough to hit two rockets if you are quick enough with aiming. So either what happened to you was a bug (possible), or it is not true. I made videos myself, when helicopters used flares even when they were hacked, so the bug thing is not impossible.And the only vehicle, which has a speed near the stinger is the Condor with boost, never saw a Little Bird with that speed. As I mentioned, I think the balancing of the helicopters could be improved, I disagree with your opinion.

@S3SSioN_SoL wrote:@Col_Larsen Just because you hacked a Heli or are targeting it with a Stinger/SOFLAM doesn't mean you should get a free kill.Flares have always offered survival in Battlefield. The whole point of using a Stinger or SOFLAM is to force the aircraft to use their Flares so that someone else can get their Stinger or Anti Air Missile off to kill it. Perhaps the anti-air tank or the Jet or Attack Heli, maybe another Stinger on the other side of the map.One person should not be enough to destroy a vehicle unless it's C5 or Mines. The problem is the amount of tools present for infantry to deal with aircraft, there's no AA emplacements, no AA mines etc.An attack vehicle is meant to be a force multiplier. It's meant to take teamplay to destroy it."Just because you chose a specialist that shuts down vehicles and a gadget to do damage to vehicles and engage in the designed combo to do damage to vehicles doesn't mean you should do damage to vehicles" watYou force flares and...the helicopter ain't hanging around in the battlespace waiting to get picked off by others unless they're a smoothbrain. They're getting out of dodge while they have lockon immunity and finding 1-2 trees to hide behind because even a few branches can break a lock. And they can do this FOREVER given how maps are designed, especially on Breakthrough mode where they have major areas of the map where they have complete and total protection and the enemy can't get near it.Should one person destroy a vehicle with rockets? No, and I don't think OP is saying that. But you should be able to do more than just force vehicles to blow flares and then return and repeat. You should be able to meaningfully pressure them so that unless they've got some repair monkeys on board to help out that they need to actually spend more than just the timer for their flare cooldown off the battlefield.Yes, teamplay should be required, but that's not even the case now. Short of getting a bunch of Liz's together, any competent pilot is going to be next to impossible to down from the ground.

@UP_Hawxxeye wrote:Your attack forced the target to use their flares.This makes them an easy target for your own teams aircraft.Aircraft being the only effective counter for aircraft is pretty terrible, dude. Especially for things like Breakthrough where one side has access to aircraft for much of the match while the other doesn't. It's also the only "class" (ground vehicles, infantry, air vehicles) where its primary counter is itself. This is not true for infantry or ground vehicles.

@Col_Larsen Just because you hacked a Heli or are targeting it with a Stinger/SOFLAM doesn't mean you should get a free kill.Flares have always offered survival in Battlefield. The whole point of using a Stinger or SOFLAM is to force the aircraft to use their Flares so that someone else can get their Stinger or Anti Air Missile off to kill it. Perhaps the anti-air tank or the Jet or Attack Heli, maybe another Stinger on the other side of the map.One person should not be enough to destroy a vehicle unless it's C5 or Mines. The problem is the amount of tools present for infantry to deal with aircraft, there's no AA emplacements, no AA mines etc.An attack vehicle is meant to be a force multiplier. It's meant to take teamplay to destroy it.

Flares aren’t 100%! It’s not realistic! Says the man that plays an operator that can “hack” state of the art vehicles with his little iPad in a few seconds. Remove Rao from the game if anything.

Stingers vs flares vs reload times - something is way off here !

50 Replies

S3SSioN_SoL
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago
@Col_Larsen Just because you hacked a Heli or are targeting it with a Stinger/SOFLAM doesn't mean you should get a free kill.

Flares have always offered survival in Battlefield. The whole point of using a Stinger or SOFLAM is to force the aircraft to use their Flares so that someone else can get their Stinger or Anti Air Missile off to kill it. Perhaps the anti-air tank or the Jet or Attack Heli, maybe another Stinger on the other side of the map.

One person should not be enough to destroy a vehicle unless it's C5 or Mines. The problem is the amount of tools present for infantry to deal with aircraft, there's no AA emplacements, no AA mines etc.

An attack vehicle is meant to be a force multiplier. It's meant to take teamplay to destroy it.
Captain_Tachi
3 years ago
As much as I hate the helicopters, too... Simply no. From a gameplay perspective, it makes no sense to give the flares a chance to fail. You can not rely on it, it will just create frustration. As if your gun will jam from time to time... Maybe realistic but does not increase the fun.
The timing between flares and the stinger is Long enough to hit two rockets if you are quick enough with aiming. So either what happened to you was a bug (possible), or it is not true. I made videos myself, when helicopters used flares even when they were hacked, so the bug thing is not impossible.
And the only vehicle, which has a speed near the stinger is the Condor with boost, never saw a Little Bird with that speed.
As I mentioned, I think the balancing of the helicopters could be improved, I disagree with your opinion.
CPT_GASLIGHT
3 years ago
Flares aren’t 100%! It’s not realistic! Says the man that plays an operator that can “hack” state of the art vehicles with his little iPad in a few seconds. Remove Rao from the game if anything.
UP_Hawxxeye
Legend
3 years ago
Your attack forced the target to use their flares.
This makes them an easy target for your own teams aircraft.
Col_Larsen
New Ace
3 years ago
@CPT_GASLIGHT I agree on that part - Rao is desperate attempt to just do something to stealth choppers that has both flares and stealth. No hack - no stinger lock at all. No soldier - nor any vehicle should be without risk against. Soldier here we have bullets and vehicles. Tanks we have recoils, mines etc - choppers here we have - other choppers and the AA car and nothing more. Stinger is useless because of lock time + flares and then the damage it does. Hitting a chopper from distance in flight with recoils is pure luck.
Col_Larsen
New Ace
3 years ago
@Captain_Tachi you cannot decrease time stinger lock - so you can aim quick all you want it still takes whatever amount of time to lock - a person in view - interrupts - even some branches from tree kills your lock attempt - so no way you can get 2 rockets in before flares launch again ! Btw I do not tell lies here - Little Bird was faster than stinger on that map / that guy only - could be hacker - no clue. I kind of agree on the flare part - so lets say it is 100 % - then reload time should be fixed. Flares on Little bird - fly behind building and 5 sec later you are ready with flares again - that is way too soon... and one stinger in a Little Bird = instant kill !
Tank2042Man
3 years ago
@Col_Larsen wrote:
@CPT_GASLIGHTI agree on that part - Rao is desperate attempt to just do something to stealth choppers that has both flares and stealth. No hack - no stinger lock at all. No soldier - nor any vehicle should be without risk against. Soldier here we have bullets and vehicles. Tanks we have recoils, mines etc - choppers here we have - other choppers and the AA car and nothing more. Stinger is useless because of lock time + flares and then the damage it does. Hitting a chopper from distance in flight with recoils is pure luck.
Stealth was balanced by people with zero idea about vehicle balance or deliberately wanted to break vehicle balance so that's a bad example to use.
edgecrusherO0
3 years ago
@S3SSioN_SoL wrote:
@Col_Larsen Just because you hacked a Heli or are targeting it with a Stinger/SOFLAM doesn't mean you should get a free kill.

Flares have always offered survival in Battlefield. The whole point of using a Stinger or SOFLAM is to force the aircraft to use their Flares so that someone else can get their Stinger or Anti Air Missile off to kill it. Perhaps the anti-air tank or the Jet or Attack Heli, maybe another Stinger on the other side of the map.

One person should not be enough to destroy a vehicle unless it's C5 or Mines. The problem is the amount of tools present for infantry to deal with aircraft, there's no AA emplacements, no AA mines etc.

An attack vehicle is meant to be a force multiplier. It's meant to take teamplay to destroy it.
"Just because you chose a specialist that shuts down vehicles and a gadget to do damage to vehicles and engage in the designed combo to do damage to vehicles doesn't mean you should do damage to vehicles" wat
You force flares and...the helicopter ain't hanging around in the battlespace waiting to get picked off by others unless they're a smoothbrain. They're getting out of dodge while they have lockon immunity and finding 1-2 trees to hide behind because even a few branches can break a lock. And they can do this FOREVER given how maps are designed, especially on Breakthrough mode where they have major areas of the map where they have complete and total protection and the enemy can't get near it.
Should one person destroy a vehicle with rockets? No, and I don't think OP is saying that. But you should be able to do more than just force vehicles to blow flares and then return and repeat. You should be able to meaningfully pressure them so that unless they've got some repair monkeys on board to help out that they need to actually spend more than just the timer for their flare cooldown off the battlefield.
Yes, teamplay should be required, but that's not even the case now. Short of getting a bunch of Liz's together, any competent pilot is going to be next to impossible to down from the ground.
edgecrusherO0
3 years ago
@UP_Hawxxeye wrote:
Your attack forced the target to use their flares.
This makes them an easy target for your own teams aircraft.
Aircraft being the only effective counter for aircraft is pretty terrible, dude. Especially for things like Breakthrough where one side has access to aircraft for much of the match while the other doesn't. It's also the only "class" (ground vehicles, infantry, air vehicles) where its primary counter is itself. This is not true for infantry or ground vehicles.
Captain_Tachi
3 years ago
@Col_Larsen it is possible, when the pilot is not very good... Or overextended. It happens, but is very rare. But it shows, that there is enough time.
I agree with you, that the target lock is frustrating (because some leaf is in the way or someone jumped out of the helicopter or sometimes just without any reason), but if it would work better (for example like Rao's hack... This one has been improved significantly!), it would be very easy and would not reward the skill of the pilot, as he has often to fly very low (yes, skill is needed). It would be the wrong way to punish the pilots in this way.
What I agree would be the combination of Soflam + Rocket launcher for example to lock on the target while flares are active (flares can and should distract the rocket, but not the lock! And so should it help against stealth), this way, teamplay would be rewarded on the other hand. Other way would be to limit the flares, as the rockets are limited, too... But then we would need a way to restock them. I think DICE knows the issues with the helicopters but I believe, they don't know how to balance them either, they are flawed by design and it is hard to balance them without making them immortal or useless.